FBI selects new pistol to go with its 9mm ammo

[Texas Star]

Will special agents be able to carry POW's? (Means Personally Owned Weapons, in this usage.) Which ones?

BTW, congratulations to Brad and his SIG .45 on their retirement.

 

[sigp220.45]

Will special agents be able to carry POW's? (Means Personally Owned Weapons, in this usage.) Which ones?

BTW, congratulations to Brad and his SIG .45 on their retirement.

Thanks, my friend.

The POW program continues, but I think its time is coming to an end. Only the Glock 17, 19, 26, 27, 22, and 23 are on it now. Previously grandfathered .45 POWs (Glock 21s, Sig 220s, and Springfield 1911s) will be disapproved come October 1st. I think some grandfathered Sig 9mms and .40s will stay OK for a while, but I'm not sure.

I'm glad my 220 and I could finish out our time together.

 

[Irn-Bru]

My CZ's all shoot circles round my Glock 17 and 26.

 

[Absalom]

My CZ's all shoot circles round my Glock 17 and 26.

No, actually, YOU do. Big difference.

With my Colt Official Police, I shoot circles round myself with any M&P/Model 10 I own. The Colt just works better for me. That doesn't seem to have prevented something like 70 to 80% of US law enforcement from carrying S&W rather than Colt by the 1970s.

Individual anecdotal evidence and preference rarely has much relevance for large-scale institutional adoptions.

 

[Pointblank2U]

For my entire 23 year career in law enforcement I carried a GLOCK, first a Model 17 with a Model 26 for back up and the later a Model 22 with a Model 27 for back up. I stood on quarterly training firing lines for those 23 years and never had a FTF or FTE issue. In fact most of the alibi rounds I saw fired on either side of me were user error issues.

We never lost an officer to a gun fight and never had a failure to stop an armed encounter due to weapons failure. I relied on my GLOCK and never had any doubt it would preform if and when needed. No hearsay here either, just 23 years on the road in patrol.

I second that Brother..

 

[star1]

I feel it's too bad that they didn't award the contract to an AMERICAN manufacturer

 

[petepeterson]

It's good to hear that the US Gov't has extra cash laying around. I was getting nervous.

Was there a specific problem with the weapons they have now? In five years, we'll hear that they're going back to the 459 and Silvertips...then we can start all over again.

 

[Dennis The B]

I feel it's too bad that they didn't award the contract to an AMERICAN manufacturer

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Glock is an American manufacturer, just the way Beretta is an American manufacturer. Glocks are produced in Georgia, the same as Beretta's soon-to-be manufactured in Alabama. It's just the last dollar of profit goes back to Austria or Italy. The same is true of Japanese, German, and Korean car makers.

 

[Will Carry]

I own handguns with better grips than a Glock, better triggers, that are more accurate than a Glock and so on, but the Glock is the one I want in a pistol fight.

 

[Arik]

It's good to hear that the US Gov't has extra cash laying around. I was getting nervous.

Was there a specific problem with the weapons they have now? In five years, we'll hear that they're going back to the 459 and Silvertips...then we can start all over again.

Lol!

I'm guessing they were taking old guns off the line and replacing with new. While at it they changed calibers

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Arik]

I feel it's too bad that they didn't award the contract to an AMERICAN manufacturer

Border patrol uses HK.

Secret Service use Sig

When you have to rely on a firearm as a tool what difference does is it who manufactured it?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Muley Gil]

The majority of the officers at my old PD carried Glocks, in about all of the calibers available. The biggest problem I saw was the "weak wrist" malfunction. Once corrected with a firmer grip, those went away.

While I was on a UN police mission in Kosovo, the American officers carried Beretta 92s. When we had range day, those that had not oiled their sidearms had failure to feed problems. All of us range officers carried bottles of gun oil. A few drops of oil on the slide rails fixed that issue.

 

[ispcapt]

We were issued S&W autos in 9mm for 32 years. The director decided we would be going to .40 so the testing began. I was commanding our R&D at the time. We asked for samples and got 15 different guns from various manufacturers. We sent them around the state and any Troop could come to their range and evaluate. After a year of testing the top 3 scorers were the SIG, S&W and Glock. We requested bids from the top 3. Our request was to turn in our old 5904/6904 and receive 2553 new guns, holsters, 750 rds of training ammo per Troop and 2 yrs of service ammo. Glock came in with a bid of $250,000. S&W's was double that. SIG's bid was double S&W's bid at about $1.1 mil. While SIG came out #1 in our testing and preference there's no way you can legally justify going with the high bidder if you've already said others have products that meet your demands. People go to jail for bid rigging.
Some have asked why agencies trade guns so often. Very good reason. Night sights have a life of about 12-15 yrs. We swapped guns every 7-10 yrs. When we put out bids we could get new guns with new night sights for the same price as getting new night sights and installing them on new guns. That deal is a no brainer. New guns with new sights v old guns with swapped out sights for the same price. Our last swap out cost us $53 per gun.

