Difference: 38 Super v. 38 Special?

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blindpig

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I'm new to gun ownership. I currently have a S&W 686-6+ .357 and will take possession of a Model 60 .357 soon. I get a kick out of purchasing ammunition on line. I recently purchased a case of 38 Super thinking it would work in the 686. When the 38 Super ammo arrived, I noticed it was shorter than the typical 38 Special round. The 38 Super will fit into the cylinder of the 686 (I tried), but I haven't fired the 38 Super from the 686. These are my questions:

1. Is it safe to shoot a 38 Super round from my S&W 686-6+ .357?

2. What are the differences between a 38 Super and 38 Special round?
 
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I have fired .38 Super in a .357 Mag. The semi rim of the auto cartridge will headspace the cartdidge in the chamber. If it will chamber, it will fire.
The .38 Super is a semiautomatic pistol cartridge, the .38 Spl is a revolver cartridge. The Super is a little hotter than the Spl, in fact a little hotter than the 9mm.
 
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"If it will chamber, it will fire."

That's flawed advise. Surely you can think of a number of cartridges that would be a really bad mix though they will chamber in another arm not meant for them.

Don't do this at home kiddies.
 
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The 357 Mag is a thinner walled case than the 38 super. The magnum has an average OD of .379" and an ID of .358". The rim is .060" thick and .440" wide.

The Super is also a straight walled case with an OD of .384" and an ID of .384". The semi rim is .050" thick and just .406" in diameter.

The bullet is .003" smaller in OD in the Super than it is in the Magnum.
The Super is also much shorter.

So - this all tells me that with a larger OD of .005" some .357 Mags might not even chamber the slightly larger Super.

If you do chamber it, the rim thickness will allow the primer to be .010" farther away from the firing pin. The rim is also .034" smaller in diameter (.017" on each side of center)

So those are the differences in dimentions ... the .357 Magnum has a maximum chamber pressure of 44,000 psi .vs only 36,500 psi for the 38 Super. So - a firearm designed for the magnum, should easily handle the lighter 38 Super.

There - now that is all out of the way .... Conventional wisdom says that you should only ever shoot ammunition that is specifically designed for that firearm. There are some exceptions; shooting 38 Special from a .357 Magnum is fine, as is 44 Special from a 44 Magnum, and there may be others. But it is pretty common in the firearms world to accept that shooting ammo other than that is designed for the firearm can lead to unexpected consequences.

Were it me, I think that I would just go out and buy a 38 Super (now that I have all the ammo) :) ......... Barring that, I would just sell the 38 super ammo and buy some .38 Special, or some .357 Magnum ammo.
 
Typically when this question comes up on this or other forums someone will post that it will not work because the .38 Super is a tapered case (wrong) or because it has no rim (wrong).

Two brands of modern factory .38 Super ammo will chamber in most modern (1985 forward) S&W .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolvers: Winchester and Magtech. Within Winchester, both the 125 grain Silvertip and the 130 grain FMJ will chamber. The same is true of some Colt's, like the Python. Other ammo brands I have tried, such as Remington, UMC, Federal, Armscor, Corbon, Fiocchi, PMC, and Aguila will usually not chamber.

I have fired .38 Super out of .357 Magnum revolvers, and it works fine, accuracy is not degraded, extraction is no problem. I'm not recommending it for everybody else, but it as stated above it has worked fine for me. Note the headstamps pictured below...

368595821.jpg
 
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Thank you

Thanks for all of your input.

I'm not going to jeopardize my well being for a couple of bucks.

If ammo were in short supply and I were being overrun by zombies, I wouldn't hesitate using 38 super in my 686.:D

However, since there isn't a zombie in site, and I have several cases of 38 special and 357 at my disposal, the 38 super will be sold.

Now, to figure out how to post pictures...:confused:

Again, thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience.
 
Thanks for this thread. I bought 38 super too. I had a python in 1973 which I fired 38's through but was stolen. I bought the SW 327 8 shot and bought a case of pmc 38 super+ which is tight. Oh well, ill sell the 38 super+ i guess. thanks again.
 
M2MikeGolf said:
You could just make it all an excuse to go out and buy a cool lookin' old world Colt Government model chambered for it and pretend you're a G-man from the 20s knockin' down gangsters instead of all that zombie nonsense. Just a thought. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That's what I would do!
 
blindpig said:
I'm new to gun ownership. I currently have a S&W 686-6+ .357 and will take possession of a Model 60 .357 soon. I get a kick out of purchasing ammunition on line. I recently purchased a case of 38 Super thinking it would work in the 686. When the 38 Super ammo arrived, I noticed it was shorter than the typical 38 Special round. The 38 Super will fit into the cylinder of the 686 (I tried), but I haven't fired the 38 Super from the 686. These are my questions:

1. Is it safe to shoot a 38 Super round from my S&W 686-6+ .357?

2. What are the differences between a 38 Super and 38 Special round?
Click to expand...

38 Super is a relatively high pressure auto cartridge, while 38 Special is a black powder era lower pressure revolver cartridge.

