Early Post-War Military & Police values?

[larryofcc]

Larry

Good info. But you should check that stock circle medallion with a magnet. I've never encountered one that was aluminum. It should be milled steel.

Correctamundo. Just looks like aluminum. I would have had a hard time believing that they actually put prewar stocks on post war guns if they had not been numbered to the gun. I also have another 1946 gun with the blued stock circles and the hole for the domed screw, but it has post war checkering. They are also numbered to the gun. Big Larry

 

[JP@AK]

I would have had a hard time believing that they actually put prewar stocks on post war guns if they had not been numbered to the gun.

In my database, I have documented more than 50 postwar M&P units that shipped with the prewar style Magna stocks. None of them shipped later than April, 1946. There are also quite a few revolvers in the serial range encompassed by that group which no longer have their original stocks, so I suspect the total number that shipped with them will remain unknown. But it is more than a few.

Note: We don't know whether these were actually prewar Magna stocks that were found after the war and installed on postwar guns or if the earliest postwar stocks were simply checked in the prewar style. There has been some debate about that question, shored up by an extant letter from the early 1940s, stating that there were no more prewar Magna stocks in inventory. What we cannot know, unless new information is forthcoming, is whether someone found a cache of them after the war and then used them up. I tend to believe that is a possible explanation, but it is just a guess. Otherwise, we have to believe that for some reason, S&W had some prewar style stocks produced for a very short while in late 1945 or very early 1946, and then decided to reduce the checkered area and began turning out the postwar style stocks. People can argue this both ways until Doomsday, but pending discovery of some new info, we probably will never know the right answer.

Edit:
Since we like illustrations around here, I'm posting this picture for the upteenth time. It shows two M&Ps that shipped about one month apart (March and April, 1946). The top one (a 5" unit) is wearing correctly numbered prewar style Magna stocks; the bottom one (a 4" unit) is wearing a correctly numbered pair of the earliest style postwar Magna stocks.

 

[Slufstuff]

Interesting thread.

Jack, did any of the early post-war SV revolvers use the military style smooth grips? I have one that is in nice shape (SV 809,351 with plugged lanyard ring hole and S sideplate) but has the smooth grips. It was listed as having original grips, but I now think they were replaced at some point, based on the info in this thread.

 

[Retired W4]

Thanks for that picture Jack. Just today i was wondering how to tell pre-war from post-war magnas without taking them off the gun. My milled blued steel insert magnas, which I now understand are early post war, have the normal (if there is such a thing) reduced checkering area.

It's been good getting reacquainted with some guns that have been tucked away in the safe for a while.

 

[wbraswell]

That is a very nice looking M&P .38. Like most have said, they'd like it better if it were cheaper. Well, no kidding, wouldn't we all. When you're looking at it, and you want it, that makes it worth a little more. Try polite negotiation on the pricing, but think about how you might feel if someone else comes in and buys it. I've regreted the ones I didn't buy more than the ones I did. Just because it's not a bargain, doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it. I don't know where you are, so in your location, you may not see these often.

 

[elgatodeacero]

Another interesting variation is the late war SV prefix guns (commercial production) that left the factory with the post war satin blue, the lanyard loop removed and plugged and a S stamped on the side plate under the stock panel. For me they bring a slight premium, but they were all 4" guns. The experts feel free to correct me on this point, but it's a little off subject.

I have a 5" SV M&P in the 770XXX range in about 90% condition, and I have never seen another. I would not sell for $1000.

 

[JP@AK]

Jack, did any of the early post-war SV revolvers use the military style smooth grips? I have one that is in nice shape (SV 809,351 with plugged lanyard ring hole and S sideplate) but has the smooth grips.

One hesitates to say "never" in the S&W world. However, I have not seen, nor heard of, any postwar commercial .38 M&P that was sent to a distributor, police department or individual with smooth wartime stocks. None show up in my database.

The one you own (SV809351) is clearly a postwar commercial example (plugged swivel hole, etc.). The highest number that shipped to the Navy is SV802722, which shipped on August 13, 1945, to the Norfolk Navy Yard (note the significance of that date!).

Moreover, it is in the range of a large shipment that went to the NYPD in early 1946. I don't find that number listed in that shipment, but SV809352 and SV809354 are on that list. I have very little doubt that the stocks you describe are not original to that revolver.

I suspect, as you do, that someone put them on the gun later.

 

[Slufstuff]

One hesitates to say "never" in the S&W world. However, I have not seen, nor heard of, any postwar commercial .38 M&P that was sent to a distributor, police department or individual with smooth wartime stocks. None show up in my database.

The one you own (SV809351) is clearly a postwar commercial example (plugged swivel hole, etc.). The highest number that shipped to the Navy is SV802722, which shipped on August 13, 1945, to the Norfolk Navy Yard (note the significance of that date!).

Moreover, it is in the range of a large shipment that went to the NYPD in early 1946. I don't find that number listed in that shipment, but SV809352 and SV809354 are on that list. I have very little doubt that the stocks you describe are not original to that revolver.

I suspect, as you do, that someone put them on the gun later.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and info. I guess I need to decide whether to leave the smooth grips in place, or search for a correct (but misnumbered) pair of grips. Either option is not original, but I can get it looking more correct.

 

[larryofcc]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and info. I guess I need to decide whether to leave the smooth grips in place, or search for a correct (but misnumbered) pair of grips. Either option is not original, but I can get it looking more correct.

Aren't the smooth stocks numbered? Big Larry

 

[4K2022]

Yes, nice package. IF the box is numbered to the gun (in grease pencil on the bottom) and all the numbers match, including the stocks, I would go back with 8 crisp hundred dollar bills and see what they say. All they can say is NO. If it were me, and it's just me, I would have another hundred in my pocket, just because it goes well with others in my safe.

I always keep a 100 dollar bill in each boot for such occasions!
IMO ,, Buy it!

 

[Slufstuff]

Aren't the smooth stocks numbered? Big Larry

They are unnumbered, but well fitted. Most likely replaced at some point.