Federal American Eagle 230 ball vs. Winchester Service Grade 230 ball

[rockquarry]

I usually shoot cast only in handguns but had some of each of these factory ammos on hand. I didn't measure groups sizes, but at 25 yards bullseye style, the Winchester was far more accurate than the Federal, almost like a target load. I had anticipated they would be similar in accuracy. Muzzle velocity of the Winchester averaged 862, Federal, 833.

 

[biku324]

I use Winchester RED45 FMJFP for exactly the above reasons plus the flat point.

 

[chief38]

Hmmmm, I normally shoot my own reloads out of all my 1911's but I also have both the Federal American Eagle and Winchester ammunition mentioned in the OP. Accuracy for me is pretty much equal and see no discernible difference there. I do however find that the AE is about 40-50 fps faster than the Winchester - at least the lots that I have. On the boxes I have, Federal AE states 890fps and the Winchester states 835fps. which I have found to be true by chronographing them both out of standard length 1911 barrels. Not only have I verified the AE is faster round, the recoil is also slightly more and can be felt when shooting. In fact I normally never carry a 1911 but once in a while I will go to the Range and will use the 1911 as a carry gun for that day - then I remember why I don't carry a 1911 - lol. I load the Federal AE 230 grain FMJ because I do find it a bit faster and I usually do not have any HP ammo in stock for the 1911's as I almost never carry one. With a 230 grain ball round I am not at all concerned that it will not expand.

In my experience usually a slower round of the same exact weight and configuration "should be" slightly more accurate so I would think the Winchester round would win in that category. That said, in practical testing I find little to no difference out of my 1911's.

If the velocity of the Federal AE rounds you tested is actually 833, I'd say either Federal has changed the spec's or that particular box or lot was not loaded correctly. Again, in my experience the AE has always been 5% faster but the lots I have are at least 8 years old now.

 

[rockquarry]

Hmmmm, I normally shoot my own reloads out of all my 1911's but I also have both the Federal American Eagle and Winchester ammunition mentioned in the OP. Accuracy for me is pretty much equal and see no discernible difference there. I do however find that the AE is about 40-50 fps faster than the Winchester - at least the lots that I have. On the boxes I have, Federal AE states 890fps and the Winchester states 835fps. which I have found to be true by chronographing them both out of standard length 1911 barrels. Not only have I verified the AE is faster round, the recoil is also slightly more and can be felt when shooting. In fact I normally never carry a 1911 but once in a while I will go to the Range and will use the 1911 as a carry gun for that day - then I remember why I don't carry a 1911 - lol. I load the Federal AE 230 grain FMJ because I do find it a bit faster and I usually do not have any HP ammo in stock for the 1911's as I almost never carry one. With a 230 grain ball round I am not at all concerned that it will not expand.

In my experience usually a slower round of the same exact weight and configuration "should be" slightly more accurate so I would think the Winchester round would win in that category. That said, in practical testing I find little to no difference out of my 1911's.

If the velocity of the Federal AE rounds you tested is actually 833, I'd say either Federal has changed the spec's or that particular box or lot was not loaded correctly. Again, in my experience the AE has always been 5% faster but the lots I have are at least 8 years old now.

Both ammos were purchased recently. They were fired from a fairly new Les Baer 1911 with 5" barrel. Chronograph was a LabRadar. As always , many variable factors here - gun, ammo, specs, etc. I happened to be chronographing some cast bullet handloads and included these factory ammos only as a matter of curiosity. To find the number variations between my testing and yours does not surprise me, especially when there is eight years difference in manufacture and/or purchase.

 

[chief38]

Both ammos were purchased recently. They were fired from a Les Baer 1911 with 5" barrel. Chronograph was a LabRadar.

Not doubting you - just surprised. Maybe Federal changed the spec's. 830 - 850 fps has always been standard for 230 grain, 45 acp ball ammo, and the fact that AE listed it as 890 always surprised me.

Just checked and Winchester is still listed as 835fps. and Federal AE still listed as 890. Yup - chronograph results do vary.

 

[stansdds]

890 fps for 45 ACP ball ammo, especially the cheaper stuff? What test barrel length, 7 inches maybe? The Winchester Service Grade line is supposed to be loaded to military specifications and most people report it is warmer than the white box ammo.

