Do You Intervene?

[Dregg]

I'd take cover and see if I could determine if it's a "good shoot" or an active shooter. The guy may be an undercover and I don't want to shoot him. If it's clearly a murderous rampage, i'd engage.

 

[oldman45]

A good time to

I might like to add that, and the sheriff here will possibly agree with me, a LEO or private citizen cannot see the badge or ccw in your pocket. Officers arriving on a scene as described will see a man down, another holding a gun and they will react accordingly. The man with the gun may spin around at the sound of their commands prior to dropping his weapon and could wind up dead, no matter if he is off duty, plain clothes or ccw holder.

We are taught to put the gun away once the threat has been neutralized. I personally prefer one to place the firearm on the ground, away from the injured, and leave it there until properly identified.

Additionally, that gun just became evidence. It does not need to be handled by anyone other than those trained to preserve evidence and follow the chain of custody.

Unless well trained and assured of the situation at hand, I have to suggest as I already stated. Be a good witness. Often times being a witness is better than being a participant. A witness with recall more than a participant due to the stress on the participant at the moment.

 

[David LaPell]

There is no way to say what anyone will do in that situation. I can tell you that it all depends. Are you alone? Is your family with you? There is no way to tell. Some people tense up, some might not. I can tell you that I never tell anyone what I am going to do, because I have been shot at back when I was 18, and the guy was trying to put rounds through me. The guy thought I was trespassing when I was hunting grouse on my grandfather's land. Turns out that I found later on he was a state corrections officer. Anywho, I can still hear the rounds hitting the trees all around me. I was scared to death, and I can honestly say that I did not come up for air for a good long while. So again, I will never say what I am going to do when something happens like that. No one ever knows until the moment happens.

 

[sheriffoconee]

I might like to add that, and the sheriff here will possibly agree with me, a LEO or private citizen cannot see the badge or ccw in your pocket. Officers arriving on a scene as described will see a man down, another holding a gun and they will react accordingly. The man with the gun may spin around at the sound of their commands prior to dropping his weapon and could wind up dead, no matter if he is off duty, plain clothes or ccw holder.

We are taught to put the gun away once the threat has been neutralized. I personally prefer one to place the firearm on the ground, away from the injured, and leave it there until properly identified.

Additionally, that gun just became evidence. It does not need to be handled by anyone other than those trained to preserve evidence and follow the chain of custody.

Unless well trained and assured of the situation at hand, I have to suggest as I already stated. Be a good witness. Often times being a witness is better than being a participant. A witness with recall more than a participant due to the stress on the participant at the moment.

good advice here....not having a gun in your hand when the first cops arrive is great advice...EVEN if you ARE a cop...having worked plainclothes most of my career I learned early on that having a badge and yelling I AM A COP won't keep you from being cursed and ordered to the ground...
Don't try to handle evidence.
If you have indeed fired rounds, your gun will be taken for comparison purposes, and you may be without it for quite sometime.
Using a firearm to defend yourself, or to protect someone else is a traumatic experience, and unlike the movies, things happen quickly.....but they take a LONG time to complete....
It will change your life forever to use a firearm in a deadly force encounter. In the movies, the hero immediately drives on to the next adventure....in real life, there is questioning, photos, GSR kits, evidence collection, diagramming, more questioning, more evidence collection, guns are traced, backgrounds are examined.....
it is an ordeal....

 

[oldman45]

good advice here....not having a gun in your hand when the first cops arrive is great advice...EVEN if you ARE a cop...having worked plainclothes most of my career I learned early on that having a badge and yelling I AM A COP won't keep you from being cursed and ordered to the ground...
Don't try to handle evidence.
If you have indeed fired rounds, your gun will be taken for comparison purposes, and you may be without it for quite sometime.
Using a firearm to defend yourself, or to protect someone else is a traumatic experience, and unlike the movies, things happen quickly.....but they take a LONG time to complete....
It will change your life forever to use a firearm in a deadly force encounter. In the movies, the hero immediately drives on to the next adventure....in real life, there is questioning, photos, GSR kits, evidence collection, diagramming, more questioning, more evidence collection, guns are traced, backgrounds are examined.....
it is an ordeal....

And the wheels of justice move very, very slowly. I just went to court on a guy I handled in 2005. Think about how long his gun was tied up and he did not get it back as soon as the trial was over.

