Grayfox
US Veteran
I'd really hate to think that we are the most intelligent life in the universe.
Do you believe?
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Poodle Soup
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I think the aliens have already found us. And to keep us from messing up their planet they keep tabs on everything that "looks up" and leaves the atmosphere to stay out of sight.
"But these humans need our help"
"Didn't you read the reports on what happened when humans found new worlds with new people?"
"But these humans need our help"
"Didn't you read the reports on what happened when humans found new worlds with new people?"
Gunslinger808
Member
The surest sign that there is intelligent life out there, is that none of it has tried to contact us.
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Delos
Member
You are half right
The galaxy you are looking at is no longer there. You can never get there from here.
The Big Bang Theory says everything in the universe is expanding outward.
You correctly described the light that you see. But that light is like a fire truck speeding across a large parade field squirting water outward in all directions. If you tried to run toward it "like the crow flies" you would form an increasingly larger curve. Like shooting skeet you would need to aim ahead of where you see it, to actually intersect. But unlike shooting skeet you would find yourself almost behind it trying to catch up.
If you flew there frozen - at the speed of light - then tried to "phone home" it would take about two million years for the message to be received and longer for a reply. Electromagnetic Waves travel at the speed of light. You would need someone frozen in a mountain on earth programmed to wake up on your signal - or the language would change so much you would not be able to communicate.
Naturally the person who was frozen in the mountain would look out at a very primitive world. People fighting with sticks and stones because all technology destroyed with increasingly better super weapons. Perhaps every few thousand years.
Anyone coming here from there would be in exactly the same position. Or they would hit our atmosphere at high speed - and heat from air friction - and all their frozen water would explode over Russia in a big steam explosion - like just happened over Russia?
The world population has tripled in my lifetime. We can no longer afford to go out in space. We can only afford war.
Read the history of our secret military aircraft. We would have no secrets if everyone was told everything.
I decided to come back to this thread and offer up what I truly believe as this is my ultimate favorite topic. I apologize for the length of this post so please humor me!
As stated above in my first post, my family and I enjoy using our 12" reflector (a beast to lug around) and our 4" refractor telescopes to view the heavens above. For those that have never taken a peek through a good telescope at a deep space target, I will tell you right up front that what you see might be disappointing after looking at photos taken with long exposure times. In most instances, what you see will be relatively small and colorless because our eyes and brain aren't quick enough to see the color. The picture below is of the Andromeda Galaxy which, at 1.2 million light years, is the closest to our Milky Way Galaxy. This galaxy can actually be seen with the naked eye or binoculars on a good night with a stable atmosphere. The "light" or what you are actually seeing actually left the galaxy traveling at the speed of light (186 thousand miles per second) and it has taken 1.2 million years to reach us here on earth. Taking into account the laws of physics, the viewer is actually seeing the past or looking back at what the galaxy looked like 1.2 million years ago. The "actual view" may be quite different now if you were actually in close proximity to the galaxy, (let's say 1 light year away). If a being is living at the opposite side of the Andromeda galaxy and is staring back at us through whatever it is they use to do so, our galaxy will look entirely different to them than what it looks like to those of us that call it home. To me, that's almost more than my miniscule human brain can fathom.
Now, only a tiny number of galaxies are visible to us here on earth but a supercomputer simulation recently said that there could be as many as 500 billion galaxies in our universe with each having hundreds of billions of stars. So, if you want to do the math, you will plainly see that there are actually countless possibilities that some type of life exists out there somewhere. Actually, the mathematical and scientific odds are much greater that there is than isn't.
Do I believe that beings from another world have visited this speck in time that we call home? Truthfully, without physical proof, I don't have a clue. I do however believe its a completely possible concept because good people do see things now and then beyond the realm of human thinking. I believe that there is a strong possibility that others may have been here in the past and that at times, continue to "pass by". Its not a stretch of the imagination when one considers the vastness of the universe to believe that there are beings out there much older than the human race that have learned to cross vast distances using black holes, transformation theories, time travel or any other sci-fi method of traveling - things we humans are only now starting to understand.
No, I don't claim to be an expert at anything but I do "look up", read and imagine alot while I try to make a little sense to myself as to what could, can, or does go on "out there". One being that always pops into my thoughts of the universe and REALLY makes me wonder is God. Try to figure that one out - what kind of being must God really be if He can create the vastness and objects we can only glimpse in the night sky? We, the human race that seemingly can't do anything right, have no clue what's really out there. We have no idea what God's total package entails and we never will as long as we're constrained by our miniscule human minds.
I'll close by saying that anyone that seeks answers need only look up and let your imagination take it from there!
By the way, some of the closed minded statements made above simply amaze me. If we are indeed the highest form of life in the vast universe, the Creator made a REALLY BIG MISTAKE! I'll stop there!
