shil
Member
Does anyone out there know if Federal "Range and Training" .45ACP ammo has large or small primers?
Federal .45ACP
- Thread starter shil
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Huh? Are any US makers using small primers in 45's or is that just an option for handloaders from the brass makers? EDIT OK I found this article from ten years ago. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/small-vs-large-pistol-primers-45-acp/99626 that is informative about it. I myself have not been shooting mine enough to have encountered that issue. I suppose the worrisome issue is that they might be loading different lots of the same ammo with one or the other depending on availability these days. And sellers are usually averse to letting customers open the boxes to check the ammo. Because if the box looks tampered with, people turn up their noses or worry about it. I quit loading 45 years ago and when I shoot it is just cheap ball for practice. I don't salvage the brass anymore or check for anything but an obviously damaged case or primer.
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gwpercle
Member
I don't know for 100 % certain but ammo sold as "green " with lead free primers ... will most likely be "small " ... see if the advertising says lead free primers ...if it does ... assume small unless you can eyeball the ammo ... and make certain 4-sure .
If no mention of lead free primers ... assume Large ...
but these days the only real way to know is to look atthem !
My old Daddy always told me to "assume nothing !"
Gar
If no mention of lead free primers ... assume Large ...
but these days the only real way to know is to look atthem !
My old Daddy always told me to "assume nothing !"
Gar
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I have found that some manufactures are using both, if someone looks at the box they have and say they use large primers that doesn't mean the next guy won't have small primers.
I am not sure if Federal uses both or not.
while having both sizes is a PITA, I separate and keep both, one never knows what primers will be available.
you might be able to call federal and ask.
I am not sure if Federal uses both or not.
while having both sizes is a PITA, I separate and keep both, one never knows what primers will be available.
you might be able to call federal and ask.
I can't say for sure about their Training stuff but I haven't seen any large primer Federal 45ACP in years…
Thanks, Everyone. I do reload .45acp, thus far with large primers. I really don't want to deal with the annoyance of two primer sizes for the same caliber. For me, primer size is therefore a factor if buying some fresh ammo, or, plundering the brass buckets (when no one's looking) at the indoor range.
The Norseman
Member
Versatility
I like the versatility of the small primer 45ACPs.
Small Pistol Primers (SPP) or Small Rifle Primers
(SRP) can be used in a pinch.
I don't mix and match my reloads, and
would never mix SPPs and SRPs. I keep
all my batches of reloads separated and
well taged.
The Best to you and your Endeavors.
I like the versatility of the small primer 45ACPs.
Small Pistol Primers (SPP) or Small Rifle Primers
(SRP) can be used in a pinch.
I don't mix and match my reloads, and
would never mix SPPs and SRPs. I keep
all my batches of reloads separated and
well taged.
The Best to you and your Endeavors.
I think all of Federal's current 45 ACP line uses small pistol primers. Shortly before the panicdemic, I bought some 230 grain HST ammo and it has small primers. Speer (Federal, CCI/Speer, and Remington are owned by Vista Outdoor) also went to small primers in the 45 ACP.
I looked at some Federal ammo at Walmart several years ago and it was small primers.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Buy Starline brass or Midway USA has a Sale in progress.
Seems most are using small, but all of my Winchester .45 acp has large.
The Federal .45 HST that I bought a year or so before Covid has small pistol primers.
I think Winchester is also the only manufacturer still making a 230 grain FMJ load that is as close to a true duplicate of U.S. military spec 45 ACP ball ammo as you will find.
OK despite my prev post, I just realized I had a box of recent Fed. "Punch" 230 JHP and looked. Small primers sealed with green goo. Checked some WWB 230 JHP that I have had for awhile and it is large primer. Fiocchi 230 JHP I must have had for awhile ($18) large prim. Speer FMJ Lawman partial box large. The rest is stuff like GI match and standard so I have to admit this is my first encounter with 45 small primers.
I'm the same way. Federal is great ammo but I don't go for it usually because I don't reload small primer .45 either.
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Federal has used and does use BOTH small and large pistol primers. I have boxes of both and it seems they use what they feel like at the time. Mostly, AE uses large but I also have some small. Same is true with the regular Federal line, but now they seem to use small on their "training" 230 grain FMJ ammo.
Bottom line is...... check inside the box before buying. I will not buy small ones as I do not like mixing them up.
Bottom line is...... check inside the box before buying. I will not buy small ones as I do not like mixing them up.
hdfinder47
Member
Assuming small primers are less expensive and ignition is comparable, I wonder why the ammo manufacturers ever started using large primers to start with? Maybe it evolved from the size of the original center fire cases?
