Do ANY police departments today still issue the .38 Spl. Model 10?

If I'm not mistaken (which has been known to happen :D), the Federal Protective Service still issues revolvers. I was in a Federal building in Boston a couple of weeks ago for an interview and the FPS officers on the door were all wearing revolvers. I think I saw three Rugers (GP100) and two SW Model 10/64. The FPS is charged with guarding Federal Buildings and Courthouses. The Federal Building in Honolulu, HI (I was living out there till last year) is protected by FPS armed with revolvers. I'm not sure what round they are issued, though I believe based on conversations with a couple of the guards that they use the "FBI load."
Doug

What you saw were contract security guards. We have them at my office building (federal) as well, although they recently transitioned from .38 revolvers to Sig P229's in 9mm. Actual FPS Officers, who are federal law enforcement officers, carry the Sig P229DAK in .40S&W. They transitioned from the SA/DA P229 in .357Sig when the (almost) entire Dept of Homeland Security went to the DAK .40. I did some range time with them during the transition. Secret Service is the only Homeland Security law enforcement entity that has not made the change. They stuck with the SA/DA P229 in .357Sig. As a Firearms Instructor for my agency, I end up providing qualifications for Agents from several different federal agencies, so I get to play with everybody's toys.

The last federal agencies I know to issue wheelguns were the US Marshal Service (they switched to the Glock 22 several years ago) and the US Bureau of Prisons (switched to Ruger semi-autos, I believe).

As to the original OP's question: I ran into a Police Officer from a small north Mississippi town at a training class early last summer. He had been issued a S&W Model 10 but was getting ready to purchase his own sidearm. He told me that he had been unable to afford to purchase his own when he was hired, so he had been issued one of the department's old wheelguns. I can't recall the name of the town, but I can check back on the class roster and see if I can come up with it. It was a tiny department with just a handful of officers.
Gonzo
 
Upon further reflection, I seem to recall that the Victoria, Australia Police Department issues the Model 10 revolver. There was a great deal of discussion about it on a law enforcement discussion forum a while back. The Police Union had cut a deal to replace the Model 10's with semi-autos following a shootout somewhere in Australia, but the local politicians blocked the change. Or something along those lines. Perhaps we have an Aussie member who could elaborate?
 
The problem in the Miami-Dade shootout was not that they used revolvers, but that they took handguns into a heavy artillary fight. It's shot placement that counts in the first place, in the second place, as you noted, policemen have faced killers even more deadly and heavily armed than those two guys such as Bonnie & Clyde, John Dillinger, Baby Face Nelson, Machinegun Kelly, Prettyboy Floyd (who were armed with even more effective weapons like the BAR or the 50 round Thompson). When police went after these guys, they used their .38s to shoot their way to their Thompsons, .30-30s, Shotguns or BARs and engaged with longguns if they didn't already have their longguns out and ready. (I.E. Texas Ranger Frank Hammer and his Louisiana possee made swiss cheese out of Bonnie & Clyde with BARs or Colt Monitors. Also, the FBI didn't go after Ma Barker and her boys with .38 Official Police revolvers alone they took Thompsons, shotguns, BARs)

I don't personally believe the gunfight would have turned out any different (maybe worse) if they had all been armed with .40 S&W high capacity automatics. It's shot placement that counts, not how many you have.

The real problem in that incident was the tactics used by the FBI. Given what transpired, semi-auto pistols and multiple magazines, sadly, wouldn't have saved S/A's Grogan and Dove.

Be safe.

s and
 
French police may still have some. They certainly issue some Ruger and Manurhin revolvers. Have had some S&W's.

These would mainly be local forces. The Gendarmerie Nationale has Beretta 92G's, I think, made at St. Etienne.

T-Star
 
Illinois may be the exception to the rule. Peoria PD issues 686, 64 & 10s. Decatur PD still issues 64s also authorized private purchase 1911 series 80. Green County 64s. Roodhouse 10s. These are just some of the departments that I have worked with. State corrections 64s.

Departments do not need to recycle pre lock, pre MIM guns. Departments can order NEW production no lock no MIM model guns via a S&W LEO distributor. The minimum purchase quantity varies with several factors including years of brand loyalty, previous purchase history, current need and others.

Last year I was able to order 2 (limited by distributor) new 686 no lock no MIM guns. My order was piggy backed with a local department order. Our regional LEO distributor will only piggy back orders from current LEOs. I have heard that other LEO distributors will help retired LEOs and other first responders.
 
The last I heard, the NYS Department of Corrections still uses Model 10's and a few Model 15's and the investigators (I know one personally) who has a M37, they are ex NYPD guns.
 
