Disappointed in S&W

[PDL]

OK, everone seems to be in agreement with one side or the other. As far as I can see the only irritating part in the OP's mind is the CS rep saying they'd take care of it.

What I'd like to know from the OP is:

Well, that's kind of an open ended phrase. Did he say they'd take care of it for free?

But regardless of that. What would have been your response if he told you up front that you'd have to pay the $80+?

Oh, forgot to say - Welcome to the forum. You'll find that most threads generally don't get this contencious

 

[PDL]

I went back and re-read your first post. I don't see anywhere in the whole thread where you've contacted the seller regarding this situation. If, as you say he's a LGS, I'd think he might want some repeat business. He may want to do his part of good CS and remedy the defective gun he sold you.

 

[Sabre03]

PDL, in the middle of the very first post I cut and pasted the actual email from the S&W service rep the exact phrase used by him was "We stand behind our products and will make this right for you."

Does that use the word free....no it sure doesn't, but it is as close as you can get without saying free.

As I have already posted I consider the fee minor and I paid it without hesitation once the service center gave me their final determination; I have also said that I agree that I am responsible for failure to properly inspect the weapon when I said that the buyer beware axiom applies. Although the cylinder does lock up properly on two of 5 cylinders and it does take a good bit of two finger pressure to cause the malfunction; given that I had never experienced this particular malfunction in my 35 years of shooting S&W revolvers I probably would have missed it in the store even if I had spent more than 5 minutes inspecting the firearm.

I have learned some things from this thread and it has changed my perception in some respect; however, I stand by my original assertion that the response from S&W is not what I have come to expect from American gun manufactures....right or wrong. But mostly it has been entertaining and some times that is good enough!

 

[srgvaz]

are you kidding me....

Yes, seriously. Next year lets say I purchase an 15-22 that was lost in the store's inventory from 09 and when I get to the range the extractor blows out after the first round the extractor ends up in someone's eye blinding them. Who's to blame? there was no recall but there was an issue with them?
There are several item that I can bring up here like toyota's, peanut butter, ext. Who gets the blame when those things go south --- the Toyota dealer-NO, The grocery store-NO Let just say the revolvers problem would of been push off from the factory and the first round killed someone then what? Would it of been to old to be S&W problem?
If what the poster states is true that it was a factory defect and it was unfired then they should stand behind their product. YES it's a good point that he bought an old gun and couldn't check it himself but you're not required to be a gunsmith to buy any gun, BUT why would you be required to fix A FACTORY DEFECT? YES, the dealer sold an old gun but there's no expiration date on them sure the poster should of gone to the dealer first with the issue but he did good and called customer service and they sent him a label.
In the past I've called S&W and they a mixed bag of apples when it comes to customer service. I've had items sent to me for free, and I've had to pay at other times. I've had great conversations with some and arguments with know it all's that no fringing idea what they were talking about. The ones that get me the most are the ones that attempt to answer your question BEFORE your finished speaking, and after your done speaking give you a different responses than the one there interrupting you with.
The warranty card on those old guns states free from factory defects, and there is no expiration date on those cards. Sure $80. is not allot of money these days BUT this is about principal "warranty".

 

[turbo38gn]

Nite guys, it was fun, time to sleep this one off.. been great chewing the fat here.. this horse is dead!!!

 

[blujax01]

Yes, seriously. Next year lets say I purchase an 15-22 that was lost in the store's inventory from 09 and when I get to the range the extractor blows out after the first round the extractor ends up in someone's eye blinding them. Who's to blame?.

Next year lets say I purchase an 15-22 that was lost in the store's inventory from 09 and the warranty states "Free from defects and will repair or replace at no cost for a period of three years from the date of the original purchase." When I get home the wife says to take it back or else. I sell it to a different LGS where it languishes in the back until 2039 when it is discovered and sold "as new".
The second hand purchaser gets to the range the extractor blows out after the first round the extractor ends up in someone's coffee. No one is hurt. Is Smith And Wesson liable to repair a 30 year old, second hand gun that is 27 years out of warranty?

