Duty to inform?

Wow, I'm sure glad I live where I do. The cops respect us, and we respect the cops, pretty simple. I've been living in my present location for 16 years, belong to a gun club with over 500 members who all live within a 20 mile radius. I've NEVER heard of one time when there's been any sort of confrontation between any of them and the cops. That sort of thing would spread like wildfire.
In fact, the police chief, along with every local politician, comes to the local Friends of the NRA dinner every year.
I leave my house and the thought of getting hassled by the cops is nonexistant.
I stay out of NYC as much as possible, life outside the city is a whole nuther world. YMMV

I think you are familiar enough with my posts to know that I have nothing but respect for officers.

I really can't see where pointing out problems is "cop bashing."

I don't know what prompted OIF2 to such a degree of truculence. There is just no doubt but what there is a problem in certain jurisdictions. Cobb County and Glynn County Georgia are a couple that come to mind.

There have been some bad stories from Columbus, GA PD too.
 
Sounds like you want him shot at dawn, for yelling and cursing at someone.
"Yelling and cursing"?

You're being a little bit less than candid, aren't you?

What ACTUALLY did he say? You can't quote him verbatim, because it would be a violation of the TOS here, wouldn't it?

But let's say you left out the gratuitous obscenities and kept the "meat". What would happen to you if you walked up to a random cop on the street and said those EXACT words?

Better yet, how about if you sent them as an email or letter to the President?

Feel free to explain how aggravated assault and terroristic threats are bad when a citizen does them to a cop, but good when a cop does them to a citizen.

Take as much room as you need.
 
Back to the original question:
Mississippi does not require you to notify, however, a Mississippi Firearms Permit has the same number as a Mississippi Driver's License. If the officer runs a license check, he/she will know that you possess a Firearms Permit; you may or may not be asked whether you have a weapon with you.
 
Back to the original question:
Mississippi does not require you to notify, however, a Mississippi Firearms Permit has the same number as a Mississippi Driver's License. If the officer runs a license check, he/she will know that you possess a Firearms Permit; you may or may not be asked whether you have a weapon with you.
If asked, you should reply truthfully.

That's one of the angles being pursued here in Ohio, namely to remove the requirement for unsolicited notification, to be replaced by a requirement to notify IF AND ONLY IF ASKED.

That way the nonsense of the undefined "promptly notify" and the demonstrated potential for abuse are eliminated.
 
I think you are familiar enough with my posts to know that I have nothing but respect for officers.

Mark, I have not suggested you DON'T have respect for police officers. I said where I live we respect them and they respect us, obviously not applicable outside my area. Seems all the arguments come in when people assume someone is attempting to force their life experiences on others. I just stated how things were here where I live.
Maybe you took offense to my comment "pretty simple", if so, it was most likely a poor choice of words, I retract it.
 
cmort666, I got cursed, hit and spit upon quite often. It came with the territory. Why are you so angry? I keep saying the Ohio cop screwed up, but you won't believe me. What do you want done to him?
I've had people walk up to me during demonstrations and insult me multiple times. Not a big deal. Why do you hate cops so much? Where did the "aggravated assault" and "terroristic threats", etc. come from? Again, I thought this a thread on informing. Get a grip, dude. Feel free to PM if you want to rant on. People are getting bored.
Bob
 
I said where I live we respect them and they respect us, obviously not applicable outside my area.
I believe you. I never had a problem with either the Berea, Ohio or Fremont, Ohio police.

The problem comes in where somebody (not you) puffs himself up and tells a bunch of people who already know better, that "X doesn't happen ANYWHERE because it doesn't happen HERE." Or he says, "It didn't happen to you, who cares?" I didn't get shot with those cops in that cafe in Seattle. I still care.

When someone portrays himself as a member of a caste above and better than others, immune from criticism by virtue of his membership in that caste, it provokes animosity in those being talked down to. And it ought to.
 
You have the kind of police that you demand.

