Dont-be-a-gun-dork-in-traffic-stops

[The Last Standing Knight]

Very good post, roundgunner.

But don't forget about the "gun dorks" that deck their pickup trucks out with various firearm manufacturer and pro-2nd Amendment stickers, along with their personalized "1SHT 1KL" license plate, and then get offended and bitch about it online when the officer politely asks if they have any weapons in the vehicle.

And there's the mother of all traffic stop dorks, though not necessarily a "gun dork": He's got a car (possibly a retired Crown Victoria Police Intercepter) covered in "Thin Blue Line" and FOP stickers, and whips out a security guard or concealed carry badge when the officer approaches only to become incredibly offended when he doesn't get "professional courtesy". Occasionally followed by an arrest for illegal installation or operation of a blue light, for the real whackos.

I laughed hysterically at this. Because I've seen it happen numerous times. (To be frank, I've driven vehicles so equipped, but in Texas, if you have this kind of gear and don't use it on the street, you're pretty much ok...I didn't have too much of a choice)

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Texas doesn't now require you to tell a cop you're armed at a traffic stop. It used to and I treat it as a courtesy if I am stopped, to show my CCW, tell the cop where it is, AND DON'T TOUCH IT!

If the cop wants to see it...then I'll let THEM take the pistol.

 

[BKDinTexas]

Knight,

You are incorrect. Texas law still requires you to show your CHL to a peace officer that asks for ID - when you are carrying. The legislature just removed the penalty for failing to do so in the last session.

I haven't read the whole thread, but being a former LEO myself, I believe it is a good practice to present your CHL with your driver's license when asked for ID.

In my case, I present my driver's license and CHL together, and say nothing about my gun. I don't announce it or otherwise draw attention to it. They know when they see my CHL, and they'll also know when they run your driver's license. In my case, they've never asked to see my gun, secure it, or even where it is - probably cause I gave them my CHL in the first place. Coolness, quietness and common sense go a long way here.

 

[PDL]

For the AZ LEO, what happens in the case of out of state permit holders? Your dispatcher wouldn't have that information, would they?

 

[Practical]

The only Gun Dork behavior I see is the advice the poster is giving.

Some states require you to notify an officer if you are armed.

Some states require you to present your permit.

In my state, the Officer on running my plate number SHOULD see that I have been issued a Pistol Permit.

I expect he/she knows I might have a gun If I, the registered owner of the vehicle am driving it. As well as as any pertinent driving and criminal history.

The poster's intent is right, we should act in the best manner possible, but realistically in the age of Radio Computer links and lookup of license plates and IDs make the knowledge that you have a pistol permit easy to acquire, at least in my state where you used to be able to look up who had a pistol permit.

My local also does not recognize ANY other states permits. They will arrest you if you are transporting a handgun in the state if discovered.

 

[cmort666]

My local also does not recognize ANY other states permits. They will arrest you if you are transporting a handgun in the state if discovered.

They'd better not if you're carrying IAW FOPA. Do that to me and people will be paying my judgment instead of their mortgage.

 

[The Big D]

They'd better not if you're carrying IAW FOPA. Do that to me and people will be paying my judgment instead of their mortgage.

Please, please, stop talking about LEO's paying your judgements. It's getting rather old...as is your obvious prejudice against LEO's.

You've stopped (mostly) referencing Chicago PD in every post; kindly stop referencing LEO's in every post.

 

[digi-shots]

Virginia law does not require that you show your CHP when stopped, but I've been told (by a Virginia Beach LEO) that the police really appreciate it if you tell them you have one if stopped (they're going to find out anyway when they run you car tags).

Both my drivers license and CHP are in the same clear holder, so it makes it very convenient to pull them both out at the same time. I guess that makes me a dork.

 

[cmort666]

Please, please, stop talking about LEO's paying your judgements. It's getting rather old...as is your obvious prejudice against LEO's.

You've stopped (mostly) referencing Chicago PD in every post; kindly stop referencing LEO's in every post.

Do you consider adherence to federal law optional?

Yes or no?

 

[Out West]

I've only had a couple of opportunities to interface with LEO's since I've had my carry permit. In all cases the experience was positive. TX does require presentation of the permit when a gun is present.

PS: At my last CHL renewal, the instructor advised that the permit be provided whether or not a gun is present. Now that the CHL database has been linked to the DL database the instructor believes that after running the DL, the LEO will be wondering why the permit was not offered with the DL - needlessly creating doubt and anxiety for the LEO.

Out West

 

[The Big D]

Do you consider adherence to federal law optional?

Yes or no?

No, of course not.

I tend to abide by all laws. And, I expect the same from those enforcing the law. There may be exceptions, but LEO's do their very best, every minute of every day, to perform their sworn duty. Perfection is unobtainable; excellence is.

The "exceptions" are duly addressed. That sometimes (too often) takes much more time than expected (and as we would like) but they are protected by the same laws as the rest of us.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Knight,

You are incorrect. Texas law still requires you to show your CHL to a peace officer that asks for ID - when you are carrying. The legislature just removed the penalty for failing to do so in the last session.

