First Luger!

[Heinz]

The best "deals" on Lugers are on the 1920 to 1930 commercial models in 7.65 arabellu with the 3 7?8 to 3 3/4 inch barrel. This 30 Luger is the original cartridge the pistol was designed for and is a Nic, flat shooting round. Ammo availability can be patchy, but for a while this year it was cheaper than 9 mm.
This pistols were produced at DWM, although some are reworks, and show some of DWM's best fitting and workmanship.

Lot of information available on the original Luger forum Pistole Parabellum

 

[LVSteve]

The fact that the numbers don't match disqualifies it as a collectible weapon, but it can make for a really fun gun to shoot.

The history of the OP's Luger is likely long since lost, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a collectible just because we cannot say who replaced the barrel. While I prefer my milsurps with matching numbers, I understand the realities faced by the military apparatus in time of war means that things are done that would make purist collectors scream. If it was done by the military/government owner I have no problem with it.

Yes, I own a mixed parts Garand, and I just blank out the hissed "Blasphemer!" comments from the "correctors" as I call them when they pass me on the street.

 

[Benton Quest]

Yes, if someone owns a "proper" all matching Garand or M1 carbine, they are probably in possession of something assembled non organically by a fraudulent gun nerd.

Those pieces and parts all got swapped around like a seventies swinger party...and no one cared. They weren't collectibles, they were just tools.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

 

[CLASSIC12]

Yes, if someone owns a "proper" all matching Garand or M1 carbine, they are probably in possession of something assembled non organically by a fraudulent gun nerd.

Those pieces and parts all got swapped around like a seventies swinger party...and no one cared. They weren't collectibles, they were just tools.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

I think my M1 Carbine is in original condition. I live in Switzerland and it was probably left behind after the war.

U.S. CARBINE CAL. 30 M1 - Underwood Elliott Fisher Company

 

[Tntcwg3]

I really appreciate all the sharing of knowledge, quite a bit of it here concerning the Luger's lineage. As a result, i've invested several hours researching and gaining insight on Luger history. Special thanks to CZU, Gypsmjim, and Absalom who put me onto the right track. Here are some more details on my specific pistol, with more to come as I continue researching. I can see where this could easily become another obsession.
1) Originally a DWM 1918 military contract Luger (dated chamber).
2) All visible numbers are matching.
3) It has been reworked, barrel is not serialed, but is proofmarked and numbered "3" to indicate this is the 3rd barrel. Match mark is lined-up. Has Simson 33 waffenamts and Polizeischule Technik markings, and sear safety has been installed.
4) Grip frame and grip panels are unmarked, no unit markings.
5) Magazine is the later aluminum variety but is serialed to the gun and has the police contract eagle "-L" and "1" police markings.
6) Holster has the mag tool and both are serialed to the gun. holster appears to be an Akah, but has had the strap replaced at some point with a snap type button closure and appears to be professionally installed. Stitching for the original strap attachment is still present.
7) It has been refinished, whether during the rework process or later is unknown.
8) Purchase price was $1500, which I considered reasonable given the condition and holster. Unless it were a nice deal on a Navy or Artillery version, it's likely that this will be the only example in my collection.

 

[GypsmJim]

I really appreciate all the sharing of knowledge, quite a bit of it here concerning the Luger's lineage. As a result, i've invested several hours researching and gaining insight on Luger history. Special thanks to CZU, Gypsmjim, and Absalom who put me onto the right track. Here are some more details on my specific pistol, with more to come as I continue researching. I can see where this could easily become another obsession.
1) Originally a DWM 1918 military contract Luger (dated chamber).
2) All visible numbers are matching.
3) It has been reworked, barrel is not serialed, but is proofmarked and numbered "3" to indicate this is the 3rd barrel. Match mark is lined-up. Has Simson 33 waffenamts and Polizeischule Technik markings, and sear safety has been installed.
4) Grip frame and grip panels are unmarked, no unit markings.
5) Magazine is the later aluminum variety but is serialed to the gun and has the police contract eagle "-L" and "1" police markings.
6) Holster has the mag tool and both are serialed to the gun. holster appears to be an Akah, but has had the strap replaced at some point with a snap type button closure and appears to be professionally installed. Stitching for the original strap attachment is still present.
7) It has been refinished, whether during the rework process or later is unknown.
8) Purchase price was $1500, which I considered reasonable given the condition and holster. Unless it were a nice deal on a Navy or Artillery version, it's likely that this will be the only example in my collection.