If I was a crook my worst nightmare would be some 60 year old police officer and a well worn in model 10. There is something to be said for shooting the same gun for 30+ years. Not to mention the triggers on old model 10s are just phenomenal. You're as good as dead if they get the drop on you.

dale
 
Well, I live in Mexico, so I suppose my opinion on the matter of the Model 10 in Mexico is somewhat qualified. Yes, there are still Model 10's in service. I have seen no NEW Model 10's in service, most of them being "pre-lock" models with 4 inch heavy barrels.

Up until about 8 years ago, the Model 10 was THE Police Revolver here. Up in Aguascalientes, they were actually using S&W Model 14's. There must be a pile of them on the "used" market up there, but I don't know anyone who knows enough about revolvers in that area to ask to go check. I'll be damned if I'm going up there right now.

8 years ago, the police here switched to the CZ-75 BD, the hammer dropper. About 2 years ago, they switched to the Glock 17. Still, a lot of CZ's remain in service, and some older Colt 1991 .38 Supers as well. The 3 "shift supervisors" carry the S&W 469. They only have 3 of those.

The Model 10's remain in service with the mounted patrols -- quite common around here -- and the Tourist police. Also, many new female officers are being hired (under the unstated assumption that they are more "honest" than their male counterparts) and they often have the old Model 10's, although I have seen a few with Glocks or CZ's, and one with a 1911 once. As all the Autos are carried in Condition 3 around here, personally, I think the Model 10 would probably be the thing to have if one had a choice except for the fact that issue ammo is the Aguila 130 grain FMJ bullet at about 850 fps the last time I chronoed it.

City Policemen in Mexico are not allowed to take their weapons home, and are rarely issued the SAME weapon daily, although they MAY be issued the same type of weapon (or not). They practise less than 100 rounds per year, generally. The upshot of this practise (based on basic distrust of the lowly paid officers) is that they will be unarmed when shift is over. So don't expect heroics during the shift, if you know what I mean. Backwards as hell, and changing only oh-so-slowly. But hey! They all wanna be seen with that Glock, by golly.

Foto; Excitement runs rampant as the first "test load" of Glock 17's arrive and local Police Officials test them out in a gravel pit. I tried to explain that the Glock 17 probably held no significant advantage over the CZ-75 BD that was already issued seeing as all local autoloaders are carried in Condition 3 anyways. However, the Glock is all the rage right now, and so anybody who is anybody in the local P.D. just had to have one.
Uw8dT2V.jpg


Foto; Policemen scurry about during the Glock testing. I don't have a decent camera -- these are cel-phone shots that I took when nobody was watching me too close you understand.
8CYh23f.jpg


Foto; A party-like atmosphere ensued in the gravel pit during the initial Glock test with wives, daughters, sons and midgets joining in. After all, this is Mexico.
iYexh3S.jpg


Foto; One of my "soldier of fortune" shots. Training Mexican Army rurales. I'm using my own K-38 here, although the rurales used a wide variety of guns and gear -- some okay, some not so okay. I saw a few neat pencil barrel Model 10's in use, some 1911's in .38 Super or .45, and even a Glock 17. One guy had two matching .38 Supers in hand-tooled holsters with guady silver and copper grips on them. He told me he had never fired at a target in his life...only into the air.

"The air?" I asked.

"Si," he said. "The air. At the parties, I drink the tequila, and I shoot into the air."

Giving him my best Eastwood squint, I asked, "Have you ever fired your pistols really quick at the same time into the ground on either side of you like Sam on Bugs Bunny so that you rise up into the air?"

"NO!" He exclaimed. "Does that work?"

"Not usually," I told him.

kDb3ryd.jpg
 
Last edited:
Well, I live in Mexico, so I suppose my opinion on the matter of the Model 10 in Mexico is somewhat qualified. Yes, there are still Model 10's in service. I have seen no NEW Model 10's in service, most of them being "pre-lock" models with 4 inch heavy barrels.

Up until about 8 years ago, the Model 10 was THE Police Revolver here. Up in Aguascalientes, they were actually using S&W Model 14's. There must be a pile of them on the "used" market up there, but I don't know anyone who knows enough about revolvers in that area to ask to go check. I'll be damned if I'm going up there right now.

8 years ago, the police here switched to the CZ-75 BD, the hammer dropper. About 2 years ago, they switched to the Glock 17. Still, a lot of CZ's remain in service, and some older Colt 1991 .38 Supers as well. The 3 "shift supervisors" carry the S&W 469. They only have 3 of those.

The Model 10's remain in service with the mounted patrols -- quite common around here -- and the Tourist police. Also, many new female officers are being hired (under the unstated assumption that they are more "honest" than their male counterparts) and they often have the old Model 10's, although I have seen a few with Glocks or CZ's, and one with a 1911 once. As all the Autos are carried in Condition 3 around here, personally, I think the Model 10 would probably be the thing to have if one had a choice except for the fact that issue ammo is the Aguila 130 grain FMJ bullet at about 850 fps the last time I chronoed it.

