First handgun recommendations
- Thread starter gld1203
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MakeMyNight
Member
Home defense?
A Smith and Wesson (or quality) 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 3" magnum #4 buckshot.
Tough to miss a target with the shotgun, and it's not likely to penetrate the walls and injure a neighbor. Besides, being a most venerable intimidator, and absolutely respectable weapon.
Revolver?
You can't go wrong with any medium framed, quality 38/357 revolver, though practice is a necessity.
My night guns?
Ithaca Model 66 12 gauge "Buck Buster" loaded with 3" 00 buckshot, and S&W model 686-2 4" bbl, with home brewed loads using Sierra 158 gr hc bullets.
A Smith and Wesson (or quality) 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 3" magnum #4 buckshot.
Tough to miss a target with the shotgun, and it's not likely to penetrate the walls and injure a neighbor. Besides, being a most venerable intimidator, and absolutely respectable weapon.
Revolver?
You can't go wrong with any medium framed, quality 38/357 revolver, though practice is a necessity.
My night guns?
Ithaca Model 66 12 gauge "Buck Buster" loaded with 3" 00 buckshot, and S&W model 686-2 4" bbl, with home brewed loads using Sierra 158 gr hc bullets.
Thanks for all those who have replied. I have read each reply and respect and appreciate the opinions expressed. S&W revolvers are just damn beautiful machines. Over time I'll probably own more than 1.
Those of you who like the 65 and 66, is the only difference the sights? Also, when were these produced? (someone mentioned parts becoming scarce)
Those of you who like the 65 and 66, is the only difference the sights? Also, when were these produced? (someone mentioned parts becoming scarce)
cjcutter1
Member
+1 on the shotgun idea,very intimidating firearm to the bad guy.But if a revolver is your choice a 686+ 3" is a nice choice and btw my first smith.
JNewell
Member
4" 686 stainless or eqivalent, used if possible and if very clean/tight
several boxes of .38 Special regular velocity or wadcutter ammo
a paid date with a GOOD trainer
several boxes of .38 Special regular velocity or wadcutter ammo
a paid date with a GOOD trainer
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The 65 was still in production a few years ago and the 66 was produced well into the 90s, so there should be no shortage of parts in our lifetimes. In addition to the sights the 66 had a shrouded ejector rod, while the 65 did not. 65 had a heavy barrel, which gave it a slightly different balance. Either would be a good choice.
My wife's bedside gun for the last 30 years has been a M67, which is a K-frame .38 Special that splits the difference: adjustable sights, but no shroud.
bountyhunter has great advice. For a first time revolver and also a new shooter I too would recommend a model 66 in 4 inch barrel. Best balanced and best handling revolver. Excellent home defense revolver.
Below is mine.
roaddog28
Beautiful gun. There's one on GB right now which looks almost as good, was wondering what a good price would be?
You are where I was about two years ago, except we did not have trouble quite so close to home. I bought a used Model 65 at a gun show, but from a dealer. If you have gun shows near where you live, they are a good place to go and touch/feel/look at various models, although you may find far more semi-autos than revolvers. I paid about $365 (I live in central VA), plus got some new grips. Also bought a 642 for my wife the same day (she picked it - wanted something that would fit her purse).
After the show I took it to a gunsmith to get it checked out, just to be sure, then we both signed up for the closest gun safety class we could find and also took shooting lessons.
I understand .357 can be very disconcerting if you ever need to use it in an enclosed space. .38 +p can be a good compromise.
I now own a second gun, have a concealed carry permit, and am itching to buy a couple more and a shotgun soon. This is how it starts...
Be safe, happy gun-hunting.
After the show I took it to a gunsmith to get it checked out, just to be sure, then we both signed up for the closest gun safety class we could find and also took shooting lessons.
I understand .357 can be very disconcerting if you ever need to use it in an enclosed space. .38 +p can be a good compromise.
