First handgun recommendations

[Ed333]

66 and 686

...snip....

New question: Anyone have a pic of 66 and 686 together?

I grabbed mine up and took some PhotoBooth snapshots, attached. I don't shoot magnums, just .38 Specials, and if I was loading for self defense, I think I would stick with 38 Special. Partly this is because I am partial to snubbies, and a .357 magnum snub is not something I want to shoot a lot, and I want to shoot A LOT!! Having said that, if i had to choose between my two 4" barrels shown, I would go with the model 66, not loading magnums.
btw, I sold all my 6" revolvers, the balance issue is a real one, especially in a point and shoot context. I am partial to K frame snubs and my 4" m.66.

 

[RPD20]

I see you have the ultra rare left hand 66 and 686

 

[scooter123]

The posts concerning Defense in California illustrate quite well the need to know your states laws. For anyone considering Defense in the home, the first thing you should do is acquaint yourself with your states laws concerning what you may do to defend your home and family. However, even in California, it's far better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

As for the comments concerning defending yourself against an unarmed intruder, if your state has established Castle Doctrine I would advise that you make it a habit to carry in your home. In my case, my pistol is either on my hip or within arms reach no matter what I am doing. I even take it into the bathroom when I'm taking a dump. If someone kicks my door in, they'll be looking down a barrel as soon as they cross the threshold. The simple fact is that the most effective way to deter a criminal is to make sure that you always have the Tactical Advantage. If you have that, you then have the liberty to adjust your response to what that intruder is doing.

However, one problem with taking this approach is that it will probably get you shot if it's a Cop kicking your door in. Fortunately, because of past incidents (one entry team in a shootout with another entry team), the police in my area have pretty much foresaken No Knock warrant procedures. They may bust the door in but they are quite loud about announcing themselves before they do so. In addition, they have a distinct tendancy to lead off with Flash/Bang grenades before entry because they have found from experience that Flash/Bangs are VERY effective at establishing a Tactical Advantage. Point is, take the time to acquaint yourself with Police procedures in your area and adjust your response planning based on what's going on where you live.

I'll also suggest that you consider reinforcing the entry points into your home.

Security rated entry doors are NOT cheap, however they can make if very difficult for someone to just kick your door in. BTW, a true security door is a packege encompassing a reinforced steel door and a heavy gage all steel door frame well anchored into the wall. Cost will start at about 2K and goes up from there depending on how well "disguised" it is to blend into a nice neighborhood. I've seen high end security doors that look like your basic all wood entry door and have lites made with bulletproof acrylic. Done properly, the only way to breech one of these doors is by knocking the door and frame out of the wall.

A much less expensive option is pretty simple and moderately effective. That is a well made fibreglass or steel skinned entry door with 3 1/2 inch screws used on all the hinges and a high security lockplate (available from Home Depot or Lowes). BTW, high security lockplates are about 8 inches long, made with a heavy gage steel, and secured with 6 to 8 screws. You'll have to mortice the frame for the extra length of that lockplate, however it will make if very difficult to split the lockplate out of the frame with one kick. I'll also note that it's now common building practice for all entry doors to have two 2 x 4 studs "sistered" on each side of the door frame, which is why 3 1/2 inch screws are employed to secure the hinges and the lockplate. However, on older construction there may only be one 2 x 4 enclosing the door frame, in that case you'll face the additional cost of opening up the all and having studs added to the framing for the door. If that is the case, it will cost a bit more to beef up your entry points. Doing this will provide a door that will take at least 5 or 10 really hard blows to breech and it will certainly give you time to prepare a response. It's also a door strong enough that it will generally encourage burglars to try somewhere else when you're not home. Fact is that burglars are pretty lazy and don't like to do a lot of work to break in to someones home.

 

[model70hunter]

Lots of good info. If you live close to other houses over penetration nto those homes could happen with a 357. I keep 2 guns handy, in the house both are loaded with 38 Special +P self defense type ammo, 125 gr. They will expand quickly and are not so prone to penetrate multiple walls. One is a 4" model 19 and the other is a 3.5" 27-2 N Frame. When I'm on my farm or camping I have full house 357 loads or my 25-5 Colt. For your home use either a K frame in 2.5, 3 or 4" will do. The longer the bbl the less perceived muzzle blast and less of a muzzle flash, if you have never shot a snubbie after dark is is bright. A 4" is not so bad.