Cities, and the citizens that live in them, give tacit approval to the methods used by the police agencies in those cities. If a police agency uses certain tactics or engages in certain behaviors, and the citizens do nothing about it, the citizens have given de facto approval for those practices to continue. If the citizens attempt to do something about it, they have put the police department on notice that such practices will not be tolerated. It cases such as NOPD, Atlanta, and other high profile cases, it is easy to say that such practices should be abolished. No one really wants their local PD to be running drugs, committing murders, etc. However, it never starts there, it always starts smaller. Sometimes it is as simple as a local ordinance that says all residents shall provide identification when asked by a LEO. Seems easy enough, right? After all, we have a lot of problems associated with transient homeless and this will allow the PD to get a handle on it. And while we're at it, a curfew to help eliminate the local gangs. As time goes on, more practices and policies are set in place, all in the name of crime prevention. In time, a "Prince of the City" mentality can develop in certain organizations or in specific units. "Hey, we're the Po-Leece, we can do what we want." I've seen it happen. The only solution to preventing such situations is active citizen involvement at the local government level. How many of you attend local city or county council meetings? How many of you have attended a local citizen's Police Academy, or a Ride-Along program? And how many of you never get upset at what an Agency does until it infringes on YOUR rights? It's okay for the local cops to roust the teenagers hanging out at the local Dairy Whip at midnight, after all, those kids aren't up to any good anyway. Well, if you give tacit approval to harassing kids who aren't breaking any laws, that approval will soon extend to other groups as well. I used to work a beat that had an elementary school in it that had a basketball goal. The kids from a local apartment complex used to come over and shoot hoops at night, with the approval of the principal. They played at night because it was cooler. I had numerous calls from the local homeowners in the area wanting me to "run those kids off." I always had to respond, meet with the homeowner, explain that the kids weren't doing anything illegal and I had NO reason to run them off. Virtually every homeowner I dealt with wanted them run off anyway because they "were just going to cause trouble" and "they'd be doing something wrong soon enough." I'd just leave, and wave at the kids on my way by. But if you extend their argument to its logical conclusion, then yes, it would be okay to stop citizens based on color or race, to roust the homeless, to demand to see "your papers, please." And all in the name of "Crime Prevention", that Holy Grail of law-abiding citizens and Police Departments everywhere. Ain't never gonna happen, folks, we're never going to prevent crime. You can prevent a crime, but not crime itself. Okay, I guess I've ranted in long enough in trying to say this: As private citizens, you will get the Police Department that you allow to exist. Just be careful what you wish for.
 
Where did the "aggravated assault" and "terroristic threats", etc. come from?
You have NO idea what that cop REALLY said, DO you?

You sound like a baffled Japanese high school student who thinks that the Bataan Death March was some ceremonial procession.

Here's an idea: Actually WATCH THE VIDEO.
 
an alarming trend began here in the Seattle /Tacoma area. First a Seattle PD officer was shot and killed and his partner wounded. Soon after 4 Lakewood WA officers were shot and killed while having coffee. All were targeted just because they were cops....no traffic stop, no pursuit.....they were hunted down at random....

One killer was a student , a 'constitional law' nut job.

Next a career criminal paroled in Arkansas ...(by former Gov. Huckabee!)...decided he was going to kill police....he was shot while trying to kill a 5th officer, who was alert and saved the citizens a costly death penalty trial...the killer announced his intentions to his family the day before...they did nothing to stop him("us v the police" mentality)

again these killings were not preceded by a crime...they were assasinations....

you may want to look at things from the officer's POV....you might not look like the Boy Scout you once were....
 
You have NO idea what that cop REALLY said, DO you?

You sound like a baffled Japanese high school student who thinks that the Bataan Death March was some ceremonial procession.

Here's an idea: Actually WATCH THE VIDEO.

I did, Brother. I can deal with the insults; but you still didn't answer the questions: what's the solution, and what more do you want done to this policeman?
Bob
 
C-Sire, our Sheriff is a man I coached in High School baseball, and I taught several of his deputies, including the Chief. We have a very good relationship. When he was elected six years ago, he started what has been a very successful campaign against what had become a pretty bad drug problem. I speak to him often. He is very pro-gun, and laughs when I ask him if he is going to frisk me when he stops me. I always tell him that I'm proud of what he has accomplished during his tenure, but that I want him to really be careful about crossing the line from good enforcement practices to harassment of the citizenry. He laughs, but he knows I'm dead serious. I am also good friends with the Chief of Police in both towns close to me. I coached and taught the Chief in one town, and the Assistant Chief in the other. I regularly tell them how proud I am that my students are in such esteemed positions, and that I hope they remember what I taught them about the Constitution in their PoliSci class. They laugh, but they know I am serious. I have to say, they seem to be doing a good job of enforcement, within the bounds of their department policies and state law.

I would be very surprised to hear of much harassment of legal carriers in the rural sections. We all have multiple guns in our vehicles. It would be unusual to find a vehicle without a firearm. A few months back, one of the deputies walked over to my pickup and stuck his head in the passenger window while I was at a convenience store. I was taking some guns to the country to put in the safe there. I had three handguns, a rifle and a shotgun in view. He glanced at them, carried on a conversation for a few minutes, and told me to drive safely.

There is one thing that I wish departments would do. They should make sure their officers know state law regarding firearms carry. It is often said that "ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it." That should apply to officers as well as citizens.
 
Here is another one: of course, some people will surely dismiss them all as internet rumor.