THAT'S the OP's situation. Who, by the way, is getting a bit of a bad rap. This thread has become much larger than his scenario and I want to make it clear that I am not attacking him, just using his story as the springboard.

Listen, earlier this year I bought a brand new 2006 Model 64 with a 2" barrel. It was shipped to the armorer from S&W as part of a LEO order and sold to me as a new-old-stock sales overrun they found in the back room. This gun had been publicly advertised. A truly brand new, four year old gun with evidence that includes the packaging, the paperwork and the envelope and test fired case from the factory. I sent in the warranty card and retained my receipt. I do the same for lifetime warrantied trash cans. The burden of proof is on me and I accept that responsibility.
If anything goes wrong with either my gun or my trash can, I would expect it to be made right for free - forever because that was the deal from the manufacturer at the time the item was made.

 

[Engineer1911]

Maybe this is why S&W stock is not performing well inspite of incredible sales volume. Warranty repair costs are eating up the profits.

 

[Big Foot]

I contacted them and the same guy that said he would take care of it now says that S&W did not offer a life time warranty until 1989 and since my gun was manufactured prior to that it wasn't covered. The interesting part is they admit that the gun is unfired and that the problem is cause by a manufactures defect.

Am I wrong to expect this level of customer service?

No. I know most on this forum know more about guns then the law, but if this was taken to a Judge in a Small Claims Court; it would take a different slant. The Judge would read the claim, view the lawyer representing the defendent, look at the S&W attorney and say: "Are you kidding me!!! You admit to a factory defect that might have had serious repercussions regardless of the date of your warranty and you bring this to court. Take care of it!" Case closed...

 

[redhawk444]

I think Smith should have fixed the gun because it was unfired and obviously defective right out of the box.

Would they HAVE to fix it? Nooooo, but SHOULD they fix it? Yeesssss!

The reason is because a long established company like S&W depends on the general public's opinion of their integrity as an aid to sales.

I remember once reading that Sears Roebuck honored a voucher that had been issued some 50 years earlier......it was the best $2.50 Sears ever spent in terms of enhancing their image to the American consumer.

Too bad Smith doesn't understand things like that.

 

[gcarneal]

Factory Letter may help

The only fair way to put this to bed would be to get a factory letter on this gun.Make sure it was in-deed sold to a store for retail selling. This gun could have come from an unhappy employee at the factory.It didn't pass inspection and was on the way back to be worked on when it disappeared.Why has the gun sitting for thirty years without ever being fired? Who knows whats going on with this? Start with a little research. I'm sure alot of us would like to know the true history behind this story.

 

[luangtom]

It's run its course...

 

[ejjeff]

not quite !!!

 

[shawn mccarver]

I find the answer from S&W interesting and not what I have come to expect from US gun manufactures; here it is:

I purchased a new in the box, unfired, 1981 S&W Model 36 from a local gun store; the gun came in the mint original box will all documentation , even the 1981 warranty card. Anyway, I found that with a little pressure the cylinder would rotate clockwise when closed with the hammer down. I contact S&W customer service and explained the situation and they said they would "take care of it" and provide a shipping label to return the gun. Here is what the customer service representative sent me, fully aware of the date of manufacture:

Hello Mark,

I just put an order in for a pre-paid, pre-insured FedEx return label. Please allow around 5 business days for delivery. Please follow the instructions that will be included in the package. Include a letter with your contact information and a description of the issue. We stand behind our products and will make this right for you.

Regards, Steve
Customer Service
1-800-331-0852 Ext. 2905
Smith & Wesson


A few weeks later I get an invoice from S&W asking that I pay $83 to authorize the repair. I contacted them and the same guy that said he would take care of it now says that S&W did not offer a life time warranty until 1989 and since my gun was manufactured prior to that it wasn't covered. The interesting part is they admit that the gun is unfired and that the problem is cause by a manufactures defect.