 

[Hotcoley]

For 35 years I was a recreational boater. For 15 of those I was a licensed professional. One of the most effective ways to be prepared for the unexpected/unthinkable is to mentally prepare. I used to spend long night watches mentally rehearsing what I would do (and especially what I should do first), in the event of a fire, water coming in, a man over board etc. Analyzing which steps to take first and thinking through various disaster scenarios allowed me to reach a higher level of preparedness. When problems did arise I was always two steps ahead of the curve having been there, done that mentally and on more than one occasion was able to save the boat and probably lives.

The same technique applies well to this thread. Do think about where you should park when visiting a stop and rob late in the evening? Ever scouted the lobby of your local bank for places to take cover if some idiot starts shooting? Which of your neighborhood ATM's are the safest late at night? Maybe I just have too much free time on my hands but I think about stuff like this and make plans. Any emergency situation will probably come at you hard and fast and being prepared will allow you to make those first critical decisions not only quickly but wisely.

I also agree that we should always be aware of our surroundings and be prepared. I too run scenarios through my head alot. I think in this day and age you have to because you just never know. I see so many people everyday leaving their purses unattended in their carts, money hanging out, kids are 5 isles down, the parents pay no attention. It takes 1 time, 1 opportunity for some sicko, and your life could change in an instant. Well not me buddy, cause I'm watching, I refuse to be a victim!

 

[borntoraisehogs]

The specific law including statutes in your own state is critical . The laws of self defense and defense of others as a defense to a criminal charge is often misunderstood . Adding to the confusion is the fact most of the cases dealing with deciding whether deadly force was justified , involves LEOs . In some states the law provides LEOs slightly more protection when deadly force is used while mistaken about justification . The reason being officers have a duty to act . Bottom line is civilians should not intervene unless under their own moral standard , they must . Everybody has their own standard , the law may not agree .

 

[The Big D]

I am pleased to report this account of one man who made the decision to "intervene."

No charges for hero off-duty officer who shot knife-wielding man at MGH - BostonHerald.com

Well done, sir.

Be safe.

 

[buckeyeshooter1]

Can't honestly say what I would do. But, I'm guessing I would be aware of the fact that I do not know if the shooter is a plain clothes cop or not? Best thing, maybe, is get to a phone and call 911, be safe and let the pros handle it.

 

[A10]

Lots of good stories, lots of good perspectives. Here is my call:

1. Drop and cover! Don't be conspicuous.
2. Call 911 and get the good guys on the way. Give them what they need and leave the phone open and on.
3. Draw and assess the situation. You may well be observing LEO in action, you may well be observing bad guys doing bad things, either to each other or to the good guys.
4. If bad things develop, yell at the bastard to dropit and stop, and if that fails, put two in the engine room and one in the junction box.

 

[jtpur]

Here is something that really happened to me twice. I was a cop in Florida. Two guys were exchanging gun fire... Turned out they were both dope dealers trying to rip each other off. I had the shot gun and my partner called for the tactical unit who had the machine gun....we kinda watched the gun fight for a moment, cause we had no idea who the bad guy was and if there was a bad guy/good guy...we agreed we'd be like Hockey Officials and wait for the fight to die down before we intervened, in the meantime we grabbed the PA, yelled POLICE and hit the siren....they gun fight ended and we wound up arresting a bunch of drug dealers. The next incident happened at two am...We see one gun blasting away at another guy who was taking cover under a city bus bench. My partner had the shot gun I was driving and we positioned the engine block in front of the guy getting shot at....Partner aims the shot gun a the shooter who wisely tossed the gun on the ground while yelling, "That M........F'er just robbed me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Turns out the Shooter just chased the would be victim out of his bedroom when he was rudely awakened by the "victim" who tripped over the shooters electrical cord to his fan.....You see it was a very hot summer night and the 'shooter" had no A/C and had his bedroom window open and his floor fan blowing to circulate the hot humid air....seems Mr Shooter went to bed with his gun under his pillow...makes me wish I had not put the engine block in front of the "victim." but hindsight is 20/20

 

[senecaap]

You've just got to decide what you can live with. I think I could live better with losing money and court hassle, than knowing I let someone get shot because I was afraid of how much the lawyer was going to cost, I'm a man not some shopkeeper hoarding pennies.