 

[JJEH]

In the end it's all about the mighty dollar, period. Do I like it? No. Can I change it? No. So it is what it is...

Glock does their homework and that's why they are still successful and can be found in many PD's or federal agencies.

 

[Absalom]

It's good to hear that the US Gov't has extra cash laying around. I was getting nervous.

Was there a specific problem with the weapons they have now? In five years, we'll hear that they're going back to the 459 and Silvertips...then we can start all over again.

If you're worried about wasting money, your concern can be much more profitably employed elsewhere; this whole thing costs less than the cost overruns on a few F-22's or F-35's.....

From everything I've been able to discern, this is mostly a big deal on the usual hyperventilating gun blogs and among overly excitable internet "experts". The fact that the "new" gun is a newer version of the old gun is already by far the most rational and cost-effective choice that could have been made, with minimal changes in training, materials, tools, armorer support, etc. Sigp.220.45 can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the FBI introduces "new" guns by simply starting to issue the new gun to the new starting classes of agents, not by collecting and scrapping everyone's current gun. So I don't have any particular anxiety about my taxes being wasted in this case.

 

[Donn]

So the FBI chose the Glock 9mm. It's a fine piece with a proven track record. Do I own one? No, as I've mentioned before, my issue isn't with the product, it's with Gaston. A despicable human being IMHO. Getting back to the original subject at hand. When was the last time anyone here based their next purchase on what the FBI or and other government entity does? I buy & carry what I like, what suits me.

 

[Old cop]

When my agency initially went with the Glock 19 we had no gun related problems, but the 9mm ammo of the time was inadequate when compared to our .38 +P FBI load. Glock offered to swap out the 19 for the Gen 2 G23 in .40 at no charge. I retired in 1997 and my agency continues to issue the Glock 23 to everyone, and the Glock 22 to SWAT personnel. Glock seems to have good marketing and service after the sale that has cornered the law enforcement market.

 

[sigp220.45]

If you're worried about wasting money, your concern can be much more profitably employed elsewhere; this whole thing costs less than the cost overruns on a few F-22's or F-35's.....

From everything I've been able to discern, this is mostly a big deal on the usual hyperventilating gun blogs and among overly excitable internet "experts". The fact that the "new" gun is a newer version of the old gun is already by far the most rational and cost-effective choice that could have been made, with minimal changes in training, materials, tools, armorer support, etc. Sigp.220.45 can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the FBI introduces "new" guns by simply starting to issue the new gun to the new starting classes of agents, not by collecting and scrapping everyone's current gun. So I don't have any particular anxiety about my taxes being wasted in this case.

You're right. The .40s in service now will be replaced over the next five years or so through attrition. New agents will get the 9mms first. Eventually anyone who wants one will be able to get one, but since we still have .40 ammo around to burn up there will be no hurry.

We were going to have to buy guns anyway, so this makes sense. Existing leather gear will work, and the ammo cost for 9mm is cheaper. When you buy ammo by the traincar load it adds up.

This switch to 9mm was never about recoil or agents having trouble qualifying with the .40s. I was a Firearms Instructor as an additional duty during most of my 25 years with the Bureau and the "snappy" recoil I read so much about was never an issue. Its about money.

Each agent shoots about 1000 rounds per year in qualifications, and right now there about 12,000 agents. New agents in training at Quantico shoot about 1000 rounds a week for most of the 22 week course, 30-40 trainees per class with classes starting every 2 weeks. SWAT agents shoot more than that, and HRT guys go through ammo like nobody's business. The cost of new guns pales in comparison to the cost of feeding them.

Our ammo budget has been cut every year for the last decade or so, in favor of tech gizmos, training, operational travel, and salaries for the gazillion unarmed analysts we've hired to squint at computer screens. If switching to 9mm will help stay ahead of the budget axe, I'm fine with it.

 

[Mainsail]

I bought a new G17 back in 1986 for $286 at a gun shop in Lawton OK, and kept it until 2004 when I sold it for more than I paid. I used the funds to buy a Sig P239 and was amazed at how much my groups improved. My G17 groups looked like a blast of buckshot on the target while the P239 target has the holes group nicely and some actually touching. I don't suck as bad as I thought.

Glocks aren't substantially better or worse than other options. My FFL friend shoots glocks exclusively and he's good with them; I'm not so I bought a P320 recently.

The problem isn't that the FBI went with glocks, it's that they are forcing their agents to take them. You should be able to choose the gun that best suits you, after all it's your life on the line.

 

[apollo99]

I think the FBI and a lot of other departments still remember the aftermath of the 1986 Miami shootout. There is a big problem when officers are allowed to carry different weapon systems,and calibers. In a SHTF situation such as Miami. I would hope when a brother officer throws me a magazine, it fits and is the same caliber. In this climate we are entering into today, this is becoming more and more a reality. I don't mind a Glock, they do work and they are pretty near fool proof.