Disappointed in S&W

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Sabre03 said:
I find the answer from S&W interesting and not what I have come to expect from US gun manufactures; here it is:

I purchased a new in the box, unfired, 1981 S&W Model 36 from a local gun store; the gun came in the mint original box will all documentation , even the 1981 warranty card. Anyway, I found that with a little pressure the cylinder would rotate clockwise when closed with the hammer down. I contact S&W customer service and explained the situation and they said they would "take care of it" and provide a shipping label to return the gun. Here is what the customer service representative sent me, fully aware of the date of manufacture:

Hello Mark,

I just put an order in for a pre-paid, pre-insured FedEx return label. Please allow around 5 business days for delivery. Please follow the instructions that will be included in the package. Include a letter with your contact information and a description of the issue. We stand behind our products and will make this right for you.

Regards, Steve
Customer Service
1-800-331-0852 Ext. 2905
Smith & Wesson


A few weeks later I get an invoice from S&W asking that I pay $83 to authorize the repair. I contacted them and the same guy that said he would take care of it now says that S&W did not offer a life time warranty until 1989 and since my gun was manufactured prior to that it wasn't covered. The interesting part is they admit that the gun is unfired and that the problem is cause by a manufactures defect.

I probably shouldn't have expected anything different, but having been a loyal S&W customer for 35 years and the owner of 13 of their handguns I was a little disappointed. I have come to expect American gun manufactures to stand behind their product and have had great luck with Colt, Ruger, Rock River and Weatherby.

Am I wrong to expect this level of customer service?
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I have to agree with XTrooper on this. In addition, they saved you about $40 by sending you a prepaid shipping label, which they did not have to do.
 
srgvaz said:
If you buy something new shouldn't it work right out of the box? With the lack of a return policy on a firearm shouldn't the factory/manufacture make it right? Even if the thing is/was thirty years old it's still called S&W and consumer policy states a company buys all debts, warranties, and future profits when buying out or into a company unless otherwise stated. I'm surprised allot of you guys tell the poster to eat the cost when in fact if it was one of our guns we would want the factory to do us right. The $80. is not unreasonable if you factor in what shipping costs are these days, but this is about principle and them backing up what's in writing on a NEW gun. Keep in mind this is an American multi-million dollar company that specializes in fixing/repairing their own recent products. If it were me I would of used what the rep told me over the phone when sending me a return label and I would get it fixed for FREE. YOU all should know once a company starts charging to fix what was once free the price will eventually go up and it will eventually be charged to everyone. If this company is in fear that it's repair overhead will hurt their bottom-line then perhaps they should focus on the quality of their current products. :)
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This was not a new gun! This was a 30 year old USED gun in NIB condition. DO you not see the difference here?
 
This may seem unusual to some, but if I made that purchase the first thing I would have done, was go on line to the S&W site and register my new firearm for the included warranty.. Even though it was a 30 year old unfired brand new firearm, then I would have contacted S&W about my problem.

These manufacturers were mentioned in this post, Colt, Ruger, Rock River and Weatherby.

I wonder how these manufacturers would have treated the same scenario?
 
no dash said:
This was not a new gun! This was a 30 year old USED gun in NIB condition. DO you not see the difference here?
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Not really...This is a Smith & Wesson, a name that once stood for something: Quality with Pride of Ownership...We're not talking about a Jimenez, Jennings, et al...This just shows me they have gone down the tube...
 
Big Foot said:
Not really...This is a Smith & Wesson, a name that once stood for something: Quality with Pride of Ownership...We're not talking about a Jimenez, Jennings, et al...This just shows me they have gone down the tube...
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So when did it stand for something? Did it stand for something 30 years ago when it sent a broken gun out? Did it stand for something decades ago when it didn't stand by its products with a lifetime policy? It's largely the same great company it's always been.

All this is good ol' days BS. People, companies, life wasn't any better back then. We haven't changed much in a century or two, and if we have the sociologic evidence points to improvement.
 
I guess some of you "just don't get it". They just lost me as a customer where I was all set to purchase a revolver, the Governor model...Now, not sure what the profit margin are on their guns, but must be $83 or more and keeping their production line and workers with a paycheck...The OP's rendition of what happened left me with a sour-stomach....Sorry, my opinion and my wallet...
 
Big Foot said:
I guess some of you "just don't get it". They just lost me as a customer where I was all set to purchase a revolver, the Governor model...Now, not sure what the profit margin are on their guns, but must be $83 or more and keeping their production line and workers with a paycheck...The OP's rendition of what happened left me with a sour-stomach....Sorry, my opinion and my wallet...
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and we've got ours...... I'll be picking up my new PC S&W500 Bone Collector today at the Smith & Wesson Retail Store. While there I will be checking out the new Governhor in the show case... I got to handle it last week when they were setting up the showcase... very nice, hope to purchase one of those too.. :)
 
I don't see it as a case of S&W should fix the man's gun because they want to be Mr. nice guy(s).

What I think it is, is that S&W should fix the guys gun because it is best for S&W.

