I have a dumb question. I have heard that the heavier the bullet weight the less the perceived recoil. So a 115 grain 9mm bullet has a snappier feel to it than a 147 grain bullet. The husband says it is the opposite. That the 115 grain bullet is less snappy than a heavier bullet would be. I know it also has to do with the amount of powder used. This would be based on a middle of the road powder load. Thoughts?
Dumb ammo question
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Your husband is right. A heavy bullet is harder to push and creates more pressure. Imagine you were shooting a load with a 1 grain bullet or basically a "blank". There will be little to no recoil. A heavy bullet in a light gun will create a heavy recoil. There area lot of factors that contribute to felt recoil. The lighter bullet will often travel faster, but what it hits will have less "impact". Heavier bullet often require less powder. Backwards from what it seems I realize.
BlueOvalBandit
Member
Perceived recoil is complicated and not only includes amount of powder but the burn rates of a particular powder used. Now unless you handload lighter bullets and heavy bullets wont be going at the same speed, but they can be at a similar kinetic energy (KE). If they're were going the exact same speed I'd agree the lighter would feel like it recoils less. I've always felt heavy bullets and faster powders have less perceived recoil for a given KE, I'm sure others who shoot gun games will agree.
Actual recoil, there's no way to get around Newton's laws and Force=Mass x acceleration. But then you have impulse which is force x time and this is where the perception of recoil comes into play. So if you decrease the time of that the force is applied you decrease the impulse, meaning the snappy feel you get with lighter bullet weights versus the "push".
Now KE is 1/2 *m*v^2, this is what determines impact power. A heavier bullet for a given Kinetic energy means you can have a slower velocity, vice versa, if you have a lighter bullet it needs to go faster for that same energy.
*There are a lot of simplifications in this.
Actual recoil, there's no way to get around Newton's laws and Force=Mass x acceleration. But then you have impulse which is force x time and this is where the perception of recoil comes into play. So if you decrease the time of that the force is applied you decrease the impulse, meaning the snappy feel you get with lighter bullet weights versus the "push".
Now KE is 1/2 *m*v^2, this is what determines impact power. A heavier bullet for a given Kinetic energy means you can have a slower velocity, vice versa, if you have a lighter bullet it needs to go faster for that same energy.
*There are a lot of simplifications in this.
NCooper
Member
The question we should be asking the OP is are you experiencing recoil or muzzle flip?
Rastoff
US Veteran
First of all, it's not as simple as just bullet size. There's more to it.
As posted above, recoil is simply the third law of motion; for every action, there is an equal and opposing reaction. Thus, a 115 grain bullet traveling at 1,800fps will have the same recoil as a 230 grain bullet traveling at 900fps.
But, there's more to the story. Recoil is just the force that is produced. Felt Recoil is what you actually feel. That is often different for every shooter. It is dependent on several factors; grip, stance, fit and yes, even state of mind.
If you were to hold the gun at the bottom of the grip with one hand, you might say it had a lot of recoil. Holding it this way would have a lot of muzzle rise/flip and it might even come out of your hand. Hold it as high as you can get your hand and use your other hand for support and you'll feel much less recoil. Even though it's the same gun, with the same rounds, it's easy to see how the recoil is perceived differently just because of grip.
As posted above, recoil is simply the third law of motion; for every action, there is an equal and opposing reaction. Thus, a 115 grain bullet traveling at 1,800fps will have the same recoil as a 230 grain bullet traveling at 900fps.
But, there's more to the story. Recoil is just the force that is produced. Felt Recoil is what you actually feel. That is often different for every shooter. It is dependent on several factors; grip, stance, fit and yes, even state of mind.
If you were to hold the gun at the bottom of the grip with one hand, you might say it had a lot of recoil. Holding it this way would have a lot of muzzle rise/flip and it might even come out of your hand. Hold it as high as you can get your hand and use your other hand for support and you'll feel much less recoil. Even though it's the same gun, with the same rounds, it's easy to see how the recoil is perceived differently just because of grip.
Beartooth Bullets > Ballistician's Corner > Recoil Calculator
You need to look up some loads so you can add the correct powder weight for the calculator to be accurate. (Powder becomes expanding gas and is expelled with the bullet and becomes part of the energy.) Then you can experiment and see the recoil energy of several loads for yourself.
One thing I have found is that perception is important and for many people the total experience is hard to split out. Recoil, muzzle lift and muzzle blast all add to how you percieve recoil. Many people feel that a .45 acp fired in a revolver recoils less than than the same load fired in an autoloader because of the slide cycling.
You need to look up some loads so you can add the correct powder weight for the calculator to be accurate. (Powder becomes expanding gas and is expelled with the bullet and becomes part of the energy.) Then you can experiment and see the recoil energy of several loads for yourself.
One thing I have found is that perception is important and for many people the total experience is hard to split out. Recoil, muzzle lift and muzzle blast all add to how you percieve recoil. Many people feel that a .45 acp fired in a revolver recoils less than than the same load fired in an autoloader because of the slide cycling.
Pisgah
Member
Forget actual calculated recoil. It often has little to do with what you feel. I have always found 147 gr. 9mm loads to feel a bit more comfortable than 115 gr. in the same gun. I believe it is because, even though the numbers may say the recoil is greater, the timing of the recoil is sort of spread out over a fraction of time as compared to lighter bullet loads, lending more of a push than an abrupt smack. Of course, neither is anything close to a hand-breaker.
When I had my .40 the 180 grain bullets felt like they were "softer" recoil wise than the 155 grain bullets. Both types of bullets were WWB, fmj ball ammo.
My grip is good and nice and high. Please remember I shot USPSA with the likes of Scott Warren and Taran Butler for over 10 years. While I am not as good a shot as they are, they were not going to let me get away with rookie mistakes. I was only 1 of 5 woman shooting in the Southwest Pistol Leauge at the time, and the youngest by far. So I was like everyone's kid sister.
