First Time Seating Bullets, Not Good!

kbm6893 said:
.............................................
No, I did not trim my brass. I did chamfer them using the included tool. Nearly everything I have read says trimming pistol brass, especially revolver brass, is rarely necessary. They are a mix of .38 Special brands. I guess maybe I have to sort the brass and keep the sizes together. Didn't know there would be a difference in size of brass.
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kbm
Rule is a great coach - seems like progress is being made.

But, I'm one who trims my cases for revolver rounds - don't need to get into that discussion, but if you have decided not to trim, you still should measure case lengths after resizing, especially with a group of mixed brass. If they fall within the minimum to maximum lengths in your manual - you're good to go.

Shooting 38 special cases in a 357 also gives you some additional flexibility.

good luck, have fun and be safe:D
 
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forestswin said:
kbm
Rule is a great coach - seems like progress is being made.

But, I'm one who trims my cases for revolver rounds - don't need to get into that discussion, but if you have decided not to trim, you still should the measure case lengths after resizing, especially a group of mixed brass. If they fall within the minimum to maximum lengths in your manual - you're good to go.

Shooting 38 special cases in a 357 also gives you some additional flexibility.

good luck, have fun and be safe:D
Click to expand...

Will do. How do the completed rounds look in the pic with 6 bullets? Is it my imagination or does the crimp not look crimped enough? And what do you make of the fcd further seating my bullet?
 
I see that you are LE - all the advice here is good but will only confuse you with facts you may not understand. Ask around your department to see who reloads and invite them over to see your new equipment. You know the rest.
 
That's weird. The first photo looks like two 357s and a 38 special

Sent from my Lumia 1520
 
Your picture in post #16 appears to have NO crimp at akk? Maybe a better close up picture?

Something is not right in the factory crimp die. It does not further seat a bullet.

Re do the set up on it.

Back out the top knob untill you see threads. now loosen the entire die and unscrew it a bit (up)

NOW, raise the ram all the way up with no case in it. Now screw the whole die down until it touchs the shell holder. Tighten the lock ring without moving the die.

Now put a seated UNCRIMPED round in the shell holder

Raise the ram up (you should not feel anything) now screw the top adjustment down until it touches the bullet.

Back the ram down and turn the adjustment nut 3/4 turn.

Raise the ram, the case should crimp. If you want more crimp turn the adjustment another 1/4 turn (total of 1 whole turn).

I need another nap!;)

Geese I should have thought of this earlier!!;)

Adjusting Lee Factory Crimp Die - YouTube
 
ken158 said:
I see that you are LE - all the advice here is good but will only confuse you with facts you may not understand. Ask around your department to see who reloads and invite them over to see your new equipment. You know the rest.
Click to expand...

Retired. And nobody I did work with reloaded. Why bother when you get factory ammo for free?
 
Rule3 said:
Your picture in post #16 appears to have NO crimp at akk? Maybe a better close up picture?

Something is not right in the factory crimp die. It does not further seat a bullet.

Re do the set up on it.

Back out the top knob untill you see threads. now loosen the entire die and unscrew it a bit (up)

NOW, raise the ram all the way up with no case in it. Now screw the whole die down until it touchs the shell holder. Tighten the lock ring without moving the die.

Now put a seated UNCRIMPED round in the shell holder

Raise the ram up (you should not feel anything) now screw the top adjustment down until it touches the bullet.

Back the ram down and turn the adjustment nut 3/4 turn.

Raise the ram, the case should crimp. If you want more crimp turn the adjustment another 1/4 turn (total of 1 whole turn).

I need another nap!;)

Geese I should have thought of this earlier!!;)

Adjusting Lee Factory Crimp Die - YouTube
Click to expand...

I just watched that on the lee page. Will run another few tomorrow. So the six I did in the pic look Uncrimped to you too?

Bright side is I learned more this afternoon then I did in a month. I love this forum! I'll mark those 6 rounds and use them for dummy rounds in practice
 
kbm6893 said:
Will do. How do the completed rounds look in the pic with 6 bullets? Is it my imagination or does the crimp not look crimped enough? And what do you make of the fcd further seating my bullet?
Click to expand...

Rule knows much more than I do about the Lee FCD. I use the Redding Profile crimp die on my 38 special and 357's. Its similar, but not exactly the same. I use the Lee FCD on my 9mm - but they're taper crimped.

Can you get a clearer picture of the bullet? like the picture of your six completed rounds That picture turned out clear. I know sometimes its tough getting close up pictures.

If you just sit it on top of a case, not seated, at that same distance and same lighting - it should show up clear enough.

or give the name of the bullet caster - sometimes their websites have clear pictures of their bullets.

That'll help see where the crimp is hitting on the bullet.
 
kbm6893 said:
I just watched that on the lee page. Will run another few tomorrow. So the six I did in the pic look Uncrimped to you too?

Bright side is I learned more this afternoon then I did in a month. I love this forum! I'll mark those 6 rounds and use them for dummy rounds in practice
Click to expand...

Actually the 1st picture on your first post the middle round looks crimped, maybe to long but crimped??

Were are you getting the COL from, is it the same shape and weight bullet.????

Those are some pointy RN so I am not used to seeing them. The RN that I have are not as long looking and only have 1 crimp groove.
 
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Rule3 said:
Actually the 1st picture on your first post the middle round looks crimped, maybe to long but crimped??

Were are you getting the COL from, is it the same shape and weight bullet.????

