First Luger!

[moosedog]

I picked this one up from one friend last week for another friend of mine 42/ 1940


Here's one I wish I would not have let go. A S/42 1937 that had a unique grip adapter made most likely in field.

 

[Absalom]

…..
My double dated Luger has 2 State Police Unit markings. One is XXX'd out, so I guess it had been transferred from one unit to another.

Either that, or it was also common for early markings following the 1922 Prussian regulations (or even earlier non-standard local ones) to be cancelled out and updated to the 1932 simplified rules, without the gun going anywhere.

Can you post a photo of the front strap?

I have a Berlin police gun with both 1922 and 1932 markings:

 

[22lrfan]

I've pick up three of them over the years at pawn shops. The 1916 is all matching including the magazine. The other two are matching except for the mag.

 

[sheepdawg]

My dad bought a matching 1916 DWM, except for the two WW2 Mauser mags, holster, tool, 6 boxes of 1944 stamped 9mm. ammo, 1944 U.S. Army folding roadmap of France, Belgium and Luxembourg, a very nice German m40 helmet and a pair of original Luger black widow grips in 1960 for $100. I still have it all.

I guess it was decent deal.

 

[Absalom]

…. in 1960 for $100. I still have it all.

I guess it was decent deal.

Well, according to common inflation calculators that would be about $935 today.

Still one heck of a deal you could easily multiply a few times if necessary in today‘s market

 

[GypsmJim]

Either that, or it was also common for early markings following the 1922 Prussian regulations (or even earlier non-standard local ones) to be cancelled out and updated to the 1932 simplified rules, without the gun going anywhere.

Can you post a photo of the front strap?

I have a Berlin police gun with both 1922 and 1932 markings:

Here are 2 shots...

The XXX'd out letters appear to be "S.L. Pol." The visible letters are "SP. L."

 

[Absalom]

Here are 2 shots...

The XXX'd out letters appear to be "S.L. Pol." The visible letters are "SP. L."

Indeed. The gun didn‘t change hands and may have continued to be carried by the same officer. Except this wasn‘t Prussia, but Saxony, so they had their own reorganization and timeline. The old marking is from around 1920, the new style was introduced in 1928.

The old marking stands for „Sächsische Landespolizei“ (Saxon State Police).

The new marking S.P. denotes „Schutzpolizei“, a standard term for the uniformed police, and the L. for the city of Leipzig in Saxony.

 

[gdogs]

Every gun guy should have a Luger.

This pretty much sums up why I own one lol. My dad always said that you have to shoot one to appreciate it. Well, I can't say it made much difference to me. I do think my stainless Stoeger American Eagle is pretty, that's about the nicest thing I can say about any Luger. They are too heavy for a single stack 9mm, sights are well... functional, and the toggle action is just plain weird. Still, it does feel good in the hand, and walnut and steel are always a plus in my book. I guess I'll keep it around a while longer .

 

[GypsmJim]

Indeed. The gun didn‘t change hands and may have continued to be carried by the same officer. Except this wasn‘t Prussia, but Saxony, so they had their own reorganization and timeline. The old marking is from around 1920, the new style was introduced in 1928.

The old marking stands for „Sächsische Landespolizei“ (Saxon State Police).

The new marking S.P. denotes „Schutzpolizei“, a standard term for the uniformed police, and the L. for the city of Leipzig in Saxony.

Thank you so much for the info. I had done research many years ago but what you provided was much more thorough.

Interestingly enough, Leipzig is only about 100 miles from my ancestor's home town.

I bought the gun in 1986. It was the first Luger I ever saw that was in my price range. The dealer was an old guy that had a small shop in his basement and all he sold were handguns. Looking back I wish I had asked more questions. It is not import marked, so all I know is that is came over before 1968.

 

[boykinlp]

A Luger is on my "want" list. Maybe one day. There are so many things to learn. I think I will get a commercial one. Seems like you can get one in better condition, for less money, than one with military or police history.
Larry

 

[Heinz]

The best "deals" on Lugers are on the 1920 to 1930 commercial models in 7.65 arabellu with the 3 7?8 to 3 3/4 inch barrel. This 30 Luger is the original cartridge the pistol was designed for and is a Nic, flat shooting round. Ammo availability can be patchy, but for a while this year it was cheaper than 9 mm.
This pistols were produced at DWM, although some are reworks, and show some of DWM's best fitting and workmanship.

Lot of information available on the original Luger forum Pistole Parabellum

 

[LVSteve]

The fact that the numbers don't match disqualifies it as a collectible weapon, but it can make for a really fun gun to shoot.

The history of the OP's Luger is likely long since lost, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a collectible just because we cannot say who replaced the barrel. While I prefer my milsurps with matching numbers, I understand the realities faced by the military apparatus in time of war means that things are done that would make purist collectors scream. If it was done by the military/government owner I have no problem with it.

Yes, I own a mixed parts Garand, and I just blank out the hissed "Blasphemer!" comments from the "correctors" as I call them when they pass me on the street.

 

[Benton Quest]

Yes, if someone owns a "proper" all matching Garand or M1 carbine, they are probably in possession of something assembled non organically by a fraudulent gun nerd.

Those pieces and parts all got swapped around like a seventies swinger party...and no one cared. They weren't collectibles, they were just tools.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

 

[CLASSIC12]

Yes, if someone owns a "proper" all matching Garand or M1 carbine, they are probably in possession of something assembled non organically by a fraudulent gun nerd.