 

[bountyhunter]

Just remember if your house has a sliding glass door anywhere, an intruder (badged or not) is only a rock away from being in your house.

 

[gld1203]

Reasonable has nothing to do with California Law. In mid 90's, we had an 80 year old man charged with murder for firing a single shot through his LOCKED bedroom door as a thug broke through it with a crowbar. We organized a "phone call" protest to the Oakland DA and the charges were eventually dropped after the guy did two weeks in county lockup. I am still mad about it to this day.

They have a saying out here: "Use a gun, go to jail." They just don't tell you it also applies to the lawful citizens as well as the criminals. I suspect most people will beat the rap on those kind of charges, but the process is enough to drain your bank account and ruin your life. The message is clear: if you think you have the right to defend your life, MOVE to another state.

BTW, it is not only guns: we had a guy bonk a child molester on the head with a bat (fractured his skull) when the guy broke into his house and was in his kid's bedroom. Father was charged with assault with a deadly weapon and jailed. I remember John Walsh commented on that case on his America's Most Wanted show. Charges eventually were dropped.

Maybe some of the more rural counties of Kali are different, but the urban (liberal) ones all subscribe to the myth that citizens must be unarmed and helpless.

That's some of the most incomprehensible stuff I've ever heard. It's almost unbelievable. What is the goal of the state?

ED333: THANKS FOR THE PICS AND YOUR TIME AND INTEREST.

 

[Casehardn]

I'm joining this a little late in the game, but thought I'd add an opinion.

686 is a great gun but if you are truly serious about using a firearm for self defense at home, I'd look at a K frame 38 like a model 15.
I own both a .357 and several .38's. I'd choose the .38 for indoor use every time over the .357 (which is more of a "woods" gun for me.

A .357 will most likely cause you to lose your hearing for life if you light one of those off indoors. There are plenty of good .38 options out there that will allow you to gain confidence in the firearm without picking up the bad habit of flinching. Shot placement is number 1.
You can also carry the firearm concealed so if you should be out on the town, you can be armed when you arrive home.

Many people interested in training with a firearm start with a .22 to gain experience in trigger control, follow through, etc., and then move up from there to a .38 caliber for defense.

There is also a great product on the market from Kimber that is a percussion charged mace product that comes out at 90 mph. You should consider this for a secondary option if it turns out your not cut out to shoot someone with a firearm.

 

[bountyhunter]

That's some of the most incomprehensible stuff I've ever heard. It's almost unbelievable. What is the goal of the state?.

To get all people who favor citizens owning guns to leave the state. It may be hard for you to visualize, but there are millions of people in California (many in government and LE) who think that if you collect all of the legal guns then there will be no more gun crime. They believe the BS about how guns are ten zillion times more likely to be used against their owner, a thousand children die everyday from accidental shootings, and only police should have guns..... police and the senators, mayors, governor, and their bodyguards who are among the elite few who can get a carry permit here.

 

["Cold Dead Hands" !]

A Semi-Auto handgun would be a far better choice than any revolver !
S&W M&P 9mm or .40cal. would be a far better choice.
(1) 9mm has about twice the stopping power of a .38 special, and the .40 has more yet.
(2) M&P has 2-3 times the number of bullets of a revolver.
9mm M&P is what I would recommend for any new shooter, or for anyone that shoots alot, since the Federal or Blazer Brass FMJ practice ammo (not hollow point) is cheap at Walmart.
Bullets for home defense: Hollow Point bullets like 115gr.Corbon DPX, 124gr.Speer Gold Dot, 127gr.Winchester Ranger SXT, 124gr.Remington Golden Saber.
The guys at any Gun Shop will confirm all of this info.