I now own a second gun, have a concealed carry permit, and am itching to buy a couple more and a shotgun soon. This is how it starts...
Be safe, happy gun-hunting.
Im sorry but I cannot let this myth stand. We are trying to give a new shooter good advise here. It is very easy to miss with a shotgun. Buckshot patterns do not open up at home defense distances. A 12 gauge three inch mag is not a great home defense round (over penetration and exsessive recoil). Buckshot can over penetrate. If you shoot at distances of 15 to 25 yards it is also very easy to throw a pellet or two of buckshot off target (liability). As for the all intimidating shotgun..........lets leave that to Hollywood.
Im not knocking the shotgun. Its a fine weapon. I do keep a short barrel 870 close by myself. But a shotguns true abilities and pitfalls need to be kept in perspective.
I appreciate the advice on shotguns, but I can't get over thinking the handgun is just quicker and easier to arm yourself with if you have to. For now, anyway, that's where I am.
I also don't want to rule out taking it in the truck if I want to.
Thanks again for the ongoing discussion. This is a great forum with obviously interested members.
New question: Anyone have a pic of 66 and 686 together?
I also don't want to rule out taking it in the truck if I want to.
Thanks again for the ongoing discussion. This is a great forum with obviously interested members.
New question: Anyone have a pic of 66 and 686 together?
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gld1203, are you anywhere near the Gulfport/Biloxi area on the Gulf Coast? Have read your post and I would just bet that the best all-round firearm for your wishes and requirements would be a nice new/used S&W 38/357 revolver with 4" barrel. Good balance of quality,price, and suitability for a new shooter(or a experienced one for that matter). The 3" would probably be a little harder to locate and would likely be a little more expensive. If you are not going to carry it often the 3" isn't much of an advantage unless, of course you are just set on that version. If so, go for it. Both types are excellent.
I am retired LEO, Police Firearms Instructor, S&W Armorer and if you are in my area I would be glad to assist you in shopping for a new or good used revolver and possibly steer you to a local gun club and maybe to some training.
I am retired LEO, Police Firearms Instructor, S&W Armorer and if you are in my area I would be glad to assist you in shopping for a new or good used revolver and possibly steer you to a local gun club and maybe to some training.
Bert Man, thanks for the reply. I'm in Mobile, so not a long way off. The 3" barrels are my first choice, based simply on the way they look, but I don't know anything. Is there a big difference in shooting between a 3 and 4 inch?
scooter123
Member
Of your 2 initial choices, the 3 inch model 686 is a superb choice. If you can, get the 686 Plus version because it's a 7 shooter as opposed to a 6 shooter.
For home defense ammunition, go with a 38 spl. +P premium self defense round. In a Home Defense situation there really isn't any need for a 357 Magnum and the 38 spl. will be quiet enough that there will be a lot less risk of permanent damage to your hearing. Out of a 3 inch barrel a 357 Magnum will be loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss or even total loss of your hearing. Since you won't be shooting thru any steel car bodies, there really isn't any need for the much more powerful Magnum. In addition there will be much less risk of over penetration with the 38 spl.
For range use, standard 38 spl. will be just fine and close enough to the 38 +P that any deviation in sighting will be well within 1 inch at 40 feet or less. Recoil will also be quite similar to the 38 +P so that training with the less powerful 38 spl. will have very little effect on your ability with the slightly more powerful 38 +P.
As for those who have suggested a shotgun or rifle for Home Defense, they haven't taken into account the layout of YOUR home. I live in a small home with narrow hallways and there just isn't room in many areas that would allow me to swing a long gun. If your in a similar circumstance, a handgun is a much better choice. In addition, some shotgun calibers can be every bit as loud as a 357 Magnum, so damage to your hearing is a real potential. Finally, it's a lot more difficult to engage multiple targets at close range with a long gun than it is with a handgun because you have to fight all that inertia. Quite simply many times a handgun you have practiced with is a much better choice for close range defense than any long gun.
