Does anyone have any information on the possible negative impact of fire on firearms when they are inside a safe and survive a serious house fire that destroys the safe?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Fire's effect on firearms
- Thread starter ISCS Yoda
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I can’t offer any empirical info, but what you describe doesn’t sound good: if the safe is destroyed in the fire, hard to imagine that the contents are unaffected.
ExRanger714
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"In the vast majority of cases, if the heat is high enough to change the temper of metal frames, barrels, slides, etc. it will have destroyed the springs first. The rule of thumb is if the springs have lost their "spring" the temper in important parts may be gone. Have it checked by a someone knowledgable (sic) in heat treating." was found here:
Shotgunworld.com • Fire Damaged Firearms
"#1 ROCKWELL HARNESS TESTING will determint if the receiver, BBL, frame, etc... are still at there proper temper and hardness
#2 every spring in the gun will need to be replaced
#3 sheet or stamped metal parts will be suspect and are more easily damaged
#4 plastic or composite pieces will need to be scrapped
#5 a GUNSMITH or MACHINIST should inspect
#6 new finish should be applied if the gun passes the correct tests" was found here:
restoring burned guns | The Firearms Forum - The Buying, Selling or Trading Firearm Forum
And plenty more hits on Google.
Regards JD
Shotgunworld.com • Fire Damaged Firearms
"#1 ROCKWELL HARNESS TESTING will determint if the receiver, BBL, frame, etc... are still at there proper temper and hardness
#2 every spring in the gun will need to be replaced
#3 sheet or stamped metal parts will be suspect and are more easily damaged
#4 plastic or composite pieces will need to be scrapped
#5 a GUNSMITH or MACHINIST should inspect
#6 new finish should be applied if the gun passes the correct tests" was found here:
restoring burned guns | The Firearms Forum - The Buying, Selling or Trading Firearm Forum
And plenty more hits on Google.
Regards JD
TomkinsSP
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So it destroys the safe. Ok. Some really high quality safes are designed to "commit suicide" to protect thier contents. My safe has a 'fusible metal gasket' made of lead or some such material that will melt and seal the gap should it be exposed to a certain level of heat. It is rated for 1 hour at 4X temperature or 5 hours at X temperature. It will have to be drilled and chiseled open after a backhoe digs it out of the pile of rubble that used to be a house. The store had one on display that survived a three hour fire ending with the house collapsing on top of it and it being dug from a water filled basement ruin before being drilled and cut open. They say the contents survived.
Not inexpensive. But the wife was good with that, one side of the safe has all our pictures of departed family and our children when they were children inside of it.
Not inexpensive. But the wife was good with that, one side of the safe has all our pictures of departed family and our children when they were children inside of it.
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It happened to my daughter's house a couple of years ago.
The fire started in an electrical junction right beside their 2 safes (cheap key lock type). The insurance company and fire marshal wouldn't let them move anything in the area for over a month while they investigated the cause.
Then, it was left to me to deal with the guns. I cut the safes open and found that most of the ammo had "cooked off" and some of the lead had melted. Nobody argued - that was hot enough to ruin the guns.
We got the local PD to take everything and cut it up. And insurance paid to replace everything.
The fire started in an electrical junction right beside their 2 safes (cheap key lock type). The insurance company and fire marshal wouldn't let them move anything in the area for over a month while they investigated the cause.
Then, it was left to me to deal with the guns. I cut the safes open and found that most of the ammo had "cooked off" and some of the lead had melted. Nobody argued - that was hot enough to ruin the guns.
We got the local PD to take everything and cut it up. And insurance paid to replace everything.
cowboy4evr
Member
True story ! A friend of mine in Az is a sort of a gunsmith on a very low level . Anyway , one day a guy walked into his shop and handed him what was left of a Colt King Cobra . It had obviously been through a fire . The owner stated that as well , then said how he tried to " clean it " to be fixed . He put in a cement mixer with some gravel and turned it on and let it run for several days . You can imagine what it looked like after that treatment . It still hangs in my friends shop . Regards, Paul
I once had a 3" Chief's Special that had gone through a fire. I had it Rockwell tested and it was good to go. I shot it for several years and then traded it off.
OMG! Rocks? I might could imagine sand, but ROCKS? Poor fellow needs to see the Wizard about a brain.