 

[Elmer]

A Semi-Auto handgun would be a far better choice than any revolver !
S&W M&P 9mm or .40cal. would be a far better choice.
(1) 9mm has about twice the stopping power of a .38 special, and the .40 has more yet.
(2) M&P has 2-3 times the number of bullets of a revolver.
9mm M&P is what I would recommend for any new shooter, or for anyone that shoots alot, since the Federal or Blazer Brass FMJ practice ammo (not hollow point) is cheap at Walmart.
Bullets for home defense: Hollow Point bullets like 115gr.Corbon DPX, 124gr.Speer Gold Dot, 127gr.Winchester Ranger SXT, 124gr.Remington Golden Saber.
The guys at any Gun Shop will confirm all of this info.

Well, I'd agree that many gun shop commandos would confirm what you just posted........

A 9mm doesn't have "twice the stopping power" of a .38 special. They're relatively close in performance. And unless someone is committed to spending the time learning, practicing with, and maintaining a semi automatic, a revolver is a better choice for a home defense weapon. I've competed with semi autos, and carried them on and off duty since the 1970's. I own several dozen of them. But my home defense handguns are revolvers, backed up with a rifle and a shotgun.

 

[HaroldB]

If you find a friend or neighbor the reloads, using light-load .38spl's to practice is better than .22lr and really easy to control. I shoot SASS (Cowboy Action) and some shooters recoil so light it sounds like a cap gun.

I've carried and shot a model 19 for years, so the mod. 66 would be a great find for you.

 

[blujax01]

Why not consider a Model 60 with a 3" barrel? My carry piece (which also serves for home protection) is a Model 36 w/ laser grips. Same J-frame as the Model 60 but chambered for .38 only.

 

[scooter123]

blujax01, the problem with the model 60 is the weight, or more specifically, the lack of mass. They are great guns and VERY capble in the hands of a skilled and experienced shooter. However, they are not a great choice for someone new to handguns, even with a mild 38 spl. they can have enough recoil to build a bad flinch.

IMO a model 63 is a much better choice as a J frame for somebody new to shooting a wheelgun. Granted, the 63 is a puny 22 caliber, however a well placed hit with a 22 trumps a miss with any of the larger calibers.

Fact is the very First priority for anyone choosing a handgun for Defense is to choose a handgun they can shoot well with. In the case of a new shooter, the 686 is a much better choice. Loaded with 38 spl. the recoil is moderate enough that almost anyone can learn to shoot them well and with the 38 +P SD rounds now available, it provides an effective choice of defense in the home. Finally, the 686 is a superb training gun for every one, so it's an additional plus factor for anyone who becomes interested enough to start bringing new people into shooting sports.

The downside is that the 686 won't carry as well as a model 60. However, the OP is looking for a Home Defense gun, not a carry choice. If he finds that he enjoys shooting, in time he'll develop a tolerance for recoil and can move into the model 60 as his skills increase.

PS, I believe the S&W revolvers are actually quite inexpensive. Look at cars today, they start around 30K and have a useful life of perhaps 10 or 15 years. Spend 700-800 dollars on a S&W revolver and you're purchasing a product that your great grandchildren will be able to use. In terms of value recieved, a S&W revolver is about the least expensive product you can purchase today, offhand the only other item I can think of that offers a better value is the simple Hammer.

 

[Patriot04]

A 4" .38 Spl. Model 10 - with Buffalo Bore ammo.

 

[photoman]

Smith & Wesson Model 64 38Spl Stainless Steel, bobbed hammer. Very good condition

 

[Elmer]

Smith & Wesson Model 64 38Spl Stainless Steel, bobbed hammer. Very good condition

That would be pretty hard to beat wouldn't it?

 

[gbw]

I'd vote for the 60 as not a close call. Preferably an older .38 version. Gotta be in total disagreement that a 686 will have more recoil of any kind, felt or actual, than a 60 The 686 is a very large and heavy gun weighing nearly twice the 60, and recoil is substantially lower. But that's it's only advantage and it's not really a factor for your purposes. The 60 is far lighter, handier, quicker, and all-round more versatile for most average folk.

The light snubs have an underserved reputation for being difficult. Practice w/ light loads solves that. There is little difference between using a snub v. any other revolver at short distances.