As for the price, 769 dollars for a 3 inch 686 is fairly good. I can do about 40 dollars better in my area but I live in a large metropolitan area with large high volume dealers. Bottomline, that's not a bad price for a brand new gun.
Tips, pay for training from a professional. Your level of skill will grow much faster with professional training. You'll also want to do a lot of training initially, plan on once a week for a minimum of 8 weeks because it will take that long to learn how to master shooting well rapidly with the Double action trigger. BTW, shooting well means hitting a 5 inch target ay 30 feet while shooting at a 1/2 second interval time. At first that will seem impossible but after 8 weeks of steady training you'll find it pretty easy.
Note, many ranges will ban shooting this rapidly. However it's been my experience that if you frequent one range frequently and get to know the people, they will waive the firing rate rules when the range isn't in heavy use. Many times dinner hour during the week are slack times at shooting ranges so you might want to make it a habit to eat late once a week. I have also find it very benefical to ask for permission before engaging in any rapid fire practice. Many times if the range isn't busy they will say yes and have a Range Officer watch how you do. Get to know that Range Officer and many times he'll point out what you are doing right and where you could do better.
Also, remember you are practicing to defend yourself, NOT target shooting. While a 5 inch group may not sound that good, put a tape measure to your head. If you can consistently hit a 5 inch target at 30 feet, you can certainly shoot well enough to defend yourself. This means don't cheat and spend your time shooting in single action, practice how you may have to use it and master shooting in double action.
Final note, purchase some Azoom snap caps for the new gun. They will protect the firing mechanism when you're doing dry fire practice at home to strengthen your trigger finger and refine your trigger stroke. Also, watch the sights when you practicing with dry fire, the goal is to pull the trigger in one smooth rapid stroke without causing the gun to "shake". Start by stroking the trigger slowly in one smooth motion and build up speed as you get smoother.
PS; keep in mind that this isn't the Movie of the Week. If you are facing an armed Home Invasion your only obligation is to protect yourself and your family. This means that you Identify the target, Confirm they are armed, Aim and Fire. You don't yell "stop or I'll shoot" like we have all seen in the movies or on TV, you shoot them down like you would a rabid Pit Bull. After they are down and no longer trying to do you harm, you may then disarm them and call 911 and provide any medical care you think is appropriate until help arrives.
If you're facing a Home invader who is not armed, you have a bit more leeway in how you react. Just be aware that they may be concealing the fact that they are armed. If there are any signs of resistance or aggression, it may be best to treat them as if they are armed. This is where Castle Doctrine comes into play, in most states you have the right to defnd your homestead with lethal force, even against an unarmed intruder. However, you do want to familiarize yourself with your states laws in this regard.
I personally think that it's bad form to shoot a drunk who has kicked in the wrong door. I also think it's bad form to shoot a teenager looking for an easy score with the thought that nobody is home. If some unarmed idiot were to kick in my door he would be presented with 3 choices, given at gunpoint. 1) Run like hell. This is assuming that he runs as soon as he sees me and I don't have time to say anything. 2) Fully comply with every order I give. This means that he has to strip down to his underpants so I can see he is unarmed and call 911 on himself. 3) Get shot for showing resistance or aggression. I'm an average mid 50's male and have no illusions that I can go toe to toe with someone younger and fitter.
For home defense ammunition, go with a 38 spl. +P premium self defense round. In a Home Defense situation there really isn't any need for a 357 Magnum and the 38 spl. will be quiet enough that there will be a lot less risk of permanent damage to your hearing. Out of a 3 inch barrel a 357 Magnum will be loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss or even total loss of your hearing. Since you won't be shooting thru any steel car bodies, there really isn't any need for the much more powerful Magnum. In addition there will be much less risk of over penetration with the 38 spl.