The galaxy you are looking at is no longer there. You can never get there from here.
The Big Bang Theory says everything in the universe is expanding outward.
You correctly described the light that you see. But that light is like a fire truck speeding across a large parade field squirting water outward in all directions. If you tried to run toward it "like the crow flies" you would form an increasingly larger curve. Like shooting skeet you would need to aim ahead of where you see it, to actually intersect. But unlike shooting skeet you would find yourself almost behind it trying to catch up.
If you flew there frozen - at the speed of light - then tried to "phone home" it would take about two million years for the message to be received and longer for a reply. Electromagnetic Waves travel at the speed of light. You would need someone frozen in a mountain on earth programmed to wake up on your signal - or the language would change so much you would not be able to communicate.
Naturally the person who was frozen in the mountain would look out at a very primitive world. People fighting with sticks and stones because all technology destroyed with increasingly better super weapons. Perhaps every few thousand years.
Anyone coming here from there would be in exactly the same position. Or they would hit our atmosphere at high speed - and heat from air friction - and all their frozen water would explode over Russia in a big steam explosion - like just happened over Russia?
The world population has tripled in my lifetime. We can no longer afford to go out in space. We can only afford war.
Read the history of our secret military aircraft. We would have no secrets if everyone was told everything.
I have seen wierd stuff in the night sky, lights way up high making sudden turns, lights stopping then moving again, my wife saw one make several zigzag moves, stuff like that. I have no idea what they were, other than wierd.
marvin the martian
Member
Yup! We exist! 
There is a quote from Contact(?) that I like "If we're truly the only ones out there, that's an awful lot of wasted space." or something like that.
There is a quote from Contact(?) that I like "If we're truly the only ones out there, that's an awful lot of wasted space." or something like that.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I seen a cartoon, two astronauts were standing on the moon and a huge golf club is about to hit them.
cmort666
Member
Yeah, if you believed that could happen, you'd believe that sixteenth and seventeenth century Englishmen would keep abducting Indians from the east coast of North America...
labworm
US Veteran
I don't mind the presence of aliens on this earth.
But man it is no fun sitting behind them at a baseball game.
But man it is no fun sitting behind them at a baseball game.
Delos
Member
Point made, sorta
Yes, when various Queens and Kings did not have email or television they needed proof of exactly what people is now on land where they just planted their flag. They needed to see them in person.
Do not want to step on any other Royal toes that may have big armies.
Sure do not want the Mongols to come back and start whooping Europe again.
Columbus claimed he found India.
Anyone from any other Galaxy, or our own Galaxy and a different star/planet system, would know they were not irritating Royal neighbors.
Kings of old Europe were ruthless and greedy but not dumb. They would bring wise men and perhaps sea captains to see if anyone recognized the language?
No cameras back then. Artists could only do so much. Kings were not going to travel over here in cold leaky boats of that time. (Come to think of it you may have a point? Royalty from another planet system would not want to travel in itty bitty rocket ship?)
How about alien college students on spring break or study assignments for science class?
Yes, when various Queens and Kings did not have email or television they needed proof of exactly what people is now on land where they just planted their flag. They needed to see them in person.
Do not want to step on any other Royal toes that may have big armies.
Sure do not want the Mongols to come back and start whooping Europe again.
Columbus claimed he found India.
Anyone from any other Galaxy, or our own Galaxy and a different star/planet system, would know they were not irritating Royal neighbors.
Kings of old Europe were ruthless and greedy but not dumb. They would bring wise men and perhaps sea captains to see if anyone recognized the language?
No cameras back then. Artists could only do so much. Kings were not going to travel over here in cold leaky boats of that time. (Come to think of it you may have a point? Royalty from another planet system would not want to travel in itty bitty rocket ship?)
How about alien college students on spring break or study assignments for science class?
Alien life forms? Yeah, I believe in them. The XGF is living proof they exist. As far as INTELLIGENT alien life forms? XGF was not that type of girl.
Class III
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Delos ~ Sorry but you sort of lost me my friend. What do you mean when you say Andromeda "is no longer there"? Do you mean its no longer in the position in our sky that it appears to be? Truly it is moving away from the center of the universe or the point from where the "big bang" originated but, wouldn't you agree we are also moving away from that same point? If you believe in the big bang theory, we all started out from the same point of energy located within an infinite darkness. Taking that bang one step further and after the Good Lord said "let there be light" (the big bang), if Andromeda (and all the other galaxies) are "no longer there" or where we actually see them, then we are no longer here or where they currently see us from their prospective - correct? We are of course still here but I agree that we aren't in the same position they see us "now" as compared to where we all started from.