Tonight I was driving my car down Chastain Lakes Rd in Kennesaw at 1am. I just drove past the wal-mart when I see another car approaching. I am going slightly above the speed limit, but I haven't seen a car since I exited 575. As I passed the car I realized it was Cobb Co. PD and I decreased my speed slightly to speed limit. I watched my mirrors and saw him loop around. He sped up on me and I put on my signal before his lights even went on. Sure enough BLUE LIGHTS. Since I work in Buckhead, handle large sums of money and leave at 1am, I carry my main, and a back-up because you never know.
He approaches my car and the dialog begins
Cop 1: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: Please tell me, but my guess is speeding.
C1: Do you know the speed limit on Chastain Rd?(We were on Chastain Lakes...)
Me:45
C1: I clocked you going 68.
Me: Really? I'm sure I wasn't going that fast.
C1: I need your license.
Me: Sure thing.(I hand him my license and GFL)
C1: Do you have a gun?
Me: I have 2, one on my hip. Backup on my ankle.(My hands have not left my steering wheel except to give him my license. He runs my permit, comes back valid)
C1: Why do you have 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C1: Ok, keep your hands visible, I'm going to ask you to step out of the car.
Me: ok(I wait for him to open the door)
C1: how do you open your door?
Me: Pull the handle...
C1: Ok put you hands on your head and face away from me.(At this point his gun is drawn and pointed at my head).

<snip>



Putting a gun to someone's head is serious business. At what point does a situation change from one of cooperation to that of fearing for safety and actionable self defense?
 
I did, Brother. I can deal with the insults; but you still didn't answer the questions: what's the solution, and what more do you want done to this policeman?
Bob
If the ONLY thing you THINK he did was "curse", you were watching an ENTIRELY different video. Walk up to a cop and say the same things. Tell us how that goes for you.
  1. The cop needs to be fired.
  2. The cop needs to be prosecuted for the assault and associated crimes.
  3. The cop needs to be prosecuted for the injury inflicted by the handcuffs.
  4. The cop's previous complaints need to be reopened to see what didn't make it onto the dashcam (which he was previously reprimanded for not turning on).
  5. The cop's personnel file needs to be CLOSELY examined to see if his chain of command willfully ignored misconduct. If so, THEY need to be fired and or prosecuted.
I'd say that's a good START.

And as I said, try emailing the President what Harless said to the victim as your own words. I suspect that your posts here will cease... maybe for quite a while.
 
but you still didn't answer the questions: what's the solution, and what more do you want done to this policeman?
Bob

Does this mean that you now acknowledge that there is a fairly widespread amount of these abuses taking place?

I would like to see that officer removed from the ranks of LEO. I think there could possibly be criminal charges against him, but I would let that pass.

What's the solution? Officers need to realize that the CCW is an official document, that the holder went through a due process in acquiring it, and that it does indeed mean something when a traffic violator presents it. I think officers should not pursue searches and questioning beyond asking for license and registration if they do not have reasonable suspicion to go beyond that. I think officers should not be OK with disarming a legally carrying citizen, separating his guns and ammo, and threatening to arrest him if he stops to retrieve his guns from the trunk. I think officers should know the law in their state and abide by that law. Officers have great leeway on what they can do during a stop, and they don't need to go beyond that. That means if there is no Reasonable Suspicion or Probable Cause, then they do not need to intimidate citizens into consenting to searches that amount to "fishing trips."

Far as citizens are concerned, they should know what is required of them by the law. They should cooperate with officers in the carrying out of this law. They should absolutely not try to provoke confrontations.

In short, officers should respect citizens, and citizens should respect officers, just as ladder13 suggested.
 
Does this mean that you now acknowledge that there is a fairly widespread amount of these abuses taking place?

I would like to see that officer removed from the ranks of LEO. I think there could possibly be criminal charges against him, but I would let that pass.

What's the solution? Officers need to realize that the CCW is an official document, that the holder went through a due process in acquiring it, and that it does indeed mean something when a traffic violator presents it. I think officers should not pursue searches and questioning beyond asking for license and registration if they do not have reasonable suspicion to go beyond that. I think officers should not be OK with disarming a legally carrying citizen, separating his guns and ammo, and threatening to arrest him if he stops to retrieve his guns from the trunk. I think officers should know the law in their state and abide by that law. Officers have great leeway on what they can do during a stop, and they don't need to go beyond that. That means if there is no Reasonable Suspicion or Probable Cause, then they do not need to intimidate citizens into consenting to searches that amount to "fishing trips."

Far as citizens are concerned, they should know what is required of them by the law. They should cooperate with officers in the carrying out of this law. They should absolutely not try to provoke confrontations.

In short, officers should respect citizens, and citizens should respect officers, just as ladder13 suggested.

Hi redlevel
That was a thoughtful and reasoned response, as was the one from cmort666, prior to yours. As far as being a widespread problem, I can't answer that (and neither can you, based on anecdotal evidence). I can only attest to what happened on my Dept, when I was there. I would imagine that there are issues with lots of departments; especially the smaller ones controlled by city or county entities. Looks like we're back on the road to a reasoned exchanged of ideas. I've been around A LOT of cops over a period of 24+ years, though, and know how they think. This is a good place to find out; in other words, don't tune up the messanger.
Bob
 

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