I believe that they have lost more in sales, right here in this very thread, than it would have cost them to fix a gun that obviously was defective right out of the box.

That, to me, is poor management policy.:(
 
When a thread gets long like this, why do people start saying that they wish it would stop?

All you gotta do, if you are tired of a thread, is quit opening it and reading the posts....:confused:
 
redhawk444 said:
When a thread gets long like this, why do people start saying that they wish it would stop?

All you gotta do, if you are tired of a thread, is quit opening it and reading the posts....:confused:
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because once the topic has been exhausted the only things left to talk about usually end up starting a fight and lord knows that keeping up with a good, ragin' flame war is a giant time suck :D
 
Bone Collector SW500

ExMachina1 said:
because once the topic has been exhausted the only things left to talk about usually end up starting a fight and lord knows that keeping up with a good, ragin' flame war is a giant time suck :D
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Ok, lets keep it going...... how bout we turn a little to the right and I'll show you my Performance Center gun I just picked up ,, about 2 hours ago.... :D This picture was taken in the S&W show room. Not sure, but maybe someone can tell me if that's a MIM or forged trigger... :) By the way, it's the Bone Collector SW500

BoneCollector.jpg


And here's a picture in one of the cases of several PC guns... in the background is the counter where you rent guns and behind that is the shooting range.. where you can test fire any of the S&W guns...

ProSeries.jpg


The last picture is of the Governor... one of the guns in my future, when and if it becomes legal in Mass.. But I think my next gun may be a 686.. I think the picture above, of the PC guns, may be the one top right... enjoy guys.. for you true S&W fans.. I'm a lucky guy... for you few haters... what can I say, we love ya still .. :)

TheGovernor.jpg


This is where I get to spent my lunchtime or any other time I can get away.... I'll be up there tonite target shooting with my wife, she'll be shooting her Mosquito-22lr, MP9c and her MP15-22, I'll be shooting my M&P40c-sig357barrel and my new M60-pro... should be fun... just a little practice and play.. take the edge off after a long weekend.. :D
 
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I will keep buying S&W weapons because i like them your incident will have no bearing on what i do,but i would have paid the 83 dollars and enjoyed the gun.
 
Add me to the list that they should be willing to fix a manufacturers defect.

That being said, and please don't think that I'm trying to be rude to you, if I were you, I'd be counting the repair price as the price paid for not thoroughly inspecting a pre-owned gun before buying it. That seems like a problem that would have been easily detected by even a cursory inspection.

I'd call it even.
 
I think they should just fix the darn thing in this instance.

They fixed my Elmer Keith commemorative and didn't charge me a dime. It was not the same problem (but a similar type of situation). The cylinders were messed up and it couldn't chamber all 6 cartridges without jamming up. It was bought ANIB - unfired.

The customer service is the biggest plus for s&w in my book. I hope they never lose sight of that. As long as they don't I'll be buying new and used Smiths as long as God allows me to breath down here.

I've had great service on that instance and others.
 
I'm with redhawk444.
I get a kick out of the posters who are tired of reading posts on threads and/or have had their say, and call for an end, so from that point forward, everyone else should have realized how tired they were of this and just gone home, because the forum police have spoken (so to type). Do you guys pick straws secretly, or do you get a sash and a paper hat, too, to go with your authority? Just sayin... :). It's all right with me if you call for a halt.

I also agree with sabre03.
Real simple to me.
The revolver is defective; S&W admitted it.
S&W said they would "take care of it". Sabre relied on that when he shipped them back the revolver. When I'm out at a restaurant, the bill arrives, and I say "I'll take care of it" and any of you were also at the table, would you then ask "OK, thanks, how much of a bill will be left after you've taken care of it?" I'll give you a hint (the answer is $0.00).

In general, I like some healthy carping. If S&W's repair service was going down the tubes, and "you" (you know who you are) choir boys are still singing nothing but their praises, it'd be a real disappointment, though I guess I'd expect it from those of their stockholders, here.

Sabre03, carp all you want.

As an aside, I think S&Ws repair charges are eminently reasonable, in those instances in which the repairs are performed correctly.

Oh, BTW, we can close this thread, now :D.
 
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S&W said they would "take care of it". Sabre relied on that when he shipped them back the revolver. When I'm out at a restaurant, the bill arrives, and I say "I'll take care of it" and any of you were also at the table, would you then ask "OK, thanks, how much of a bill will be left after you've taken care of it?" I'll give you a hint (the answer is $0.00).
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recently, i had a plumber over looking at some work that needed to be done and after discussing the job's feasibility and the timing of the work, he said in a very confident voice "i'll take care of it all".

that phrase has more than one meaning.
 
ExMachina1,

From the e-mail in the first post:
"We stand behind our products and will make this right for you. "
A guy can get a revolver repaired at (anymore, far too few :() other places for money, and no one expects them "to stand behind our products" because they aren't their products, they're S&Ws products. But if I had a repair performed by a gunsmith, the repair was defective, and I brought it back to the smithie and was told "I'll take care of it", I'd be ripped to find an invoice demanding money attached to my handgun when I went back to pick it up.