That is why it is good to look at the fire rating for a good safe. A good safe will go through a very hot fire for up to two hours and keep the internal temperature below the temperature that will char paper. Yes, the price goes up for increased protection, but for the price of 2 or 3 guns you can protect over 20.
I can provide some info on this one....
ExRanger provided good information above. In my limited experience (only one house fire
), it all depends on how long, how hot, and how far away.
My house burned in 2003 after a citronella candle was knocked over on the back porch. The fire traveled up the wall and into the attic. The local FD had hoses on the fire 11 minutes after the first 911 call. The picture attached below is what was left of the kitchen when it was all done. At one point during the demolition phase the house looked normal from the street....until you opened the garage door and realized that you could see all the way through to the backyard. Very much like a movie set facade.
I only owned a few guns at the time and they were all in a Homak metal security cabinet in one of the bedroom closets. The fire got to the outside of the bedroom, but the bedroom door was closed and the fire didn't break through. The guns were all removed when we were allowed back into the house the next day. They all were sprayed down with RemOil, but that's all I had time to do.
I finally had time to take them to my gunsmith a few weeks later. My gunsmith simply pointed to my Kimber .45 and asked "Was that with the others?" When I said yes, he told me "You have nothing to worry about. That one has rubber grips on it. If the grips didn't melt that means there's nothing wrong with the steel."
I still have all of them and they work just fine.
I now have everything in a fire rated safe with the sacrificial door seal, but I honestly don't worry about fire much. If a fire starts in the room containing the safe then it's game over and time to file an insurance claim. If it starts anywhere else, you're number 1 line of defense is simply to keep the door to the room closed. All 3 bedroom doors were closed during my fire and all 3 bedrooms survived with their contents intact. The rest of the house was a total loss.
YMMV of course. Every fire is different.
ExRanger provided good information above. In my limited experience (only one house fire
), it all depends on how long, how hot, and how far away.My house burned in 2003 after a citronella candle was knocked over on the back porch. The fire traveled up the wall and into the attic. The local FD had hoses on the fire 11 minutes after the first 911 call. The picture attached below is what was left of the kitchen when it was all done. At one point during the demolition phase the house looked normal from the street....until you opened the garage door and realized that you could see all the way through to the backyard. Very much like a movie set facade.
I only owned a few guns at the time and they were all in a Homak metal security cabinet in one of the bedroom closets. The fire got to the outside of the bedroom, but the bedroom door was closed and the fire didn't break through. The guns were all removed when we were allowed back into the house the next day. They all were sprayed down with RemOil, but that's all I had time to do.
I finally had time to take them to my gunsmith a few weeks later. My gunsmith simply pointed to my Kimber .45 and asked "Was that with the others?" When I said yes, he told me "You have nothing to worry about. That one has rubber grips on it. If the grips didn't melt that means there's nothing wrong with the steel."
I still have all of them and they work just fine.
I now have everything in a fire rated safe with the sacrificial door seal, but I honestly don't worry about fire much. If a fire starts in the room containing the safe then it's game over and time to file an insurance claim. If it starts anywhere else, you're number 1 line of defense is simply to keep the door to the room closed. All 3 bedroom doors were closed during my fire and all 3 bedrooms survived with their contents intact. The rest of the house was a total loss.
YMMV of course. Every fire is different.
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jessebogan
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I have a Pre Model 18 that went through a fire, sometime before my Dad bought it in 62. I bet it burned the stocks off as it has replacements. It is by far the ugliest S and W I own. Almost no finish, and some deep pits here and there. From the looks of it, I suspect someone removed most of the finish "cleaning" it post fire. Still shoots well though, but I wish it looked better. I keep it waxed, and shoot it some to remind me of the old man.
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Too many variables for a blanket answer! It all depends where the guns are stored, how good your safe was fireproofed, how close to your safe the fire was, where the safe was in relationship to the fire, the length of time and temperature the fire burned at, etc.
Usually safes are fire rated for specific temperatures for specific amounts of time. The more you spend the better they usually are. As a non-expert on fire damage I would think once a safe os destroyed by the fire the guns inside would be very questionable as to their integrity.