Those pieces and parts all got swapped around like a seventies swinger party...and no one cared. They weren't collectibles, they were just tools.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

I think my M1 Carbine is in original condition. I live in Switzerland and it was probably left behind after the war.

U.S. CARBINE CAL. 30 M1 - Underwood Elliott Fisher Company

 

[Tntcwg3]

I really appreciate all the sharing of knowledge, quite a bit of it here concerning the Luger's lineage. As a result, i've invested several hours researching and gaining insight on Luger history. Special thanks to CZU, Gypsmjim, and Absalom who put me onto the right track. Here are some more details on my specific pistol, with more to come as I continue researching. I can see where this could easily become another obsession.
1) Originally a DWM 1918 military contract Luger (dated chamber).
2) All visible numbers are matching.
3) It has been reworked, barrel is not serialed, but is proofmarked and numbered "3" to indicate this is the 3rd barrel. Match mark is lined-up. Has Simson 33 waffenamts and Polizeischule Technik markings, and sear safety has been installed.
4) Grip frame and grip panels are unmarked, no unit markings.
5) Magazine is the later aluminum variety but is serialed to the gun and has the police contract eagle "-L" and "1" police markings.
6) Holster has the mag tool and both are serialed to the gun. holster appears to be an Akah, but has had the strap replaced at some point with a snap type button closure and appears to be professionally installed. Stitching for the original strap attachment is still present.
7) It has been refinished, whether during the rework process or later is unknown.
8) Purchase price was $1500, which I considered reasonable given the condition and holster. Unless it were a nice deal on a Navy or Artillery version, it's likely that this will be the only example in my collection.

 

[GypsmJim]

I really appreciate all the sharing of knowledge, quite a bit of it here concerning the Luger's lineage. As a result, i've invested several hours researching and gaining insight on Luger history. Special thanks to CZU, Gypsmjim, and Absalom who put me onto the right track. Here are some more details on my specific pistol, with more to come as I continue researching. I can see where this could easily become another obsession.
1) Originally a DWM 1918 military contract Luger (dated chamber).
2) All visible numbers are matching.
3) It has been reworked, barrel is not serialed, but is proofmarked and numbered "3" to indicate this is the 3rd barrel. Match mark is lined-up. Has Simson 33 waffenamts and Polizeischule Technik markings, and sear safety has been installed.
4) Grip frame and grip panels are unmarked, no unit markings.
5) Magazine is the later aluminum variety but is serialed to the gun and has the police contract eagle "-L" and "1" police markings.
6) Holster has the mag tool and both are serialed to the gun. holster appears to be an Akah, but has had the strap replaced at some point with a snap type button closure and appears to be professionally installed. Stitching for the original strap attachment is still present.
7) It has been refinished, whether during the rework process or later is unknown.
8) Purchase price was $1500, which I considered reasonable given the condition and holster. Unless it were a nice deal on a Navy or Artillery version, it's likely that this will be the only example in my collection.

Based on all your current info, I'd say you got one heck of a collectable. If it were mine it would be the only one I'd need in my collection.

 

[Tntcwg3]

A few more pics.

 

[Tntcwg3]

All in all, I can see how these things could become addictive, there's a lot of variation and historical records available. Anybody know if there's a 12 step program? I've already got issues with wanting every other S&W and Marlin I come across!

 

[2152hq]

Pic #2 above of the bbl marking..
That entire marking (The Eagle and the Letters above it) said to be a Weimar era rework mark indicating the bbl acceptance.
Listed as the 'Berlin Police Armory acceptance stamp'
5 variations of the mark shown in 'Standard Catalog of Lugers'
One is of the mark on the OP's pistol bbl.

Says it appears on both DWM and Erfurt 'Dated & Undated Police Reworks'
There are many different Police Reworks from the Weimar Era.
Dated, Double Dated, Undated.
..But none are supposed to have just the old German Armory mfg'r date on the chamber alone (1918 in this case.) IIRC
The Sear Safety was a Weimar add on.

But the Eagle/33 do appear as Simson Inspectors Marks,,one of several seen on the Simson Weimar Luger reworks.

Simson did do Luger reworks and new builds in the Weimar Era starting around '23.
IIRC from the same book,,They marked their rebuilt older recycled Lugers with a chamber date of 1917 or 1918 regardless of what was orig on them.
New production were marked Simson on the toggle. I think the recycled guns were left to their old mfgr markings.

Interesting gun for sure,,lots of travels that one has taken..
Nice holster and then a matching ser# Nazi era Police E/L magazine to top it all off.

 

[Heinz]

Simson was a Jewish owned firm, which led to their demise and transfer of equipment at the end.
They bought the inventory and machinery from the government Erfurt factory. That also accounts for the artillery sight notch on the frame. All of the 1917 and 1918 Erfurt frames had the artillery notch.
They did NOT re stamp the chambers with new dates. If the chamber had a date mark they just left it alone. Simson did mark the toggle with their name on Lugers they produced, or largely produced. Simson and others who reworked Lugers to bring them in compliance with treaty requirements usually left with their original markings. The Pistole Parabelum site I posted above has some of the worlds most noted Simson Luger experts on it. There is an book on Simson Luger written by Ed Tinker and available at pretty reasonable price that would go nicely with that Police Luger