Where on the Gulf Coast? There are near non-stop gun shows nearby in many areas.

 

[BreakerDan]

A Semi-Auto handgun would be a far better choice than any revolver !
S&W M&P 9mm or .40cal. would be a far better choice.
(1) 9mm has about twice the stopping power of a .38 special, and the .40 has more yet.
(2) M&P has 2-3 times the number of bullets of a revolver.
9mm M&P is what I would recommend for any new shooter, or for anyone that shoots alot, since the Federal or Blazer Brass FMJ practice ammo (not hollow point) is cheap at Walmart.
Bullets for home defense: Hollow Point bullets like 115gr.Corbon DPX, 124gr.Speer Gold Dot, 127gr.Winchester Ranger SXT, 124gr.Remington Golden Saber.
The guys at any Gun Shop will confirm all of this info.

Sir, with all due respect I can't disagree with you more. The guys at most gun shops have little practical experience and are there to sell you something because the label says it works. After spending time on law enforcement ranges and civilian ranges I have taken great pride in proving to people that revolvers are better for the average shooter
than autos. Also, the revolver shooters were more accurate and faster getting off the first shot. I have let more than one auto shooter who have never even fired a revolver shoot more accurately with the first cylinder full than with their own autos. These folks were not gun people, they just wanted to be armed and bought autos because someone told them to. Armed with their own autos their survival would be questionable. Not so when armed with a quality revolver.

Revolvers are inherently better for home defense as they can honestly be loaded and left in the sock drawer for 20 years without being touched
and be as garuanteed to fire as humanly possible. Most autos won't
do that. Also, you will run out of time before ammo in most situations.
The average person will also be able to bring a revolver into action quicker as they do not have to disengage a safety or think about function.

Don't get me wrong, autos are great weapons and I own multiple Sigs and a 1911 Colt. They certainly have distinct advantages such as reloads
obviously, but the fact remains that most people do not train enough to
be competent with them. 75% of the auto armed LEOs I have seen are not that good. 75% of the revolver armed LEOs I have seen are quite good. And both camps had about the same training. Point being, most LEOs now train as much or more than your average home defender and look at the results.

Ballistically, the 38 and the 9m/m are closer than 2 to 1.
The 38 +P FBI load has about 275 ftlb. The 9 m/m 147
has about 330 ftlb. Not much difference. Yes some loads
are much farther apart but not 2 to 1. Also many 9m/m loads
are very close to 40. The 40 is not much more than 9 m/m.

As to the OP, I would get a S&W Model 10 or 15 and load it with
Remington 38+P 158 lead hollowpoint. Between the two
you mention, the 686 3" loaded with the load I mentioned.
That load has a good track record in law enforcement and
is the most consistent for power, penetration and reliability.

Beware the man who carries a revolver, a 1911 or a Browning HP.......they probably know what they are doing. Also, hollowpoints are good, but are not entirely necessary. Shot placement is the number one consideration. Obviously, for modern law enforcement the auto is now more practical but folks need more training still . The average trained civilian would be much more likely to succeed in a fight with revolver.

 

[bountyhunter]

You know, I love autoloaders. I own more of them than revolvers and they are fun to shoot and tweak. But Saddam will be ice skating in hell before I ever bet my life on one. Even if I developed amnesia as to how many autos I have to "tune up" to get rid of cycling or loading problems..... I will tell you this:

A revolver has a "fail safe" system: you point it and pull the trigger. If you don't hear the boom, pull it again.

With auto: you point it and pull the trigger... no boom? check the safety, rack the slide, regrip and reaim, pull again and hope you haven't already been shot a few times.


I fully accept that LE's need hi-cap autos because they do get in gunfights at long range with multiple assailants... and their marksmanship is not always what we would call stellar. But for civilian carry, I don't buy the hicap bandwagon.

Believeing I will be able to do anything more complicated than "point and pull" under extreme duress requires more ego than I will ever have.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

bountyhunter and BreakerDan - I agree with both of you on the auto's and revolvers. Tupperware can't match a good S&W Revolver.