I probably shouldn't have expected anything different, but having been a loyal S&W customer for 35 years and the owner of 13 of their handguns I was a little disappointed. I have come to expect American gun manufactures to stand behind their product and have had great luck with Colt, Ruger, Rock River and Weatherby.

Am I wrong to expect this level of customer service?

I have to agree with XTrooper on this. In addition, they saved you about $40 by sending you a prepaid shipping label, which they did not have to do.

 

[no dash]

If you buy something new shouldn't it work right out of the box? With the lack of a return policy on a firearm shouldn't the factory/manufacture make it right? Even if the thing is/was thirty years old it's still called S&W and consumer policy states a company buys all debts, warranties, and future profits when buying out or into a company unless otherwise stated. I'm surprised allot of you guys tell the poster to eat the cost when in fact if it was one of our guns we would want the factory to do us right. The $80. is not unreasonable if you factor in what shipping costs are these days, but this is about principle and them backing up what's in writing on a NEW gun. Keep in mind this is an American multi-million dollar company that specializes in fixing/repairing their own recent products. If it were me I would of used what the rep told me over the phone when sending me a return label and I would get it fixed for FREE. YOU all should know once a company starts charging to fix what was once free the price will eventually go up and it will eventually be charged to everyone. If this company is in fear that it's repair overhead will hurt their bottom-line then perhaps they should focus on the quality of their current products.

This was not a new gun! This was a 30 year old USED gun in NIB condition. DO you not see the difference here?

 

[labworm]

This may seem unusual to some, but if I made that purchase the first thing I would have done, was go on line to the S&W site and register my new firearm for the included warranty.. Even though it was a 30 year old unfired brand new firearm, then I would have contacted S&W about my problem.

These manufacturers were mentioned in this post, Colt, Ruger, Rock River and Weatherby.

I wonder how these manufacturers would have treated the same scenario?

 

[Big Foot]

This was not a new gun! This was a 30 year old USED gun in NIB condition. DO you not see the difference here?

Not really...This is a Smith & Wesson, a name that once stood for something: Quality with Pride of Ownership...We're not talking about a Jimenez, Jennings, et al...This just shows me they have gone down the tube...

 

[gr7070]

Not really...This is a Smith & Wesson, a name that once stood for something: Quality with Pride of Ownership...We're not talking about a Jimenez, Jennings, et al...This just shows me they have gone down the tube...

So when did it stand for something? Did it stand for something 30 years ago when it sent a broken gun out? Did it stand for something decades ago when it didn't stand by its products with a lifetime policy? It's largely the same great company it's always been.

All this is good ol' days BS. People, companies, life wasn't any better back then. We haven't changed much in a century or two, and if we have the sociologic evidence points to improvement.

 

[Big Foot]

I guess some of you "just don't get it". They just lost me as a customer where I was all set to purchase a revolver, the Governor model...Now, not sure what the profit margin are on their guns, but must be $83 or more and keeping their production line and workers with a paycheck...The OP's rendition of what happened left me with a sour-stomach....Sorry, my opinion and my wallet...

 

[turbo38gn]

I guess some of you "just don't get it". They just lost me as a customer where I was all set to purchase a revolver, the Governor model...Now, not sure what the profit margin are on their guns, but must be $83 or more and keeping their production line and workers with a paycheck...The OP's rendition of what happened left me with a sour-stomach....Sorry, my opinion and my wallet...

and we've got ours...... I'll be picking up my new PC S&W500 Bone Collector today at the Smith & Wesson Retail Store. While there I will be checking out the new Governhor in the show case... I got to handle it last week when they were setting up the showcase... very nice, hope to purchase one of those too..

 

[redhawk444]

I don't see it as a case of S&W should fix the man's gun because they want to be Mr. nice guy(s).

What I think it is, is that S&W should fix the guys gun because it is best for S&W.

I believe that they have lost more in sales, right here in this very thread, than it would have cost them to fix a gun that obviously was defective right out of the box.

That, to me, is poor management policy.