If you don't want your vehicle broke into, just leave it unlocked, with the windows about half open. No one will pay it any attention.
Do you leave your gun in your vehicle?
- Thread starter NitroDave
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cmort666
Member
And you advocate this where it would be a crime, indeed a felony?
What financial assistance from you could the person taking your advice count upon if found out?
By the way, I believe that advocating the commission of crimes is contrary to the TOS here...
jlrhiner
US Veteran
I don't advocate anything to anyone.
Your a big boy, make your own decisions.
Know your laws, and respect them. in Missouri, it's trespass, NOT a felony. Once again, change your laws.
No, I DO NOT believe someone's property rights trump my right to self protection. I WILL NEVER change my opinion on this. I carry a concealed firearm because I'm too old to beat someone to death with my bare hands. It's a tool, like my pocket knife. It sits quietly in my holster, under my shirt or jacket, without anyone's knowledge but mine. I don't wear it openly, I don't threaten anyone or act boisterous or bring attention to my self in any way. I'm not a crusader attempting to change anyone's ideas on CCW. If for some reason I'm discovered (hasn't happened yet) and asked to leave, there will be no argument. I will leave. I have nothing to prove.
Those of you that play checkers with your CCW and take it off and put it on depending on your location, you do what your conscience allows. By all means, follow your local laws. At the end of it all, your the ones who have to look in the mirror and be satisfied with that fellow looking out. I am, are you?
Your a big boy, make your own decisions.
Know your laws, and respect them. in Missouri, it's trespass, NOT a felony. Once again, change your laws.
No, I DO NOT believe someone's property rights trump my right to self protection. I WILL NEVER change my opinion on this. I carry a concealed firearm because I'm too old to beat someone to death with my bare hands. It's a tool, like my pocket knife. It sits quietly in my holster, under my shirt or jacket, without anyone's knowledge but mine. I don't wear it openly, I don't threaten anyone or act boisterous or bring attention to my self in any way. I'm not a crusader attempting to change anyone's ideas on CCW. If for some reason I'm discovered (hasn't happened yet) and asked to leave, there will be no argument. I will leave. I have nothing to prove.
Those of you that play checkers with your CCW and take it off and put it on depending on your location, you do what your conscience allows. By all means, follow your local laws. At the end of it all, your the ones who have to look in the mirror and be satisfied with that fellow looking out. I am, are you?
mudman bob
Member
I on occasion have to leave my weapon in the car and it is locked in a safe. I also have a child with a learning disorder, and use a safe at home. I'm good with it.
Poodle Soup
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Your just trying to start something aren't you?
When my destination... non plural... is somewhere I cannot carry I leave it at home. When Im going to the post office before I go somewhere else its in the car. When at work... its in the car like stated above.
The less time your firearm is unattended the better. Just like your children : p
The Constitution would ensure my right to keep.and bear. An individual who employs force of law ( government) to restrict my Consttutional right would seem to be violating my rights. It's a legal matter, isn't it? I just can't see how property trespass laws should be allowed to override the 2nd, or any other amendment.
The old rule " you can't holler 'til you're hurt" ought to apply, but that's just me- if the weapon is concealed, what's the beef?
Thats why lawyers argue law, I guess....
Jim, we hashed this out a while back and the same people want to argue the point as usual.
People don't understand that we have the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to protect ourselves by any means possible. Anywhere, anytime within the limits of the law.
No one man is going to tell me when and where I carry and would highly suggest he mind his own business and worry about himself.
And I wonder how many business owners that post such signs have a gun behind the counter?
Sincere question: put yourself on the other side of that position. You are a business owner, or a private citizen in your own home, and you don't want guns on your property. The law says you have a right, again on your property, to not allow anyone to carry a gun on your property. Would you think that someone who believes as you stated above would have the right to carry a gun on your property, despite your legal rights to say no?
Stated another way, one could say: "No one man is going to tell I have to allow guns on my property, and I suggest that he take his business elsewhere and leave me to mind my own business."
As you yourself said: "Anywhere, anytime within the limits of the law." If the law provides that a business can post it as no guns allowed, and you violate that prohibition, then you are not within the limits of the law.
Don't misunderstand...I am definitely in favor of our 2A rights, but as I said before, freedom is only free if everyone is free. No one should tell YOU that you can't have guns on YOUR property...but, no one should tell another man that he HAS to allow guns on HIS property, if he doesn't want them.