I agree that to reach the Andromeda galaxy (or any galaxy) you would have to move in the direction of where it would be if and when you arrived otherwise it wouldn't be there when you got there. That's why I believe if there is intelligent life out there that can travel these mind boggling distances, they do it in some way that allows them to transcend time and not take "direct flight routes". To be able to even think about flying there, a vehicle would have to travel much faster than the speed of light to make any progress. Otherwise, they would literally be suspended in current time - once the speed of light were reached, I believe you would stay at that point in time until you began to travel faster than light. It would only be at that point when you would actually begin to move backwards in time or forward towards the target.
Believe me, I'm not arguing with you but it is a thought provoking topic to ponder and discuss. I firmly believe that the human mind will never develope to the point of being able to understand how to travel such distances whether it be in direct flight or popping into a black hole and coming out the other end in a different dimension and time. Hopefully, we'll get to see what really goes on when we close our eyes for the last time and the Good Lord reveals it to us. In the meantime, its great to imagine, eh?!
I agree that to reach the Andromeda galaxy (or any galaxy) you would have to move in the direction of where it would be if and when you arrived otherwise it wouldn't be there when you got there. That's why I believe if there is intelligent life out there that can travel these mind boggling distances, they do it in some way that allows them to transcend time and not take "direct flight routes". To be able to even think about flying there, a vehicle would have to travel much faster than the speed of light to make any progress. Otherwise, they would literally be suspended in current time - once the speed of light were reached, I believe you would stay at that point in time until you began to travel faster than light. It would only be at that point when you would actually begin to move backwards in time or forward towards the target.
Believe me, I'm not arguing with you but it is a thought provoking topic to ponder and discuss. I firmly believe that the human mind will never develope to the point of being able to understand how to travel such distances whether it be in direct flight or popping into a black hole and coming out the other end in a different dimension and time. Hopefully, we'll get to see what really goes on when we close our eyes for the last time and the Good Lord reveals it to us. In the meantime, its great to imagine, eh?!
CW Spook
US Veteran
If you don't believe in aliens, you've never been to WalMart...
Just remember, 100 years ago no one believed 600 mph jetliners were possible. Up until the 1940s people didn't believe in atomic bombs or breaking the sound barrier. Landing on the moon was almost inconcievable. Tech may have slowed down but it hasn't stopped.
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If it is, you won't have to worry about it - you'll be dead and buried for millions of years by then. Besides, we will have destroyed this earth by then on our own
!http://www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/blog/a...nd-andromeda-galaxy-are-on-a-collision-course
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Roadtrash
US Veteran
Yeah, sitting outside with a good cigar and a drink of your choice looking at all those stars would be something.
Delos
Member
This is fun stuff. Galaxies around us moving away from the alleged Big Bang like "spokes on a wheel". The few articles I have read do not say how fast, but give some equation.
A scientist I believe best says we "do not know what came before the Big Bang". That it would be impossible to know. How small was the matter, or spot that exploded? I doubt anyone knows much - they run their math backward and assume nothing. When I was young our best astronomer claimed to see canals on Mars. Maybe egyptian pyramids? Someone saw a face when shadows were right.
It is like listening to the weatherman. Far off predictions get changed as more current information available.
Several years ago an astronomer claimed most galaxies are (traveling outward) in big circle or bubble formations. I assume they are spinning. Everything else is spinning. Whatever blew up in the "Big Bang" was probably spinning. Then the entire universe is probably spinning as spinning galaxies go outward like giant frisbees, full of stars with planets around them being smaller gravity frisbees. It is all relative.
I doubt there will be any time travel because that would entail taking atoms from one time period and adding them to another. Laws of Physics would never permit that.
And anyone going backward in time would be traveling back toward the big bang where we were, back whenever. It might be nice to wait until Mars is exactly behind us - or in exactly the same place toward the big bang that the earth was not long ago - and time travel back to the place mars now in. But mars has a very large orbit and one could only get close to its orbit and wait for it to arrive. (Fantasy stuff).
However no one knows if we might discover gravity wave communications. There might be numerous intelligent beings waiting for us to come into the Gravity Wave Communication chat room. Instantly communicating over billions of light year distances. It might be next weeks news?
Understanding gravity is still far away.
LIGO - Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory
Interesting stuff.
Delos
Member
LIGO might understand gravity waves soon
(Three Paragraphs down in right side column)
LIGO Laboratory News (Not the home page)
The trailblazing work of LIGO comprises hundreds of scientists and dozens of premier institutions all working toward a common goal - the discovery and study of gravitational waves. All involved firmly believe that the Advanced LIGO detectors will capture this prize. But in the build up to that day, vital and significant science is underway around the clock.
(Three Paragraphs down in right side column)
LIGO Laboratory News (Not the home page)
The trailblazing work of LIGO comprises hundreds of scientists and dozens of premier institutions all working toward a common goal - the discovery and study of gravitational waves. All involved firmly believe that the Advanced LIGO detectors will capture this prize. But in the build up to that day, vital and significant science is underway around the clock.
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