City Policemen in Mexico are not allowed to take their weapons home, and are rarely issued the SAME weapon daily, although they MAY be issued the same type of weapon (or not). They practise less than 100 rounds per year, generally. The upshot of this practise (based on basic distrust of the lowly paid officers) is that they will be unarmed when shift is over. So don't expect heroics during the shift, if you know what I mean. Backwards as hell, and changing only oh-so-slowly. But hey! They all wanna be seen with that Glock, by golly.

Foto; Excitement runs rampant as the first "test load" of Glock 17's arrive and local Police Officials test them out in a gravel pit. I tried to explain that the Glock 17 probably held no significant advantage over the CZ-75 BD that was already issued seeing as all local autoloaders are carried in Condition 3 anyways. However, the Glock is all the rage right now, and so anybody who is anybody in the local P.D. just had to have one.
Police%20Range%20006.jpg


Foto; Policemen scurry about during the Glock testing. I don't have a decent camera -- these are cel-phone shots that I took when nobody was watching me too close you understand.
Police%20Range%20007.jpg


Foto; A party-like atmosphere ensued in the gravel pit during the initial Glock test with wives, daughters, sons and midgets joining in. After all, this is Mexico.
Police%20Range%20012.jpg


Foto; One of my "soldier of fortune" shots. Training Mexican Army rurales. I'm using my own K-38 here, although the rurales used a wide variety of crap -- some okay, some not so okay. I saw a few neat pencil barrel Model 10's in use, some 1911's in .38 Super or .45, and even a Glock 17. One guy had two matching .38 Supers in hand-tooled holsters with guady silver and copper grips on them. He told me he had never fired at a target in his life...only into the air.

"The air?" I asked.

"Si," he said. "The air. At the parties, I drink the tequila, and I shoot into the air."

Giving him my best Eastwood squint, I asked, "Have you ever fired your pistols really quick at the same time into the ground on either side of you like Sam on Bugs Bunny so that you rise up into the air?"

"NO!" He exclaimed. "Does that work?"

"Not usually," I told him.

Chiapas.JPG

Maybe the funniest post I have ever read on here!!
"Have you ever fired your pistols really quick at the same time into the ground on either side of you like Sam on Bugs Bunny so that you rise up into the air?"
"NO!" He exclaimed. "Does that work?" LMAO!
 
Calmex,
You look like Chuck Norris in that last photo. I can almost hear you pointing to one officer in the ranks or the other saying "you" or "come here" and getting them to come try to take you on and wiping the floor with them as a good workout like in Delta Force 2. LOL!
 
To this day the Lehigh County Sheriff's Dept. here in PA still issues the stainless version (Model 64 or 65?) of the Model 10. They are pre-lock and pre-MIM and made right. I guess they keep recycling them when the deupties retire or die. The deputies continue to scream bloody murder about having to use the "obsolete revolver" while I would be happy to trade in my department issued Sig 229 for an old Model 10. As far as I'm concerned, if you can hit what you're shooting at, six rounds of proper .38 Special are better than any semiauto out there.

Dave Sinko
I agree Dave. Its fun when I am at the range. I see all these so called shooters with their Glocks and Sigs shoot and there spread is all over their targets. I am a old revolver guy. I will take my model 10-14 (current model) and consistly shoot in the black or in red of a bulleye target. This is at 15 yrds away. Bullet placement is the key to suvival. You can miss with 10 rounds but three rounds by a model 10/64 with good ammo will beat the guys with the autoloaders everytime. Its a known fact.

roaddog28
 
The department I retired from in Nov 2007 issues the Model 642 as a back-up to the issue Glock 21, but no one carries a revolver as a duty weapon anymore.
 
french national police and gendarmerie who was till this year a military force are now equiped with sig 9 m/m
the municipal police who was under the mayor of the city order are only authorised to carry 38 special ,sometimes before 32 acp in a law of 5 years ago ,before they have 357 during 4 years many 357 were in the market for sold from municipal police .
the municipal police don't have the same task than your metropolitan police
no crime investigation,more circulation regulation and neighbours problems
hope i can help
have a good night
ANDRE
 
french national police and gendarmerie who was till this year a military force are now equiped with sig 9 m/m
the municipal police who was under the mayor of the city order are only authorised to carry 38 special ,sometimes before 32 acp in a law of 5 years ago ,before they have 357 during 4 years many 357 were in the market for sold from municipal police .
the municipal police don't have the same task than your metropolitan police
no crime investigation,more circulation regulation and neighbours problems
hope i can help
have a good night
ANDRE


Andre-

Merci beaucoup! Do the police there still use some Rugers? There is a photo of a French policewoman on the Net, with an SP-101 in her holster. Is it authentic? That is, do they use Rugers and Manurhins still? I know that Trautsch (a French company) makes grips for the SP-101.