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Freedom is not freedom when we try to take away or limit someone else's freedom. NO man has the right to limit my freedom or my right to survive.
Frankly and honestly, I don't care at all about someone's feelings or their rights when it's comes to protecting myself and or family.
The only thing I'm concerned about is doing so within the limits of the law. If I go to jail because I was stupid, then I can't take care of my family.
But, this has been discussed before and we have drifted off topic.
jlrhiner
US Veteran
When I put myself on the other side of the table, I find myself questioning the reason. Do I, personally, as the business owner, absolutely fear a gun so much that I would risk looseing a paying customer for that belief? Or am I posting this sign in an attempt to comply with some insurance dweebs belief that it will make all bad people stop robbing or murdering and somehow decrease my chances of loss? Am I afraid that having a gun in my place of business is one step closer to Armageddon?
And on to a different note. How are you guys in Ohio and Texas handling CCW that business owners are finding you out? Do you wear a button? Or maybe a hat? Do you enter the business like John Belushi did in "Animal House"? What are you guys doing different? Because here in Missouri, it's not an issue. While I'm sure someone has been a putz and forced someone to do something about them, I haven't heard of a single instance of someone being asked to leave somewhere because they were legally carrying a firearm. Why does this continue to be such an issue for some of you? Carry or don't. It's your choice. You have to live with your decisions.
And on to a different note. How are you guys in Ohio and Texas handling CCW that business owners are finding you out? Do you wear a button? Or maybe a hat? Do you enter the business like John Belushi did in "Animal House"? What are you guys doing different? Because here in Missouri, it's not an issue. While I'm sure someone has been a putz and forced someone to do something about them, I haven't heard of a single instance of someone being asked to leave somewhere because they were legally carrying a firearm. Why does this continue to be such an issue for some of you? Carry or don't. It's your choice. You have to live with your decisions.
Your very own words (that I placed in bold print) are the other side of the argument.
Wiredog
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Navy
If someone catches you carrying in a non carry zone they would have to call you on it and ask for ID. (check for ofc, or Det. etc.) If you want to.
Tresspassing, Hunting, are defined in a dictionary and a law dictionary. Carry whatever you want--wherever--it's up to you if you want to play that game. If you have a gun you are hunting otherwise why are you out there? If not that then tresspassing. What's the arguement?
If someone catches you carrying in a non carry zone they would have to call you on it and ask for ID. (check for ofc, or Det. etc.) If you want to.
Tresspassing, Hunting, are defined in a dictionary and a law dictionary. Carry whatever you want--wherever--it's up to you if you want to play that game. If you have a gun you are hunting otherwise why are you out there? If not that then tresspassing. What's the arguement?
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TexasArmed
Member
This month I have encountered two signs pertaining to guns. One was at a hospital visiting a relative. I turned around and returned to my vehicle and secured two handguns because the sign I enountered was a 30.06 sign, the legally enforcable sign in Texas. The other sign I encountered yesterday, at a bank that had a bunch of its VISA card holders compromized and I had to go there. The "gun" sign I encountered was NOT a 30.06 sign and I disregarded it. Had no problem. The branch is in a high crime area, and I felt better having the weapon on me, not in the vehicle for someone to break in and get. As for the first case, I do hope that the hospital which was (St Michael's) in Texarkana has armed guards patrolling the parking lot to prevent vehicle breakins. It would distress me to have a criminal break in and steal my vehicle and/or a gun and then commit a crime with it. I wonder if business owners realize the danger they put the public in by putting up a "no gun sign".
But you are doing exactly what you say you don't want someone else to do to you...you are forcing your beliefs on someone else. A man has the right to decide, and the law says so, whether to allow guns or not on HIS property. Your rights do not trump another man's rights, again on HIS property.
This is exactly the same as someone telling YOU that you cannot carry a gun on YOUR property.
The only way that freedom works is with respect for everyone's rights and beliefs, not just one person's and to heck with everyone else.
You did exactly what is your right and correct under Texas law.
When we who are gun rights proponents disregard the law, or the rights of others, we play right into the hands of the anti-gun element. If we don't respect the law, then that just gives them ammunition (no pun intended.)
I don't think hunting is the issue here.
I do respect a businessmans sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" , but we all know Constitutional rights can be violated in the enforcement of that, too, but it took a while in court to settle that as well.
I personally don't intentionally annoy other people, or test them. It can be like poking a badger with a spoon.
gmiller0737
Member
You are welcome hope it works out for you.