For range use, standard 38 spl. will be just fine and close enough to the 38 +P that any deviation in sighting will be well within 1 inch at 40 feet or less. Recoil will also be quite similar to the 38 +P so that training with the less powerful 38 spl. will have very little effect on your ability with the slightly more powerful 38 +P.
As for those who have suggested a shotgun or rifle for Home Defense, they haven't taken into account the layout of YOUR home. I live in a small home with narrow hallways and there just isn't room in many areas that would allow me to swing a long gun. If your in a similar circumstance, a handgun is a much better choice. In addition, some shotgun calibers can be every bit as loud as a 357 Magnum, so damage to your hearing is a real potential. Finally, it's a lot more difficult to engage multiple targets at close range with a long gun than it is with a handgun because you have to fight all that inertia. Quite simply many times a handgun you have practiced with is a much better choice for close range defense than any long gun.
As for the price, 769 dollars for a 3 inch 686 is fairly good. I can do about 40 dollars better in my area but I live in a large metropolitan area with large high volume dealers. Bottomline, that's not a bad price for a brand new gun.
Tips, pay for training from a professional. Your level of skill will grow much faster with professional training. You'll also want to do a lot of training initially, plan on once a week for a minimum of 8 weeks because it will take that long to learn how to master shooting well rapidly with the Double action trigger. BTW, shooting well means hitting a 5 inch target ay 30 feet while shooting at a 1/2 second interval time. At first that will seem impossible but after 8 weeks of steady training you'll find it pretty easy.
Note, many ranges will ban shooting this rapidly. However it's been my experience that if you frequent one range frequently and get to know the people, they will waive the firing rate rules when the range isn't in heavy use. Many times dinner hour during the week are slack times at shooting ranges so you might want to make it a habit to eat late once a week. I have also find it very benefical to ask for permission before engaging in any rapid fire practice. Many times if the range isn't busy they will say yes and have a Range Officer watch how you do. Get to know that Range Officer and many times he'll point out what you are doing right and where you could do better.
Also, remember you are practicing to defend yourself, NOT target shooting. While a 5 inch group may not sound that good, put a tape measure to your head. If you can consistently hit a 5 inch target at 30 feet, you can certainly shoot well enough to defend yourself. This means don't cheat and spend your time shooting in single action, practice how you may have to use it and master shooting in double action.
Final note, purchase some Azoom snap caps for the new gun. They will protect the firing mechanism when you're doing dry fire practice at home to strengthen your trigger finger and refine your trigger stroke. Also, watch the sights when you practicing with dry fire, the goal is to pull the trigger in one smooth rapid stroke without causing the gun to "shake". Start by stroking the trigger slowly in one smooth motion and build up speed as you get smoother.
PS; keep in mind that this isn't the Movie of the Week. If you are facing an armed Home Invasion your only obligation is to protect yourself and your family. This means that you Identify the target, Confirm they are armed, Aim and Fire. You don't yell "stop or I'll shoot" like we have all seen in the movies or on TV, you shoot them down like you would a rabid Pit Bull. After they are down and no longer trying to do you harm, you may then disarm them and call 911 and provide any medical care you think is appropriate until help arrives.
If you're facing a Home invader who is not armed, you have a bit more leeway in how you react. Just be aware that they may be concealing the fact that they are armed. If there are any signs of resistance or aggression, it may be best to treat them as if they are armed. This is where Castle Doctrine comes into play, in most states you have the right to defnd your homestead with lethal force, even against an unarmed intruder. However, you do want to familiarize yourself with your states laws in this regard.
I personally think that it's bad form to shoot a drunk who has kicked in the wrong door. I also think it's bad form to shoot a teenager looking for an easy score with the thought that nobody is home. If some unarmed idiot were to kick in my door he would be presented with 3 choices, given at gunpoint. 1) Run like hell. This is assuming that he runs as soon as he sees me and I don't have time to say anything. 2) Fully comply with every order I give. This means that he has to strip down to his underpants so I can see he is unarmed and call 911 on himself. 3) Get shot for showing resistance or aggression. I'm an average mid 50's male and have no illusions that I can go toe to toe with someone younger and fitter.