I haven't read the whole thread, but being a former LEO myself, I believe it is a good practice to present your CHL with your driver's license when asked for ID.

In my case, I present my driver's license and CHL together, and say nothing about my gun. I don't announce it or otherwise draw attention to it. They know when they see my CHL, and they'll also know when they run your driver's license. In my case, they've never asked to see my gun, secure it, or even where it is - probably cause I gave them my CHL in the first place. Coolness, quietness and common sense go a long way here.

I stand corrected.

 

[cmort666]

No, of course not.

I tend to abide by all laws. And, I expect the same from those enforcing the law. There may be exceptions, but LEO's do their very best, every minute of every day, to perform their sworn duty. Perfection is unobtainable; excellence is.

The "exceptions" are duly addressed. That sometimes (too often) takes much more time than expected (and as we would like) but they are protected by the same laws as the rest of us.

The person to whom I replied posited, without further explanation, a potential violation of FOPA. There's no reason why anyone should accept that without imposing the appropriate consequences.

I have to obey the law. I'm not going to let anyone break the law in dealing with me. I make not the slightest apology for that.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

I play golf with three State Troopers. I have asked them this question. I told them that I didn't see the need to muddy the waters of a routine traffic stop by throwing a gun into the mix. They all agreed. Unless I am specifically asked about having a firearm in my possession, or I am asked to step out of the vehicle, I will not mention a concealed handgun.

It will be "Yes sir and no sir, answers while following their requests. My hands will remain on the steering wheel unless I am asked to get something. I will usually have my license and registration/ proof of insurance ready when the officer gets to my vehicle. If pulled over at night, the dome light is turned on and hands are on the steering wheel. These things are much appreciated by the law around these parts.


WG840

 

[roundgunner]

Wheelgunner,
I can tell you and I are neighbors, you are saying the same thing I tried to say only in a better way.
+1 to what and how you said it.
Happy New Year!

 

[P&R Fan]

Pulled over while carrying

Finally something I have a great deal of experience in. Being pulled over and carrying a gun, often simultaneously. I have had it happen numerous times and I have never advised the LEO. I have read almost everything Massad Ayoob has written for about 13 years. He has been a cop for about 40 yrs, is an expert witness on shooting cases and has his own school, Lethal Force Institute. I think his advice is very good on the subject. Stop vehicle in a safe area, shut it off, dome light on (at night) hands on wheel, license and other documents in hand or on dash. OK, now about that gun. If you stay in car and it is WELL concealed, don't bring it up unless required. If you are asked to get out, before doing so say "Of course, Officer, but I want to advise you a have a concealed carry license and I have it on now. Please tell me how you would like me to proceed". Don't say the word "GUN". If he or his partner only hears that word, due to traffic noise or whatever, you're gonna see his! You are being a true mature responsible citizen. Any LEO worth his salt will respect you for it. The few bad ones are another story. Fortunately they really are very few.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Wheelgunner,
I can tell you and I are neighbors, you are saying the same thing I tried to say only in a better way.
+1 to what and how you said it.
Happy New Year!

Maybe it IS regional. I see it the same way. It's CONCEALED. It's going to stay that way until instructed otherwise. Police are capable of checking records if they want to, but I guess that around here, they don't bother, perhaps because they don't figure that, lacking other indications, a permit holder is going to be a problem.

P.S. My hands stay in view, holding my driver's license and the registration I'm perhaps still extracting from my wallet. I don't go searching for or hiding things around the car, and I don't have to reach near my gun or towards any other hidden parts of my body to get my wallet, which is actually a slim card case carried in an upper left visible pocket. I can, at any time, extract my wallet or return it while my hands are in full view of the policeman. I consider that bit of planning a lot more effective than talking about guns nobody asked about so a policeman won't get nervous when I reach towards my back pocket for a wallet.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

There was a time when I would happily nd readily notify an officer of my CWP, but that changed a few years ago. I notified the deputy on the traffic stop of my CWP and asked how he wished to proceed, then was immediately removed from my vehicle at gunpoint and spread-eagled on the hood of my car with another deputy holding me in that position with his hand on his gun. I was searched and disarmed, cited, and questioned as to why I needed to carry a gun, then turned loose with some harsh words.

No, I think an officer doesn't need to know about my gun now, thankyouverymuch.

 

[The Highlander]

Beats me how to handle it. I just don't get stopped.

I did get stopped in a DUI roadblock a few years ago, as were all vehicles on that particular stretch. I handed the officer both my DL and HCP. He made absolutely no comments other than "have a nice day."

In Tennessee, at least outside of the cities, I'd figure most vehicles have a weapon in them all the time anyway. I doubt you'll find too many farm trucks that don't have at least a .22 at all times. I saw a comment to that effect from the head leo in Knoxville a while back as well.

 

[The Highlander]

Oh yeah, Tennessee did a great job on our Handgun Carry Permits, they are physically identical to the driver's license. They fit into a wallet very well.