Based on all your current info, I'd say you got one heck of a collectable. If it were mine it would be the only one I'd need in my collection.

 

[Tntcwg3]

A few more pics.

 

[Tntcwg3]

All in all, I can see how these things could become addictive, there's a lot of variation and historical records available. Anybody know if there's a 12 step program? I've already got issues with wanting every other S&W and Marlin I come across!

 

[2152hq]

Pic #2 above of the bbl marking..
That entire marking (The Eagle and the Letters above it) said to be a Weimar era rework mark indicating the bbl acceptance.
Listed as the 'Berlin Police Armory acceptance stamp'
5 variations of the mark shown in 'Standard Catalog of Lugers'
One is of the mark on the OP's pistol bbl.

Says it appears on both DWM and Erfurt 'Dated & Undated Police Reworks'
There are many different Police Reworks from the Weimar Era.
Dated, Double Dated, Undated.
..But none are supposed to have just the old German Armory mfg'r date on the chamber alone (1918 in this case.) IIRC
The Sear Safety was a Weimar add on.

But the Eagle/33 do appear as Simson Inspectors Marks,,one of several seen on the Simson Weimar Luger reworks.

Simson did do Luger reworks and new builds in the Weimar Era starting around '23.
IIRC from the same book,,They marked their rebuilt older recycled Lugers with a chamber date of 1917 or 1918 regardless of what was orig on them.
New production were marked Simson on the toggle. I think the recycled guns were left to their old mfgr markings.

Interesting gun for sure,,lots of travels that one has taken..
Nice holster and then a matching ser# Nazi era Police E/L magazine to top it all off.

 

[Heinz]

Simson was a Jewish owned firm, which led to their demise and transfer of equipment at the end.
They bought the inventory and machinery from the government Erfurt factory. That also accounts for the artillery sight notch on the frame. All of the 1917 and 1918 Erfurt frames had the artillery notch.
They did NOT re stamp the chambers with new dates. If the chamber had a date mark they just left it alone. Simson did mark the toggle with their name on Lugers they produced, or largely produced. Simson and others who reworked Lugers to bring them in compliance with treaty requirements usually left with their original markings. The Pistole Parabelum site I posted above has some of the worlds most noted Simson Luger experts on it. There is an book on Simson Luger written by Ed Tinker and available at pretty reasonable price that would go nicely with that Police Luger

 

[Golddollar]

OK, this is definitely not a collector piece. Apparently a lot of Lugers got chrome plated after the war. And it came with an aftermarket magazine. But all the other numbers match. It has "byf" on the toggle and "41" on the chamber, so my reference source said it was made by the boatload by Mauser in 1941.

I had a collector grade Luger once upon a time but when I lost my job in 2009 I sold it through the local auction house. Come years later I'm working again and this gun turned up in the same auction house. I like shiny guns anyway, and I wanted to have a Luger I wouldn't be afraid to shoot, so it came home with me. So now I have a shooter and hopefully my old Luger is somebody's safe queen. I can probably shoot it all I want and probably always get out what I paid for it.

 

[2152hq]

Good Shooter Luger..
One of the 'Black Widow' Lugers. A collectors moniker for the original combination of the black hotsalt blue/black finish, the black plastic grips and the black plastic magazine bottoms.
No straw colored small parts,,everything was that same black color hot salt blue.
Ralph Shattuck came up with the phrase in his Luger buy/sell business.

My first Luger I ever bought is a byf/41 . Came with holster, loading tool, 2 mags,,one matching.
Bought it in 1971 for $100. My Sgt was selling it and a late 60's BHP also $100.
I took the Luger,,my buddy took the BHP,,which he still has last time I spoke to him.

The next Luger I bought was a 1908 Commercial. It had a Haenel Schmeisser magazine in it.
I had to pay $200 for that one.
I was shocked,,Shocked I tell you

 

[farrell]

Inspect the holster and loading tool very closley for markings some of the tools and holsters are very high doller.

 

[shil]

Lugers are neat!

 

[Golddollar]

Today I decided it was time to take my 80 year old Luger up to the indoor range and put some rounds through it. For your perusal I have attached the two targets. The orange target is two magazines of mixed brands of ammunition, more of a function test. I was pleased that I only had one stoppage and I just pulled back on the toggle and got back to shooting. The black target is of 5 rounds of a single brand of shells with no stoppages. Both targets were shot two-handed with 6 o'clock holds.

Considering that the chrome put some glare on the front sight I am pretty pleased with how this old gun with an old shooter did.