First Time Seating Bullets, Not Good!

[kbm6893]

I am new to reloading and am getting ready to start throwing powder. I have resized and deprimed my brass, cleaned it, and expanded the case mouth to accept the bullet. I figured I'd get some practice in by seating some bullets without primer and powder. I figured I'd use the dummy rounds for training. Experience was NOT good.

First of all, I have 150 grain lead round nose bullets. They feel very soft to me. I will be using plated at the least from now on, if not jacketed.

I screwed up the first few big time. Seating die was WAY to low. Manual says to screw in it till it touches the shell holder, then back it out three full turns. Only problem is there is no numbers on the die to determine if I turned it 3 full times, and the first time was way low and it smashed the brass. I figured out to use the "E" in the "Lee" stamped on the die as a reference point. OK, lesson learned.

So i start seating bullets and adjust the depth with the knob on top. MAX OAL is 1.440. I'm getting very close, but the bullets look totally different, even though they are the same length. Here's a pic:



No, I did not trim my brass. I did chamfer them using the included tool. Nearly everything I have read says trimming pistol brass, especially revolver brass, is rarely necessary. They are a mix of .38 Special brands. I guess maybe I have to sort the brass and keep the sizes together. Didn't know there would be a difference in size of brass.

OK, the real disaster was the crimping. I am using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. The manual (and videos I have watched), say to screw the die in until it just touches the shell holder and back out the crimp knob all the way. Then put a shell into the holder and raise the ram into the die. The screw the crimp knob all the way "until you feel it touch the bullet", and then screw 1/2 turn more for light crimp, one full turn for medium. Only problem is I did not "feel" the die hit the bullet. I just kept going until it stopped, which was all the way down.

I don't mind trashing some brass and using the bullets, but up until now, everything was rolling along nice and smooth. Today has me second guessing whether I should have gotten into reloading at all, although I am not ready to give up.

 

[Rule3]

Do you have the LEE manual? If so it will save a lot of typing. Go to page 75-76. It explains setting up the die better than what comes with the dies, If not, let me know and it will type it out.

Just use a Sharpie marker and put a line on the die body and the seating stem knob. Then you can determine how many turns.

The FCD is simple to set up but lets get the regular seating die first (it also will crimp)

 

[Biginge]

Did you flare the case mouth just a tad when you resized?

 

[OKFC05]

The easiest way to set dies to about what you need is to use a factory loaded round to get in the ballpark. Then you can try one and adjust as needed. If you are going to use the factory crimp die, then your seat/crimp die should be set to just seat. The body of the seat/crimp die does the crimp, while the stem controls seat depth.
Adjust body first, then stem. Be sure you flare after sizing before you try to seat.

If you can get someone to mentor you, it will save you a lot of guessing. Also, NRA loading classes are available.

 

[kbm6893]

Do you have the LEE manual? If so it will save a lot of typing. Go to page 75-76. It explains setting up the die better than what comes with the dies, If not, let me know and it will type it out.

Just use a Sharpie marker and put a line on the die body and the seating stem knob. Then you can determine how many turns.

The FCD is simple to set up but lets get the regular seating die first (it also will crimp)

No, I do not have the manual. I am using the Hornady press with the Lock and Load bushings. I will mark the bushing and the die the next time. Using the "E" in the Lee stamped on there was a pretty good indicator, but a mark would be better.

One thing I did notice is very often on the first seat, I would get resistance and kind of have to force it a bit. That can't be good for the brass. What do you make of the different length brass? Something to deal with by sorting the brass?

 

[kbm6893]

Did you flare the case mouth just a tad when you resized?

Yes. Testing it by putting a bullet in to make sure it would seat.

 

[HCH]

Something with the case length looks odd. Can you post a picture of the head stamps for those three cartridges?

The case length should be the same for all three, but it doesn't look like that. The one in the center looks short and even the bullet profile looks different.

 

[kbm6893]

Something with the case length looks odd. Can you post a picture of the head stamps for those three cartridges?

The case length should be the same for all three, but it doesn't look like that. The one in the center looks short and even the bullet profile looks different.

From left to right:

R-P .38 Special

Federal .38 Special

Federal .38 Special

I agree something is up with the case length. Didn't expect that.

 

[Biginge]

Use as micrometer and measure the base of the bullet. 150 gr. is not a real common weight for .357/.38 bullet. I have gotten these out of spec. and there is nothing you can do cept melt them down or such.

