First time problem, bullets creeping out

[glenwolde]

I like and agree with this article. Roll crimp for revolver and taper crimp for semi-autos. Exceptions do exist, but nothing more solid than a nice roll of brass seated in the cannelure of the bullet or over the top of a fully encased wadcutter. The makers of reloading dies usually give you the preferred crimp dies in the set. For revolvers its almost always a roll crimp.

Cartridge Crimping Styles and Uses - Gun Digest

This is one of those exceptions, as your referenced article confirms.

 

[wagonman]

Should not be even close to enough recoil with that load of WIN 231: something is off with either the expansion or the crimp. How much resistance is noticed as the rounds are going through the carbide portion of the die? Where are you crimping? Are you loading to some arbitrary ("published"?) OAL or is there an actual crimp groove? If these are swaged they probably need to be crimped over the shoulder.

Cheers!

Use a mild roll crimp over the shoulder on this swaged lead bullet and drop your powder charge a few tenths,

 

[rockquarry]

So I managed to get some trigger time in yesterday. Took my new to me 586 and fairly new to me model 19 both 357 magnums out.

Had a mixture of 125 gr XTP's with 2400. 125 gr. JSP's with Blue dot, both 357 mag. And a box of 38's with 158 gr. Hornady LSWC's loaded with 3.9 grs W231 and standard SPP's.

Well both guns shot the magnum's great. Just shooting off a rickety table with no sandbags. Man the trigger on that 19 is just light and crisp. Not that the 586 is awful, it's nice too, awyways.

After I shot 3 of the 158 gr LSWC in the model 19 I couldn't cock the hammer, cylinder was locked up. I was like what the...? Turned the revolver slightly sideways and discovered problem. Bullets were sticking out past the front of the cylinder.

I crimped them with my new Lee FC die and I guess I took it a little to easy on the crimp? The magnums were roll crimped with a standard lee bullet seating die, fairly heavy.

Moral of the story is I've learned you can't get away with a light crimp even on mild load in 38 special.

There's no real definition for "light" or "heavy" crimps as they are relative terms that mean different degrees of crimp to different people. A taper crimp or roll crimp is fine with .38 Special or .357 Magnum as long as your die isn't out whack dimensionally and your bullets aren't undersize. You can use a Lee factory crimp die of you want, but you don't need it if you're doing everything right.

Just a suggestion before you make a decision on a taper or roll crimp as the final choice...try both and shoot some groups at 25 yards. I go with what's most accurate. True, a taper crimp is better for use with a bullet lacking a cannelure. When you crimp with either method, crimp just enough to hold the bullet in place under recoil - and no more. This will take some experimentation. Push the loaded cartridge hard against a hard object, bench top, etc. If it holds, do some shooting to verify, but the bullet probably won't move at all under recoil.

Some suggest a heavy crimp (again that can't really be defined), but I've seen photos that show roll crimps so heavy that the bullet has to suffer distortion and that's not good for accuracy. I've never bought into the "a heavy crimp makes for better powder burn" because I've seen no evidence of this in almost sixty years of handloading. Good luck-

 

[glenwolde]

One other option: if you don't have too many, just shoot them one at a time. Still beats pulling the loaded rounds apart.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Thanks,

Just remembered, my 357 dies are RCBS just standard 3 die set. I crimped all the 357 loads with them without issue. The regular RCBS bullet seating die crimp (roll isn't it)? will do won't it? For the Hornady 158 LSWC

There is nothing wrong with the RCBS 3 set dies for your reloading.
One sizes, the other deprimes and the other seats & crimps the bullet.
It does not get any simpler.

You just have to set the amount of crimp on you loads by trial and error
with cases that are the same OAL, for best results.

You should set your die for a light, medium and heavy crimp
for the types of loads that you may try out.

Get er done.

 

[SweetMK]

One issue that I did not notice mentioned was barrel length,,

I bought the 629 below,,

Somewhere in the documentation that came with the gun, it discussed checking that the bullets did not "pull" do to recoil of the other rounds fired.

I guess there is actually a function to not having the cylinder fluted?? (more weight)

Anyways,, I have never noticed a problem,, but, mostly I shoot a 6" 629 with a full lug.

So, how long is the barrel on the gun that had the bullets pull??

 

[Forrest r]

The oal should be 1.475" per the hornady manual.

Use your standard rcbs crimp die and roll crimp the hornady lead swc's like you would any other bullet. Putting a "crimp groove" in that swaged lead bullet when putting a roll crimp on your reloads won't hurt anything.

The issue you're having is too small of an expander ball. The case isn't expanded large enough or deep enough. When seating that soft lead bullet it's getting swaged down at the bottom/base of the bullet. Harder lead & jacketed bullets don't have this issue. The 2nd thing that happening is as others have stated, the lee fc die is swaging the soft lead bullet down also.

 

[Miracle Man]

One issue that I did not notice mentioned was barrel length,,

I bought the 629 below,,

Somewhere in the documentation that came with the gun, it discussed checking that the bullets did not "pull" do to recoil of the other rounds fired.

I guess there is actually a function to not having the cylinder fluted?? (more weight)

Anyways,, I have never noticed a problem,, but, mostly I shoot a 6" 629 with a full lug.

So, how long is the barrel on the gun that had the bullets pull??