Jim, I personally haven't heard of any permit holder being ushered out, or filed on for violating the 30-06 notice here in Texas(not to say it hasn't happened) and I concur that elected representatives make poor decisions and pass bad laws- maybe even in Missouri, I don't know... There is an election coming up as I recall.
OK, so my new Carryvault handgun safe arrived today. I went to pick it up off of the porch, and the first thing I noticed is how much it weighs (27lbs). It's twice as heavy and the steel is twice as thick as anything I saw at Cabelas.
I can easily fit any of my handguns, a box of ammo, my safety glasses, and earplugs in it. It will be nice for bringing to the range.
Here it is mounted in my H3:
I'm not sure I completely trust the fact that its held to the floor with 5 self tapping screws, so i might swap them for some carriage bolts tomorrow.
It's definitely what I was looking for. I will feel MUCH more comfortable leaving my handgun in my car for a few hours now.
Thanks for all the advice. Gotta go catch the debate.
I can easily fit any of my handguns, a box of ammo, my safety glasses, and earplugs in it. It will be nice for bringing to the range.
Here it is mounted in my H3:
I'm not sure I completely trust the fact that its held to the floor with 5 self tapping screws, so i might swap them for some carriage bolts tomorrow.
It's definitely what I was looking for. I will feel MUCH more comfortable leaving my handgun in my car for a few hours now.
Thanks for all the advice. Gotta go catch the debate.
I'm having a real hard time understanding why people think that property rights are more sacred than the right to defend yourself.
Do you really think a bad guy with a concealed firearm gives a damn about someone's property rights?
I look at it this way...... If a private owner or company hangs such a sign on their property, there must be a reason. In my opinion any reason they have is unreasonable and a violation of my second amendment rights.
Such signs only deter law abiding citizens. Personally I don't look for such signs and if I see one I ignore it. I know where I can and can't carry a firearm under state law. I consider "No Trespassing" signs more important than "No Guns" signs.
But a company or business that caters to the public cannot put "No Trespassing" signs up. Instead they put "No Guns" signs up and think their accomplishing something. But are they really? What kind of thinking or lack thereof does it take to hang such a sign?
You see, it's not about property rights at all. It's about foolish, irrational thinking, and pure selfishness on their part. It's not about the sign itself. It's about why the sign was put there.
I'm not forcing anything on anybody. I'm ENforcing my right to protect myself anywhere anytime within the law.
And your right, freedom only works if EVERYONE respects everyone's rights. But because someone hung a "No Guns" sign on the door, THEY forced their beliefs on ME.
Private property or public property, freedom and the rights of all should be observed and respected by all, all the time. But some people don't want to play fair. They want to make money but they want to restrict their customers. They want to pick and choose. You can't have it both ways if things are to be fair.
If our society was perfect, if people didn't hate guns, and criminals didn't ignore the law and the right of others, we wouldn't be talking about this.
People that hang such signs don't want to protect themselves. They're too scared. They don't want to get dirty. They want someone to do it for them. They want what they want and they want it now. I don't have time nor will I make time for such people.
If you REALLY want to get my attention, hang a sign that says "PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO SHOOTING".
Now THAT means something!!
Regards.
Duke426
Member
Absolutely not. If it's not on my person it's locked in the safe. Leaving a firearm unattended, even in a locked vehicle, is negliegent in my opinion.
Like I said, I don't pay attention to those signs or any other signs when I walk into a business. I'm concerned about what's inside. I'm not about to let their phony ideals force me to drive across town for something I need.
But they will sure hang a "No Guns" sign up but they won't hang any type of political sign up now will they!
Talk about hypocrisy.Besides, none of this really matters if the gun is concealed.
Your rights do not trump the other person's rights on their property. Would you like someone telling you that you could not carry a gun on your property? It's a two way street.
Kanewpadle said:
The law doesn't give you that right...there are exceptions to the laws in most if not all states which preclude legal carry, such as schools and government offices. In addition, if you carry a gun inside a premise that has posted the 30.06 sign, you are not within the law (in Texas.)
Kanewpadle said:
You have every right not to shop at or patronize that business. You do not have the right to enforce your beliefs on someone else.
Kanewpadle said:
What you are really saying is that the rights of all should be observed and respected as long as you agree with them. Your statements have indicated that you have no respect for, and no intent to observe, another person's legal right not to allow firearms on his own property. You want your rights, but you don't want to allow another person to have his rights, if they do not agree with your beliefs. You want to force someone to adopt your beliefs, and are not willing to allow them the same freedom that you have.