 

[Rule3]

Setting the seating die

With a sized and flared case in the holder,Raise the ram to the top. leave the lock ring loose

Screw the whole die in until it stops on the case mouth (hold the press lever down so it does not move) The die is now set with NO crimp. If you want it to crimp turn it 1/2 turn more. But don't as you are going to use the crimp die (yes folks do not like it but use it for now)

Back out the seating knob on top untill you see threads, Now put a bullet on the case and raise the ram. It should be real long. Now keep turning the top know a little at a time and raise the ram untill you get the COL you want.

Done, if you are going to use the FCD which you should for now as it's easier to adjust and you will not have to change your seating die.

Once you have the bullet seated to the correct length.

FCD

Without a bullet in the holder. Raise the ram and screw the whole die until it hits the shell holder Tighten the lock ring.

Now back out the top knob. Put the loaded round into the holder, raise the ram and screw down the top knob until it stops on the bullet. Now lower the ram and turn the top knob 1/2 to 3/4 turn to crimp. Raise the ram you will feel it size and needed and crimp.

That's it. My 2 fingers are bleeding!

 

[kbm6893]

Setting the seating die

With a sized and flared case in the holder,Raise the ram to the top. leave the lock ring loose

Screw the whole die in until it stops on the case mouth (hold the press lever down so it does not move) The die is now set with NO crimp. If you want it to crimp turn it 1/2 turn more. But don't as you are going to use the crimp die (yes folks do not like it but use it for now)

Back out the seating knob on top untill you see threads, Now put a bullet on the case and raise the ram. It should be real long. Now keep turning the top know a little at a time and raise the ram untill you get the COL you want.

Done, if you are going to use the FCD which you should for now as it's easier to adjust and you will not have to change your seating die.

Once you have the bullet seated to the correct length.

FCD

Without a bullet in the holder. Raise the ram and screw the whole die until it hits the shell holder Tighten the lock ring.

Now back out the top knob. Put the loaded round into the holder, raise the ram and screw down the top knob until it stops on the bullet. Now lower the ram and turn the top knob 1/2 to 3/4 turn to crimp. Raise the ram you will feel it size and needed and crimp.

That's it. My 2 fingers are bleeding!

Thanks for taking the time. I will try it now. As for the FCD, the issue I had was I did not feel the die touch the bullet. And the bullet is up in the die so I can't see it touch. But I'm gonna go try a few more right now.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks for taking the time. I will try it now. As for the FCD, the issue I had was I did not feel the die touch the bullet. And the bullet is up in the die so I can't see it touch. But I'm gonna go try a few more right now.

Any time.
The bullet has to be seated correctly before the FCD will work or you can "feel" it touch. It will just stop . Not much to feel

 

[venomballistics]

looks like a 38 special between a pair of 357 mags to me.
It could be worse, you could be reloading for 45-70 and run into the brass Hornady used for the FTX loads.
in my case, the die is nearly contacting the shell holder when setting a crimp, the shorter leverevolution brass means I have to back the die out and set the round to be crimped on top of the shell holder.

 

[quneur]

I see a ring around the middle brass a third of the way up that's missing from the right one. Perhaps, its from a different batch. Could a previous owner tried to trim it but trimmed it too much?

 

[madd matt]

In your photo it looks like the outer two cases are 357 magnum and the middle one is 38 special. 38 special max length is 1.155" with a trim length of 1.145". 357 magnum max length is 1.290" with a trim length of 1.280". This according to Hornady 8th edition. I would recomend that you measure and sort your brass, and don't relay only by headstamp.
Be safe, and take your time.
Madd Matt

 

[kbm6893]

OK, tried it again and better, but I have a few more questions:

You said when setting the seating die, to put a flared and sized case in the holder and raise the ram, leaving the lock ring loose. Screw in the seating die until it stops on the case mouth, now the die is set to no crimp. At this point, I should tighten the lock ring on that location, correct?

Back out the seating knob until I see threads, then raise the brass with bullet and adjust the knob until I get to my seating depth OAL? How do I lock in that setting? It's real sensitive. Most of my rounds came out 1.432-1.434. The maximum OAL is 1.440.

As for the FCD, I place the seated bullet into the holder and raise it, then screw the die until it hits the shell holder or the top of the bullet? If it's hitting the shell holder the whole bullet is up in the die and I can't see it.

To set the crimp, back out the top knob and put the loaded round in the holder, the raise the ram into the die and screw down the top knob until it hits the bullet. Now, when it hits that bullet, there is NO WAY to get beyond it, so I turn until I physically cannot turn it any more? Cause I get a bit of resistance as I screw on the top nob, but I'm going through that until it physically stops?. When it hits the bullet, lower the bullet from the die, and turn 1/2 to 3/4 to crimp, right?

Here are the completed rounds. Look much better and I can see the crimp.