I don't have time to get into the physics of this right now, but the difference in perceived recoil is as BlueOvalBandit and others have alluded to.
The length of time the recoil impulse occurs is a large factor to the felt recoil.
Lighter bullets can be moved down the barrel faster without creating excessive pressure. The recoil impulse is sharper.
I'd like to get into kinetic energy, mass, force and inertia, which I find fascinating, but don't have time this am...
Always love your questions AGoyette!
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The length of time the recoil impulse occurs is a large factor to the felt recoil.
Lighter bullets can be moved down the barrel faster without creating excessive pressure. The recoil impulse is sharper.
I'd like to get into kinetic energy, mass, force and inertia, which I find fascinating, but don't have time this am...
Always love your questions AGoyette!
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old&slow
Member
I'm not a lawyer , nor do I play one on TV. So, I don't know anything about Newton's law or the laws of Physics. 
I do know that a 230gr 45 ACP @ 760 fps with a power factor of 175,000 ( weight x velocity= power factor) will take a bowling pin off the table better and with less perceived recoil than a 200 gr bullet @ 875 fps with a power factor of 175,000.
Also a lot of shooters using non compensated firearms in USPSA will use a heavier bullet to make the required power factor with less perceived recoil. ( Comp. guns are a whole different critter )
A 115 gr 9mm @ 1100 fps will probably feel snappy compared to a 147 gr @ 860 fps. both 126,500 pf.
But, a light bullet and heavy bullet going the same velocity the light bullet will kick less.
I do know that a 230gr 45 ACP @ 760 fps with a power factor of 175,000 ( weight x velocity= power factor) will take a bowling pin off the table better and with less perceived recoil than a 200 gr bullet @ 875 fps with a power factor of 175,000.
Also a lot of shooters using non compensated firearms in USPSA will use a heavier bullet to make the required power factor with less perceived recoil. ( Comp. guns are a whole different critter )
A 115 gr 9mm @ 1100 fps will probably feel snappy compared to a 147 gr @ 860 fps. both 126,500 pf.
But, a light bullet and heavy bullet going the same velocity the light bullet will kick less.
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Out of my 3913, 147gn Gold Dots seem to have a little less snap than the 124gn Blazer Brass stuff. They definitely have a little less snap/recoil than some 124gn +P HST's I've fired, but certainly nothing to call for a press conference outside the range about.
IMO though, regular 115gn 9mm practice ammo is softer shooting than any of the above.
ETA:All of it is soft shooting in my 5906!
IMO though, regular 115gn 9mm practice ammo is softer shooting than any of the above.
ETA:All of it is soft shooting in my 5906!
OLDandSLow got it right. Here's the rest of the story.
I am a no kidding physicist and pistol competitor. What you partially heard but did not understand is that "Two pistol loads having the same power factor, the heavier bullet kicks less." BECAUSE THE HEAVIER BULLET WILL BE GOING SLOWER IF THE POWER FACTOR IS THE SAME.
"POWER FACTOR" is momentum in odd units. Multiply bullet weight in grains by speed in fps and divide by 1000.
The recoil impulse generated by a gun is NOT the same as the momentum transfer, and is more related to energy. ENERGY is weight times speed times speed, so a faster bullet generates more energy than a slower bullet at the same momentum.
Clear as mud? Well, the bottom line is competitors who handload can load a 40 cal bullet to minor power(probably using a softer recoil spring), and generate a softer recoil than a 9mm at the same power factor. How important is that? Well, to me a minor power 9mm recoil is no problem and I shoot 9mm.
You pays your money and you makes your choices.
And beware of "half truths!"
Here's a handy calculator that gives you 3 measures of recoil: Impulse, recoil velocity, and free recoil energy. (Read disclaimer on "felt recoil")
http://handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
Notice you need WEIGHT of bullet, SPEED of bullet, and amount of powder used, since the powder is also ejected forward.
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thebeamanater107
US Veteran
I edited out my reply when I was told I'm wrong. 
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
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thebeamanater107
US Veteran
Well I'll remove it then. My opinion can stay with me
the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
ammodave
Member
Forget the physics. I suspect the OP is primarily concerned with her perceived recoil. Try a simple test: have someone else load your magazine with a variety of ammo with different bullet weights and have him keep track of where the different cartridges are in the magazine. Now, shoot the pistol and make a note of the perceived recoil with each round fired. After shooting several magazines, pick the round that feels best to you.
Right out of my mouth, ammodave.
As at least one person mentioned, powder/burn rate. It makes a big difference in felt recoil. For instance, without look up at burn rates I think Bullseye is very fast and Clays is slower. Clays in my .45acp's feels really smooth and soft. Bullseye feels crisps and much heavier hitting. So many factors are considered. If you are referring to different weights through the same gun, you have to consider powder too. One person mentioned a heavy bullet moving 900 and a lighter bullet moving 1800. That is a very highly unlikely scenario. I don't think you'll find any bullet at any weight in a .45 acp traveling 1800 FPS, while many of my heavier bullets will travel over 900.
Bore height, grip positions, bone support, powder type and volume, bullet weight, the shooters strength and your stance are a few factors to mitigate recoil. I'm sure I'm missing 1000 other factors. I'm no pro and certainly not an engineer.
Bore height, grip positions, bone support, powder type and volume, bullet weight, the shooters strength and your stance are a few factors to mitigate recoil. I'm sure I'm missing 1000 other factors. I'm no pro and certainly not an engineer.
jimmib
US Veteran
I think she quit reading a long time....
I think she quit reading a long time....
You comment, I will read it. I find it all interesting, especially since I just used up the last of my bullets and I need to get more.