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As to your last statement, you are correct. I have no respect or regard for someone that would trample upon my second amendment rights. And yes, in a way I am forcing them adopt my beliefs because in this case, they are right and true.
If someone doesn't like that I carry on their property they can ask me to leave and I will do so. But that's IF they find that I'm carrying. Mighty big IF.
Hypothetically, if I were in your place of business or on your land, would you ask me if I were carrying concealed? What do you think my response would be? Would you try to search me? How well do you think that would go?
This whole discussion is a non issue for me my friend. I don't worry about it one bit. I will continue to do what I feel is right.
I obey the law. I respect others and expect the same in return. I don't cause trouble or bring attention to myself. I simply go about my business. But don't tell me that I can't protect myself anywhere I go. Ain't gonna happen.
Again, the right to protect myself is a basic GOD given right which came well before any property right. GOD gave me the ability to protect myself anywhere on this earth. Only he can take it away. Until that day comes I can and will do what's necessary to protect myself.
No disrespect buddy, but I can't explain it any better than that. If we disagree, so be it.
But I think we're done here.No disrespect buddy, but I can't explain it any better than that. If we disagree, so be it.
My oldest son (who is ultra liberal) and I debate political beliefs all the time...and my wife thinks we are fighting. We aren't...even if on occasion the voices get raised a little. We are discussing, and we have different viewpoints. If we didn't the conversations would be a LOT shorter!
No disrespect to you either, sir, and while we don't agree, we do live in a free country where we can each have our own opinions!
riverrat38
US Veteran
"I'm having a real hard time understanding why people think that property rights are more sacred than the right to defend yourself."
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. They are not telling you that you can't enjoy your 2nd amendment rights to carry. They are just telling you that you are not welcome on their property. You have the same right to exclude them from your property. Thats what private means. What I find offensive is when any government agency tells me I can't enjoy my 2nd amendment rights on public property, such as Post Offices. And, those who think that it is a hassle to have to lock their guns in their vehicle should think about whats implied for someone who walks to pick up their mail. Am I supposed to leave my revolver lying on the sidewalk in front of the post office to get to my PO Box? Yea, sure!
Rick
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. They are not telling you that you can't enjoy your 2nd amendment rights to carry. They are just telling you that you are not welcome on their property. You have the same right to exclude them from your property. Thats what private means. What I find offensive is when any government agency tells me I can't enjoy my 2nd amendment rights on public property, such as Post Offices. And, those who think that it is a hassle to have to lock their guns in their vehicle should think about whats implied for someone who walks to pick up their mail. Am I supposed to leave my revolver lying on the sidewalk in front of the post office to get to my PO Box? Yea, sure!
Rick
Maybe I can help with a quick analogy...
Lets say you know a guy who likes to drop the F-bomb every other word... You don't want your children/customers in that environment.
Just as your second amendment gives you the freedom to carry a handgun, the first amendment gives him the freedom to speak in whichever way he chooses.
However, when he enters your home/business (private property), you have the right to tell him to leave his language at the door or not to come in.
Shouldn't the same rules apply to our second amendment rights?
If property owners truly own their property, shouldn't they be able to decide who/what they allow on their property?
Lets say you know a guy who likes to drop the F-bomb every other word... You don't want your children/customers in that environment.
Just as your second amendment gives you the freedom to carry a handgun, the first amendment gives him the freedom to speak in whichever way he chooses.
However, when he enters your home/business (private property), you have the right to tell him to leave his language at the door or not to come in.
Shouldn't the same rules apply to our second amendment rights?
If property owners truly own their property, shouldn't they be able to decide who/what they allow on their property?
What - It ain't cheatin' unless you get caught?"
Your fallacy is in saying that you only break the law if you get caught breaking the law. Kind of like saying your wife is having an affair only if you actually see her in bed with another man...
And you're having way too much fun pulling our collective leg.
Good Day.
Lady4wr
Member
Single lady, travels a lot alone. Live in country. Anywhere I go is 25 to 40 miles. Most places I cannot carry. So, if I leave the dang gun at home when I go to places I cannot carry, what good is that going to be when I am changing tire or whatever on side of road at night and may need it? I want it where I can get get my hands on it even sitting at a red light in a nearby town. That's just me. Leave under seat when out of vehicle. Can buy another gun, my safety is more important to me.
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