If I understood you correctly, the police in cities now use only .38 Specials, the .357 having been authorized for four years, but not now? So, ex-police .357's are on the market there?

I definitely read that Beretta 92G's were being made at St. Etienne. Are these for Army use?

I'm guessing that GIGN uses whatever it wants?
What about the black-uniformed CRS riot police?

Do gendarmes often still carry the MAT-49 submachine gun?

We don't read much about French guns here. :rolleyes: A pity that Americans aren't more interested in other cultures. Most of what I know about France involves wines. I do know French wines quite well.

I have greatly enjoyed the film, "Day of the Jackal" (and the excellent book) , but the guns in it are dated, the movie being set in DeGaulle's time. One soldier executing a terrorist leader had the old M-92 8mm revolver!

My brother visited France some years ago and brought me a French gun magazine. Very interesting.

Thanks,

T-Star
 
The Phila. Pa. police do not issue the Model 10's anymore, but I see a good number of the officers still carry the Model 10's. I believe the older officers had the option of keeping thier issued revolver and not transitioning to the autos.
 
If I was a crook my worst nightmare would be some 60 year old police officer and a well worn in model 10. There is something to be said for shooting the same gun for 30+ years. Not to mention the triggers on old model 10s are just phenomenal. You're as good as dead if they get the drop on you.

dale

Dalewelch... You've got that right. I've been the range officer for some classes recently where retired officers qualify for the national carry permit. In one of the classes there were around 30 officers with over 600 combined years of law enforcement experience. They were an amazing group of shooters and some were real characters. About a third qualified with revolvers and they were incredibly accurate. Some of them had noticeable physical problems which had no effect on their accuracy. I'd be pretty happy to have those revolver shooters around if things went south.
 
Andre-

Merci beaucoup! Do the police there still use some Rugers? There is a photo of a French policewoman on the Net, with an SP-101 in her holster. Is it authentic? That is, do they use Rugers and Manurhins still? I know that Trautsch (a French company) makes grips for the SP-101.

If I understood you correctly, the police in cities now use only .38 Specials, the .357 having been authorized for four years, but not now? So, ex-police .357's are on the market there?

I definitely read that Beretta 92G's were being made at St. Etienne. Are these for Army use?

I'm guessing that GIGN uses whatever it wants?
What about the black-uniformed CRS riot police?

Do gendarmes often still carry the MAT-49 submachine gun?

We don't read much about French guns here. :rolleyes: A pity that Americans aren't more interested in other cultures. Most of what I know about France involves wines. I do know French wines quite well.

I have greatly enjoyed the film, "Day of the Jackal" (and the excellent book) , but the guns in it are dated, the movie being set in DeGaulle's time. One soldier executing a terrorist leader had the old M-92 8mm revolver!

My brother visited France some years ago and brought me a French gun magazine. Very interesting.

Thanks,

T-Star

TEXAS STAR
in city we find the the 3 corps
municipal police under the mayor autority
gendarmerie and national police under the governement
sp101 was for women in civilian of the national police
before the sig pistol you can find or manurhin 73 or manurhin 88
a ruger security 6 frame with a marurhin barrel and a frame stud
army seem also go to sig pistol
mat 49 is out they have H.K.
during the 80's C.R.S have the ruger mini 14 but now i don't know
the rifle serve above in riot control before they have old mousqueton
berthier 1916 ,C.R.S are unities of the national police
gendarmerie have the same in "gendarmerie mobile" but like they are military ,we find sqadron of armour vehicules ,parachutist compagnies
and they wear army regular firearms .
gendarmerie also can open fire more easily than police.
GIGN and the police similar force RAID use weapons other than regulars
beretta was made under licence at SAINT-ETIENNE i think that is the same for the SIG
yes there is a lot of 357 mag in sold during the lasts years
many 32 acp pp or ppk
now it's seem that the municipal police wear all the 38 4 " with fix sights and a laynard ring
have a nice day

ANDRE
 
I carried one on my job in NYC back in the early 70'- mid 80's then switched to my personnel Beretta 92 which carried 16 + one in the pipe. what a big difference, in fire power, but the old S&W model 10's were nice guns with the bull BBl's
 
"If I was a crook my worst nightmare would be some 60 year old police officer and a well worn in model 10. There is something to be said for shooting the same gun for 30+ years. Not to mention the triggers on old model 10s are just phenomenal. You're as good as dead if they get the drop on you."

Agreed. Somewhere I read " Be carfull of the guy who owns one revolver. Chances are he knows how to use it well."
 
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