Contextually, IMO your plumber's story is right on with respect to the phrase "I'll take care of it", meaning the repair or improvement only, and that you might not have to pay for the plumber's time and materials should never have entered your mind. I don't imply that it did, only that we agree that the thought would have been out of place in relation to that portion of your negotiations. Not so, IMO, in Sabre03's case. I'm contemplating product liability as well as the rep's statements made, not warranty. Product liability has no termination date that I'm aware of; poor example or no, I view this as a reason that Ruger stuffs the newer transfer bar lockwork on every OM single six they can get their hands on- at no charge. Admittedly, the Ruger example arises from safety considerations, but product liability encompasses more than just safety, among other things, the product must function properly. IMO S&W owes him a credit on his card for the $83, for the reasons of product liability and representations (statements) made.

That's all I got :).
 
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1x2 said:
ExMachina1,

From the e-mail in the first post:
"We stand behind our products and will make this right for you. "
A guy can get a revolver repaired at (anymore, far too few :() other places for money, and no one expects them "to stand behind our products" because they aren't their products, they're S&Ws products. But if I had a repair performed by a gunsmith, the repair was defective, and I brought it back to the smithie and was told "I'll take care of it", I'd be ripped to find an invoice demanding money attached to my handgun when I went back to pick it up.

Contextually, your plumber's story is right on, and that you might not have to pay for the plumber's time and materials should never have entered your mind. Not so, in Sabre03's case. I'm contemplating product liability as well as the rep's statements made, not warranty. Product liability has no termination date that I'm aware of; poor example or no, I view this as a reason Ruger stuffs the newer transfer bar lockwork on every single six they can get their hands on- at no charge. IMO S&W owes him a $83 credit on his card.
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if you look at the first post, you'll notice that the original message from S&W was sent to the OP without S&W ever having seen the gun. moreover, the OP originally described the gun to S&W as being "new," even though it was pre-owned.

there are plenty of examples in the previous pages of how the buyer of a new gun (or a new anything) have the primary responsibility of notifying the manufacturer of defects in a reasonable amount of time.

here the original purchaser (who ever that was; there could have been ten previous owners for all we know) did not uphold his responsibility by requesting that S&W fix the problem. now, 30 years after the fact, I think S&W is not being unreasonable in charging the current owner for a repair that may very well have been much easier and cheaper for S&W to do 30 years ago.

so you and i disagree as to whether or not the OP was entitled to a free repair. what i think all of us agree on is that a free repair could certainly only help S&W's public image.
 
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new or not the gun is 30 years old. go buy a car, put it in your garage for 30 years then try and get the manufacturer to cover the repairs it would need, they would tell u to go pound rock salt. fix the thing or don't but don't blame smith for not covering a gun built 8 years before their lifetime warranty.
 
Trippy said:
new or not the gun is 30 years old. go buy a car, put it in your garage for 30 years then try and get the manufacturer to cover the repairs it would need, they would tell u to go pound rock salt. fix the thing or don't but don't blame smith for not covering a gun built 8 years before their lifetime warranty.
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I've never heard of any "car" having a lifetime warranty however they do have XX- years or XX- miles. Be realistic here a manufacturing defect on any NEW unfired gun should be covered by the manufacture or some warranty unless the manufacture no longer exists. Everyone is entitled to their opinion here but some folks just can't think realistically. ;)
 
srgvaz said:
I've never heard of any "car" having a lifetime warranty however they do have XX- years or XX- miles. Be realistic here a manufacturing defect on any NEW unfired gun should be covered by the manufacture or some warranty unless the manufacture no longer exists. Everyone is entitled to their opinion here but some folks just can't think realistically. ;)
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People seem to keep going back to this "manufacturing defect" ... I have not seen one bit of evidence showing anyone from S&W said it was a "manufacturing defect" other than the OP saying it... IT'S A USED 30 YEAR OLD GUN... PERIOD.. WITHOUT A WARRANTY.
 
Hmmm not.... actually I own a small business and have had situations similar to this one, had a product picked up and returned to me, only to find out it wasn't what it was said it was... oh ya.. and I've dealt with customers with your mentality too... makes me want to flip hamburgers at Mickey D's...

Oh ya... there was no bait and switch here, you really ought to refrain from using words to attempt to make Smith look like some criminal element trying to make $20... it wasn't about the money for them, just a procedural ruling that because of the internet has been given a life that just isn't right or fair to a fine company.
 
Want to bet that EVERYONE of the posts/posters that say, "this has left a bad feeling" or "now I'm not going to buy a Smith" will fall by the wayside upon seeing the next model that catches their eye at a price they want?

Takers? :)

C'mon...it's the S&W FORUM for goodness sake.

Personally, I think they should have taken the gun back and given the OP a brand new 1981 model 36 to replace it. And...they should have had it personally delivered by the Swedish bikini team, sans bikini's, in an effort to make sure their internet presence was properly represented. With a nice keg of cold brewsky to boot. THAT would have been "taking care of it" no? :)
 
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