38 Super, on the one hand and .357 Magnum/38 Special, on the other hand, are not interchangeable. Period.

Some will say they have fired 38 Super in their .357 Magnums. Just because you CAN do a thing does not mean you SHOULD do a thing.

The only ammunition you should fire in your revolver is what is recommended in the OWNER'S MANUAL. Thus, you can fire .357 Magnum and all varieties of 38 Special, including +Ps.

What to do with your 38 Super ammo? Buy a Colt 38 Super auto pistol and have fun. :)
 
DON'T DO IT! Return the ammo if they'll do it. If not, swap a buddy for the correct ammo. You made the wisest possible choice choosing the 357mag. You can fire ALL 38spl and 357mag loads. You don't need to try firing the 38 super in your guns.
 
There is significant pressure differences between the .38 super auto now usually called the .38 super auto +P to distinguish ist from the older .38 auto which was the same cartridge dimensions but for earlier guns chambered for the lower pressure cartridge.

SAAMI maximum pressures for the cartridges in PSI are as follows:
38 Auto 26,500
38 Special 17,000
38 Special +P 18,500
38 Super Auto +P 36,500
357 Mag 35,000

As can be seen the maximum pressure of the .38 auto is a full 7,500 psi higher than the .38 spl +P. The .38 Super Auto +P is 1,500 psi greater than the .357 mag.

While the .38 Super Auto +P will fire from your .357 mag revolver it is a higher pressure round though not likely to cause a catastrophic failure in a magnum hangun.

None of the .38 "auto" cartridges should be shot out of a .38 special standard or +P as the pressure difference is too much for assured safety.
 
I'm in the go out and get yourself a 38 Super camp. Its like a legitimate excuse for buying a new gun. :D
I'm a huge fan of the Super myself. If you decide to sell, send me a PM. Depending on what you have, price and shipping, we might do business. ;)
 
I have fired considerable quantities of .38 Super ammunition in a .357 with no problem. And it seems somewhat milder than firing .357 ammunition. However, some brands of .38 Super ammunition will chamber OK, others will not fit. I seem to remember PMC and Winchester would fit, but Remington would not. I wouldn't use it in a .38 Special revolver, but there should be no problem (aside from the slightly smaller .38 bullet diameter) in shooting .38 Super ammunition that fits in a .357 revolver. Seems I remember someone selling a revolver at one time that was advertised as being capable of shooting anything between .380 ACP and .357 Magnum, including .38 Super.
 
Let me point out something that others have mentioned. Firing cartridges in chambers not designed for them can result in catastrophic failure and injury. SAAMI pressures are based on firing a cartridge in the chamber designed for it, so that's not a good basis if you are talking about firing the cartridge in a different chamber than what it's tested in. I am not familiar with the chamber dimensions of the .38 super vs. .38 spl/.357 Magnum, and it is possible that it is close enough to .38 Spl/.357, however, unless I had an expert on both to tell me that they are close enough to be interchangeble, I simply wouldn't do it.

We Americans have a tendancy to get cartridge confused with caliber. .357 Magnum is a cartridge, .357 is a caliber. It appears that the .38 Super (sometimes referred to as the .38 Super Automatic) is much like the 9x19 with caliber of .356. But bullet size isn't going to make it safe for a chamber, if you have excess space in a chamber, a weaker cartridge can develop enough pressure to blow up a stronger cartridge's chamber. And here's another problem, it may work okay a few times, but one day, the metal will give. An good example is the M-1 Garand. Firing slow burning powder cartridges through it will eventually bend the operating rod and possibly allow the bolt to impact against the rear of the frame causing eventual catastrophy. The M-1 chamber itself is robust, but the gas system is not and was designed for certain loads to be fired through it. Same for a revolver or any weapon, just because it doesn't explode the first time, doesn't mean it won't eventually. The .38 Super was not based off the .38 Spl case like the .357 Magnum so that's a different design; it was designed based on the .38 ACP, a completely different cartridge, and it was certainly never designed to be fired in a revolver (chamber).

Not adhering to cartridge designs can have pretty severe results. I think most will agree that you should only fire ammuntion through firearms designed to fire it.

If it were me, an old Colt chambered in .38 super would be the answer; just having the ammunition would make me want one. :D
 
M2MikeGolf said:
You could just make it all an excuse to go out and buy a cool lookin' old world Colt Government model chambered for it and pretend you're a G-man from the 20s knockin' down gangsters instead of all that zombie nonsense. Just a thought. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

There you go. Outstanding advice.
 
I had a 4" 686 rechambered to .38 Super and also had the cylinder milled to accept moonclips. Works great. Someone has already pointed out the .38 Super has a larger OD than .357 cases, but the bullet specs are the opposite. The .38 Super takes .356" bullets vs. .357 for .38/.357 cartridges. These differences are immaterial if you shoot jacketed bullets. Lead bullets would require trial and error testing.

It is silly to fret about the minor difference in pressure for .38 Super vs. .357 Magnum. That's the kind of comment you get from 'armchair' shooters.
 
It is nice that some here were able to shoot .38 Super in a .357 cylinder with normal operation. But it doesn't always work that way. When I tried it, I got very hard extraction. So I quit.
 
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