Firearms that got too hot can loose their heat treatment properties, warp, stocks can get dried out and finishes can get ruined. If you have specific questions the manufacturers might be able to help - or guys like Doug Turnbull who are experts at restoration and know what happens better than most of us could ever know.
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OP
Let's make this easier. I will upload the pictures so everyone can see the fire damage, or lack thereof.
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OP
Oh, feces! I thought the OP was asking an academic question.
Sorry to see that, though the cloth gun rugs seem to be intact, so that’s a good sign.
Sorry to see that, though the cloth gun rugs seem to be intact, so that’s a good sign.
OP
Yes, three weeks ago the fecal matter hit the swirling blades and I found myself in a pile of real dirt. Literally. But I really thing that with the cloth gun rugs and socks intact like that there can't be very much real damage to the firearms, not counting the water that we cleaned off.
I just don't want one of the guns to blow up because I didn't know better.
I just don't want one of the guns to blow up because I didn't know better.
ParadiseRoad
Member
...all the cloth and plastic that appears undamaged makes me think you're alright...
...In think springs are tempered around 650 F ...it doesn't appear anything got that hot in there...
...In think springs are tempered around 650 F ...it doesn't appear anything got that hot in there...
How did you get the safe open?
Also, just for future reference and doesn't help this particular conversation much... not a good idea for guns inside a safe to be stored in zippered/foam gun rugs. Those are miraculous and basically perfect for transport and short term storage, but are a bad idea for longer storage.
The foam in them attracts moisture and will impart that moisture on to anything zipped inside of them.
Also, just for future reference and doesn't help this particular conversation much... not a good idea for guns inside a safe to be stored in zippered/foam gun rugs. Those are miraculous and basically perfect for transport and short term storage, but are a bad idea for longer storage.
The foam in them attracts moisture and will impart that moisture on to anything zipped inside of them.
OP
We had a locksmith come over. After about five minutes of tinkering with the burned off lock mechanism he got a crowbar and literally popped it open.
I was transitioning to gun socks for everything. All the guns behind the ones you see in the picture were in gun "socks", not zippered gun "rugs". All kinds of good reasons for that.
I was transitioning to gun socks for everything. All the guns behind the ones you see in the picture were in gun "socks", not zippered gun "rugs". All kinds of good reasons for that.
forindooruseonly
Member
I'm sure sorry to see that. A house fire has been a phobia of mine for a long, long time. I hope things turn out okay and you didn't lose too much of the irreplaceable kind.
I would think the fire didn't hurt anything, most everything looks like it didn't get hot or char. How is the leather on the sling? That might be a good indicator of how hot it got, and for how long.
I would think the fire didn't hurt anything, most everything looks like it didn't get hot or char. How is the leather on the sling? That might be a good indicator of how hot it got, and for how long.
fire.....
sorry about the fire and the loss of many of your belongings, but seeing the pictures of the inside of the safe, if none of the paper cardboard or even the plastic was damaged, (Burnt) there will not be any issues with the guns, you would need for the grips to be burned off, melted or destroyed by the fire, not the heat,,,,,,,the cardboard and papers would have ignited........
more issue come up with water damage from the putting out of any fires or the safe setting in a flooded basement or lower level......
when we had the shops, we worked on guns that were directly affected by fire ( heat) and left in flooded basements for any period of time.......
sorry about the fire and the loss of many of your belongings, but seeing the pictures of the inside of the safe, if none of the paper cardboard or even the plastic was damaged, (Burnt) there will not be any issues with the guns, you would need for the grips to be burned off, melted or destroyed by the fire, not the heat,,,,,,,the cardboard and papers would have ignited........
more issue come up with water damage from the putting out of any fires or the safe setting in a flooded basement or lower level......
when we had the shops, we worked on guns that were directly affected by fire ( heat) and left in flooded basements for any period of time.......
OP
I am a fanatic about it. If I walk past my stove I check to make sure it is off even if I haven't used it for days. This fire was electrical and essentially unpreventable in old circuitry that failed. Long story; suffice it to say be careful with your out-in-the-garage vintage refrigerators or old electrical receptacles that you scarcely use. It was one of those two.
I do think my guns are good to go; the spots on them from water are yucky but cleaned up and the guns should all be workable except the ones that really got toasted outside the safe. I agree that with the paper and plastic and leather slings all good the guns didn't get affected by the heat.