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Not really much differnt between shooting either version. 4 inch gives slightly higher bullet velocity (but not enough to matter). 3 inch has maybe a little more recoil/muzzle jump but then again not that much. Many (me included) find that the 3 inch has almost perfect balance in the hand. The key to either is as much quality training as possible and regular practice. It is essential that any training include the legal and moral ramifications involved in the use of deadly force. Looks like you are a bit out of my AO and I am not too familiar with Alabama law regarding handguns, available training and shooting ranges in your area so I guess I may not be able to be too helpful in steering you to same. I do know that AL Fish & Game Dept. offer hunter safety courses that includes some familiarity with firearms and essential firearms safety. Might be worth looking into. If there are any commercial gun ranges near you they may have info on defensive firearms training. When you go to purchase a revolver you can often find good used ones at lest cost than new, but unless you have someone knowledgeable in S&W revolvers I would suggest that you might spend a bit more and buy new. Whichever way you go be advised the one you get will never be enough. The fever will bite you and you WILL crave more and more.
bountyhunter
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That is the worst scenario. In California we are automatically charged and jailed for shooting an unarmed intruder. But remember: an unarmed intruder is still a lethal threat. At a range of five yards or less (which a home intruder almost always will be) if he breaks and runs at you, he will be on you in about one second. factor in startle time and you will be lucky to get one aimed shot. You have to neutralize him or he will grab the barrel of the gun and use the leverage to snap your wrist like a pretzel. Then you die. This is why CQB shootouts need to be avoided.
Wow. Didn't know that about California. How are you supposed to know what he's packing? To me, it is reasonable to believe that someone breaking into an occupied residence poses an immediate threat to the existence of my family and me, armed or not.
Here's the pertinent part of Alabama law (Note (b) in particular):
(a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he or she may use a degree of force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose. A person may use deadly physical force, and is legally presumed to be justified in using deadly physical force in self-defense or the defense of another person pursuant to subdivision (4), if the person reasonably believes that another person is:
(1) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force.
(2) Using or about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling while committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling.
(3) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping in any degree, assault in the first or second degree, burglary in any degree, robbery in any degree, forcible rape, or forcible sodomy.
***
(b) A person who is justified under subsection (a) in using physical force, including deadly physical force, and who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and is in any place where he or she has the right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground.
Good news: Last night, police arrested the suspect in my neighbor's murder.
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ab4ka
Member
of your two choices, if it's going to be primarily for the house I'd go with the 686. I've got a 2-1/2" one that I adore. The 60 might be better if you're going to carry it, but the 686 is totable as well, would give you an extra round (two if you get the 686+) and will soak up the recoil better. Mine is a dream when shooting .38's through it.
bountyhunter
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Reasonable has nothing to do with California Law. In mid 90's, we had an 80 year old man charged with murder for firing a single shot through his LOCKED bedroom door as a thug broke through it with a crowbar. We organized a "phone call" protest to the Oakland DA and the charges were eventually dropped after the guy did two weeks in county lockup. I am still mad about it to this day.
They have a saying out here: "Use a gun, go to jail." They just don't tell you it also applies to the lawful citizens as well as the criminals. I suspect most people will beat the rap on those kind of charges, but the process is enough to drain your bank account and ruin your life. The message is clear: if you think you have the right to defend your life, MOVE to another state.
BTW, it is not only guns: we had a guy bonk a child molester on the head with a bat (fractured his skull) when the guy broke into his house and was in his kid's bedroom. Father was charged with assault with a deadly weapon and jailed. I remember John Walsh commented on that case on his America's Most Wanted show. Charges eventually were dropped.
Maybe some of the more rural counties of Kali are different, but the urban (liberal) ones all subscribe to the myth that citizens must be unarmed and helpless.
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