 

[rockquarry]

Chief- along similar lines and I've mentioned this on the forum previously...there are several Winchester 230 grain ball ammos. I've wondered if these aren't all the same but in different packaging. I have some older "white box" 230 ball but have not chronographed or tested for accuracy. However, there are one or two other Winchester 230 ball ammos. Prices are certainly different. Maybe this can be attributed to marketing. Any thoughts or experience?

 

[chief38]

890 fps for 45 ACP ball ammo, especially the cheaper stuff? What test barrel length, 7 inches maybe? The Winchester Service Grade line is supposed to be loaded to military specifications and most people report it is warmer than the white box ammo.

I have a bunch of 1911's and most are standard length barrels. I have 2 shorter ones as well (Commander and Officer's) but never chronographed rounds through those.

According to Federal's website on this AE ammo, they state that it is loaded to mimic their 45acp Hydroshock velocity and is suitable for SD applications. They do not state what barrel length they are testing it through, but no one else (except Buffalo Bore) usually does either. I can tell you when I shoot it it seems slightly snappier than the Winchester and Remington bullets do. In fact I shot my WWll Colt 1911 just a few weeks ago and shot both the Winchester and Federal loads - definitely a discernible difference. I almost never carry a 1911, but on the rare occasion I do load the AE bullets. I don't use HP ammo in a 1911 designed over 100 years ago when HP's did not exist. I know many have no issue with HP's in 1911's, but with a 45acp I am more concerned about sheer reliability than expansion. The 45acp does not need to expand to do a good job.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Interesting. New manufactured Winchester service grade 45 ACP is listed at 865 fps, which would be military spec. 890 fps from the Federal load makes sense if it in fact intended to be a low cost training load compared to the Hyda Shok load.

 

[M1A4ME]

I don't find it unusual that a gun "likes" one type/brand of ammo better than another.

My CZ .40's don't shoot good groups with Winchester 180 grain hollow points. My M&Ps (all of them) shoot their best groups with that ammo. My CZ's do best with the Nosler 135 grain hollow points. I'm wasting my time shooting that ammo in the M&P pistols.

Similar stories for the FN pistols in .40 and the M&P/CZ likes/dislikes in 9MM.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Can anyone tell the difference between 865 fps and 890 fps? Asking for a friend

 

[rockquarry]

Can anyone tell the difference between 865 fps and 890 fps? Asking for a friend

I guess some can. I'd call them virtually the same.

 

[chief38]

Can anyone tell the difference between 865 fps and 890 fps? Asking for a friend

When I shoot the Federal at 890fps I can absolutely discern the difference between it and the Winchester which is rated at 835fps; not 865fps. Kind of how you can feel the difference while shooting S&W / Fiocchi brand 38 special ammo. Winchester may have upped the velocity on newer production ammunition (that is something I am unaware of) but the boxes of Winchester 230 grain ball I had were marked 835fps. The differential in percentage is about 6% less. The slight difference could be due to the velocity, the powder they use, etc. but in answer to your question between I can feel the difference and see the slight difference in POA - POI.

 

[decuerno]

It’s been a while since I hand loaded 45ACP but when I did an experiment comparing identical powder/bullets but using reg and Magnum primers…the difference was right near 50 fps greater with the magnum primers. (I was doing this because of an article recommending mag primers for arctic conditions)

 

[biku324]

Can anyone tell the difference between 865 fps and 890 fps? Asking for a friend

Nope. I qualify with Win white box or Win milspec ball and train with/carry RED45 in a Shield and a 625. No discernible difference that I perceive, and certainly none that impacts groups.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I reload and I had a chronograph and my S&W Model 19 four inch always put up higher velocity numbers than my other .38s and .357s including the six inchers as well as any of my shooting buddy’s revolvers.

 

[decuerno]

I reload and I had a chronograph and my S&W Model 19 four inch always put up higher velocity numbers than my other .38s and .357s including the six inchers as well as any of my shooting buddy’s revolvers.

I suspect cylinder-to-forcing cone gap has a lot to do with such results.