I really don't like the lead rounds. Seem very soft and I imagine will badly lead the barrel, but I have a Lewis Lead Remover. I think I seated the bullets a tad low. Assuming these were live rounds, you think they'd be good to go to fire?

 

[kbm6893]

looks like a 38 special between a pair of 357 mags to me.
It could be worse, you could be reloading for 45-70 and run into the brass Hornady used for the FTX loads.
in my case, the die is nearly contacting the shell holder when setting a crimp, the shorter leverevolution brass means I have to back the die out and set the round to be crimped on top of the shell holder.

I checked that. They are all .38. The brass is mostly factory stuff I have fired over the years, but I recall buying a few boxes of factory reloaded ammo over the years so they might have a few reloaded ones in there.

 

[Neumann]

The SIZING die is screwed in until it touches the shell holder. A carbide die is then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn, whereas a steel (only) die is screwed in another 1/4 turn for an interference fit.

The SEATING/CRIMPING die is set using an empty case or factory loaded round. Back off the seating post (the center of the seating die), and with the ram in the full-up position, screw in the die body until the crimp ring contacts the crimped case, if you wish to crimp. If you use an empty case, the die should touch the case, plus another 1/2 turn.

With a case and properly seated bullet, raise the ram and adust the seating post until it just touches the bullet. I keep a dummy round (painted, no powder, no primer) in the die box for this purpose.

Make fine adjustments to OAL specifications by seating a bullet and measuring the length. Start long and work toward the spec. In a progressive press, have a cartridge in each station before making the final adjustments. The press can "grow" 0.003" or more under load.

The expansion die (if any) should be adjusted so that there is just enough flare to seat the bullet about 1/16" by hand. Typically you can feel the flare, but not see it. Too much, and the case may split or stick in the seating die. Too little, and the bullet may be shaved, or start crooked and damage the case.

If you adjust the seating die as you describe, you will grossly over crimp the case (e.g., the short case in your photo), or completely crush the case.

 

[kbm6893]

The SIZING die is screwed in until it touches the shell holder. A carbide die is then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn, whereas a steel (only) die is screwed in another 1/4 turn for an interference fit.

The SEATING/CRIMPING die is set using an empty case or factory loaded round. Back off the seating post (the center of the seating die), and with the ram in the full-up position, screw in the die body until the crimp ring contacts the crimped case, if you wish to crimp. If you use an empty case, the die should touch the case, plus another 1/2 turn.

With a case and properly seated bullet, raise the ram and adust the seating post until it just touches the bullet. I keep a dummy round (painted, no powder, no primer) in the die box for this purpose.

Make fine adjustments to OAL specifications by seating a bullet and measuring the length. Start long and work toward the spec. In a progressive press, have a cartridge in each station before making the final adjustments. The press can "grow" 0.003" or more under load.

The expansion die (if any) should be adjusted so that there is just enough flare to seat the bullet about 1/16" by hand. Typically you can feel the flare, but not see it. Too much, and the case may split or stick in the seating die. Too little, and the bullet may be shaved, or start crooked and damage the case.

If you adjust the seating die as you describe, you will grossly over crimp the case (e.g., the short case in your photo), or completely crush the case.

Yes, I meant sizing die. I know to back off the seating die three turns or the case will be crushed. I learned the hard way.

I do not want to use the crimp function on the seating die at all. Rule 3 states to screw the seating die down until it touches the case mouth, and the die is now set to no crimp. Correct?

As for the FCD, he states to raise the ram with the round until the die touches the shell holder. I just wanted to clarify that.

I'm still going to do a lot of reading and watching videos before I throw powder. I'm not looking to make any errors.

 

[Rule3]

Yes, I meant sizing die. I know to back off the seating die three turns or the case will be crushed. I learned the hard way.

I do not want to use the crimp function on the seating die at all. Rule 3 states to screw the seating die down until it touches the case mouth, and the die is now set to no crimp. Correct?

As for the FCD, he states to raise the ram with the round until the die touches the shell holder. I just wanted to clarify that.

I'm still going to do a lot of reading and watching videos before I throw powder. I'm not looking to make any errors.

Correct on the seating die. If you screw the die in anymore it will begin to crimp.

Incorrect on the FCD. Raise the ram , screw in the die only (no case) until it hits the shell holder. Lock the die ring.

Now put a seated round in the holder and screw down the adjustment knob (on top) untill it stops (hits the bullet) now back off the ram a little and screw the top knob 1/2 turn for a light crimp, 3/4 to 1 turn for a firmer crimp. If you have a cannelure on the bullet you will see the case crimp into the groove.