Ed
Ed
We would have to examine some documents from a very long time ago to explain that decision. Some expert ammo collector or something might know what is the reason that we have two sizes to begin with. But here is a SHOOTING TIMES article from ten years ago discussing the switchover: Fact or Fiction: Small vs. Large Pistol Primers in .45 ACP - Shooting Times
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I have some Federal 230 ball bought within the past year that is LP primed.
Model19man
Member
I threw away some CCI 45 ACP cases that were SPP maybe 30 years ago. Last time I picked any range brass up. Will watch if I pick any up in the future!
DWalt
Member
Some years ago I did a brief comparison between identical .45 loads, differing only in primer size. I think I used SR primers vs. LP primers. Not extensive testing, but clearly there were no significant differences in MV and grouping between them.
Originally, the small primers were used to distinguish between conventional and Lead-free .45 ammunition. I don't know if that is still the case. I load and use both sizes, I just segregate cases by primer pocket size. . Some believe that the small primers are better suited for use with high pressure .45 loads in any event, I really don't care which size primers I shoot. I generally use SRPs ito load all handgun cases having small primer pockets.
Originally, the small primers were used to distinguish between conventional and Lead-free .45 ammunition. I don't know if that is still the case. I load and use both sizes, I just segregate cases by primer pocket size. . Some believe that the small primers are better suited for use with high pressure .45 loads in any event, I really don't care which size primers I shoot. I generally use SRPs ito load all handgun cases having small primer pockets.
scattershot
Member
Federal HST ammo uses small primers, at least the ones I bought last week. Can't help with the training ammo, sorry.
Those of you who pitch small pistol ptimer brass, pitch it my way. I jave a stash of it.
Those of you who pitch small pistol ptimer brass, pitch it my way. I jave a stash of it.
I used to pitch my small pistol .45 brass, but I decided to keep it as my backup stash. .45 ACP is much less popular than it used to be, and as our supply of reloadable brass (the stuff others leave at the range) dwindles we'll need to be less picky.
AJ
US Veteran
While I do not care for the small primer versions of the .45 ACP or the 10MM (all that I have run across so far). I do not throw them out. I have separate containers for the small pistol versions. In the event that I am out of large pistol primers (heaven forbid), I can still load the small pistol primered versions.
If only there was a way for two guys to trade large primer brass for small primer brass, depending on which they prefer………
DWalt
Member
I do not understand the aversion of some to using small primer .45 ACP. All you need to do is segregate cases for reloading. Or is that too difficult for you to do?
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Back in the day I am guessing that the manufacturing cost difference between large and small primers were so negligible they cost the same price on the retail level. Now that is not true. Company's will always seek to cheapen their products in order to eek out whatever extra profit they can.
I do believe that the cases loaded with small primers would need a few grains more powder to provide the same ballistics as the large primed cases. At least that would make sense to me. Unless things have really changed, SD ammo still uses large primers while practice and range ammo uses small - at least for the most part. I suppose as long as the company's compensate the load spec's to duplicate the same ballistics, which primer they use is a non issue. Seems that eventually, all 45acp will be loaded with small primers unless they start getting under performance complaints.
I do believe that the cases loaded with small primers would need a few grains more powder to provide the same ballistics as the large primed cases. At least that would make sense to me. Unless things have really changed, SD ammo still uses large primers while practice and range ammo uses small - at least for the most part. I suppose as long as the company's compensate the load spec's to duplicate the same ballistics, which primer they use is a non issue. Seems that eventually, all 45acp will be loaded with small primers unless they start getting under performance complaints.
DWalt
Member
By my .45 tests, no significant difference in MV or grouping. Just as there is no significant difference between using SP vs SR primers for identical .38 Special loads. I determined that over 50 years ago. Back in the "early" days, ammunition manufacturers used .357 and .38 Super cases with LP primers. Then switched to SP primers. No idea why.
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AJ
US Veteran
No particular aversion to using it. Just not enough of it on hand. I only find a few here and there, those are usually when I am priming .45ACP with large primer pockets. Since these have been cleaned, sized, and belled, I put them in a separate container. At some point I will use them, but with about 80 pounds of large primer pocketed .45 ACP, why?
gwpercle
Member
I save the small primer 45 brass for the next ...
and you know it's comming ...
Primer Shortage !
Run short of large primers ... I'll break out the small primer brass ...
and carry on reloading 'em like I got good sense !
I kind of like being ambidexterous with 45 acp !
Gary
and you know it's comming ...
Primer Shortage !
Run short of large primers ... I'll break out the small primer brass ...
and carry on reloading 'em like I got good sense !
I kind of like being ambidexterous with 45 acp !
Gary
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