4"

 

[BE Mike]

First rounds I ever loaded over 50 years ago were .38 SPL, using a Lee Loader. They all worked great from the git go. I don't think the Lee Factory Crimp Die is optimum for revolver cartridges. A very good roll crimp into the crimp groove of the bullet keeps the bullets in place. As someone else stated a good 3 die set of carbide dies is all you need.

 

[SweetMK]

4"

A 4 inch barrel should be long enough to rule out gun weight.

My first ever attempt at reloading was for my Thompson Contender,,

I crimped those 44MAG rounds,, with no other rounds in the gun to change the OAL!!! LOL!!

Live and learn,,

 

[LostintheOzone]

First rounds I ever loaded over 50 years ago were .38 SPL, using a Lee Loader. They all worked great from the git go. I don't think the Lee Factory Crimp Die is optimum for revolver cartridges. A very good roll crimp into the crimp groove of the bullet keeps the bullets in place. As someone else stated a good 3 die set of carbide dies is all you need.

It is but a seater/crimp die is two step operation to adjust. Trial and error and time consuming. I know it works but anytime you change bullets or 357 to 38 spl and back it's a PIA. So, buy two sets of dies or just crimp in a separate operation with a 90861 LFC die. It does a very nice job of applying a roll crimp and it's a snap to adjust for different bullets/cartridges.

As an aside, I use the RCBS seater/crimp die for 32 Long but it's used exclusively for 32 Long and the bullets never change. Set it once and forget it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It is but a seater/crimp die is two step operation to adjust. Trial and error and time consuming. I know it works but anytime you change bullets or 357 to 38 spl and back it's a PIA. So, buy two sets of dies or just crimp in a separate operation with a 90861 LFC die. It does a very nice job of applying a roll crimp and it's a snap to adjust for different bullets/cartridges.

As an aside, I use the RCBS seater/crimp die for 32 Long but it's used exclusively for 32 Long and the bullets never change. Set it once and forget it.

If all your brass is close to the same length

When you load a different type of bullet, just make a "Dummy load" w/o a primer & powder
to add to your collection, and you can adust your crimping, on the next time you load this bullet,

Your OAL will be perfect , unless the factory has a bullet with the "Can" in the wrong spot on the bullet,
which has happened to me, two times with a JHP.

 

[BE Mike]

It is but a seater/crimp die is two step operation to adjust. Trial and error and time consuming. I know it works but anytime you change bullets or 357 to 38 spl and back it's a PIA. So, buy two sets of dies or just crimp in a separate operation with a 90861 LFC die. It does a very nice job of applying a roll crimp and it's a snap to adjust for different bullets/cartridges.

As an aside, I use the RCBS seater/crimp die for 32 Long but it's used exclusively for 32 Long and the bullets never change. Set it once and forget it.

Yes, I should have thought about that. I always crimp in a separate operation, whether it is a roll or taper crimp.

 

[rockquarry]

It is but a seater/crimp die is two step operation to adjust. Trial and error and time consuming. I know it works but anytime you change bullets or 357 to 38 spl and back it's a PIA. So, buy two sets of dies or just crimp in a separate operation with a 90861 LFC die. It does a very nice job of applying a roll crimp and it's a snap to adjust for different bullets/cartridges.

As an aside, I use the RCBS seater/crimp die for 32 Long but it's used exclusively for 32 Long and the bullets never change. Set it once and forget it.

You need to adjust the dies and crimp one time only for .38 Special and .357 Magnum using the same die set. Once adjusted for .38 Special, put the RCBS washer between any of the dies and the press and it will work perfectly for .357 Magnum.

I believe RCBS included the washer in the die set. If not, they can furnish you with one or purchase a washer that is .228" thick that is just a hair larger in diameter than your die.

 

[Miracle Man]

You need to adjust the dies and crimp one time only for .38 Special and .357 Magnum using the same die set. Once adjusted for .38 Special, put the RCBS washer between any of the dies and the press and it will work perfectly for .357 Magnum.

I believe RCBS included the washer in the die set. If not, they can furnish you with one or purchase a washer that is .228" thick that is just a hair larger in diameter than your die.

Great tip, thanks

 

[rockquarry]

Great tip, thanks

I can't take credit for that. RCBS has had the washer for many years. Maybe they no longer include it in die sets. I haven't bought any RCBS or other dies in a while so I'm not up on current stuff.

 

[Model19man]

It is but a seater/crimp die is two step operation to adjust. Trial and error and time consuming. I know it works but anytime you change bullets or 357 to 38 spl and back it's a PIA. So, buy two sets of dies or just crimp in a separate operation with a 90861 LFC die. It does a very nice job of applying a roll crimp and it's a snap to adjust for different bullets/cartridges.

As an aside, I use the RCBS seater/crimp die for 32 Long but it's used exclusively for 32 Long and the bullets never change. Set it once and forget it.

Yes since I started doing this the quality of my reloads has greatly improved. This and paying attention to the crimp groove and overall cartridge length are things you will learn.

 

[rockquarry]

As far as seating and crimping in two steps or one...Try it both ways and compare accuracy by firing a few groups off the bench at 25 yds. I realize it's seems to be sound "conventional wisdom" to do it in two steps and I prefer that myself, but you may find accuracy is the same either way. Of course, if you're cases are all different lengths and you crimp heavily to the point there is bullet distortion, neither crimping method will result in the utmost accuracy.