Those are some pointy RN so I am not used to seeing them. The RN that I have are not as long looking and only have 1 crimp groove.
Click to expand...

I'm getting the COL from the Lee pamphlet that came with the dies. The bullets I have are 150 grain LRN and none of the other manuals I have have data for that. Guys here told me to go with 158 grain data for it.
 
kbm6893 said:
I'm getting the COL from the Lee pamphlet that came with the dies. The bullets I have are 150 grain LRN and none of the other manuals I have have data for that. Guys here told me to go with 158 grain data for it.
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The COL then is pretty much meaningless. If it is not the exact bullet than COL will never be the same. As I mentioned somwhere in this thread it will not matter as it's a 38 in a 357 so it will fit. Just stay at or below the MAX SAAMI spec.

Somewhere around 1.460 or so. The max is 1.550 so you should be fine Whatever the crimp in the top groove of that bullet comes to. You picked a tough odd ball bullet to start out with:)

COAL will matter much more in semi autos more so in small high pressure rounds like 9mm and 40 SW.
 
Rule3 said:
The COL then is pretty much meaningless. If it is not the exact bullet than COL will never be the same. As I mentioned somwhere in this thread it will not matter as it's a 38 in a 357 so it will fit. Just stay at or below the MAX SAAMI spec.

Somewhere around 1.460 or so. The max is 1.550 so you should be fine Whatever the crimp in the top groove of that bullet comes to. You picked a tough odd ball bullet to start out with:)

COAL will matter much more in semi autos more so in small high pressure rounds like 9mm and 40 SW.
Click to expand...

Yeah. That's all the guy had. And I'm using red dot powder and there's not a lot of data for that powder with the bullet I have
 
You've been a huge help. Thank you. Be Alliant site lists a 158 grain LSWC bullet. For my first reloads I'd like to keep with the data. But I prefer plated bullets. Is there a 158 grain plated bullet that would use the same data as a LSWC bullet? Or do you know of a place that would have actual data for my 150 grain rn bullet?
 
Your bullet is not a L Semi Wad Cutter it is a Round Nose so the COL is not at all the same. So you are using a meaningless number.

Yes, you can use the powder data for a 158 gr bullet that is fine. Use the start load.

The COL is gonna be a "guesstimate" I have looked for data on that profile and found nothing.

Post a picture of some finished test (no primer.powder) rounds when you can.

The finish round should look kinda like these:

Federal American Eagle Ammo 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose Box
 
Rule3 said:
Your bullet is not a L Semi Wad Cutter it is a Round Nose so the COL is not at all the same. So you are using a meaningless number.

Yes, you can use the powder data for a 158 gr bullet that is fine. Use the start load.

The COL is gonna be a "guesstimate" I have looked for data on that profile and found nothing.

Post a picture of some finished test (no primer.powder) rounds when you can.

The finish round should look kinda like these:

Federal American Eagle Ammo 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose Box
Click to expand...

I know what I have right now is not a LSWC. I went to the Alliant site and it has data for that round. But I prefer plated over lead. Berry's has 158 grain FP rounds. I'll look through my manuals and see if I can find some data on that bullet with red dot.

I have a box of American eagle 130 grain round nose jacketed. Should I measure that to get an estimate. And I feel like an idiot for thinking he oal would be the same for my rn bullet as what the data was for a LSWC. Such an obvious mistake. Don't know what I was thinking
 
Just found a 158 grain LRN bullet listed in the hornady book. Lists a oal of 1.455. But it doesn't give red dot as a powder for it.
 
Most lead bullets have a cannelure that is used for the correct OAL of the bullet.........
but some do not like the last bullet in this picture.....
that is a 158gr LRN.

This is where the maker of the bullet gives the OAL or you need to look up the "Standard" OAL for
this type of bullet in one or more loading manuals.

I load the 158 LRN at 1.55" for my 38 special loads...... but it can be loaded shorter if needed.

t8rf9y.jpg
 
kbm6893 said:
I know what I have right now is not a LSWC. I went to the Alliant site and it has data for that round. But I prefer plated over lead. Berry's has 158 grain FP rounds. I'll look through my manuals and see if I can find some data on that bullet with red dot.

I have a box of American eagle 130 grain round nose jacketed. Should I measure that to get an estimate. And I feel like an idiot for thinking he oal would be the same for my rn bullet as what the data was for a LSWC. Such an obvious mistake. Don't know what I was thinking
Click to expand...

No problem it happens to all of us. It is all confusing in the beginning. It will eventually make sense.

No you can't use the 130 gr bullet as a guide. That is a 20 gr difference from 150, So were is that extra 20 grains? It's in the base of the bullet so you bullet will no doubt be longer than the 130 (assume the same lead alloy)

Anyway, as I suggested seat your bullet to the middle of the top groove and let us know what the COL is for that. No really problem if it is too long, I just want to be sure it's not to short.

Do you have a good scale to weigh powder?? Red Dot is a very fast powder and per ALLiant(on line) the max for a 158 gr is 3.4 grains so it is a small load. So you should start with 90% (10% less)of that or 3.06 grains

You can safely use the powder charge for the next higher weight bullet if you do not have it for the lighter one.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide


For plated bullets use the middle charge of Jacketed bullets

The difficulty here is that darn bullet, for all my lead bullets I do not even measure them. I just seat to the cannelure and done.

For example these:

Missouri Bullet Company
 
Nevada Ed said:
Most lead bullets have a cannelure that is used for the correct OAL of the bullet.........
but some do not like the last bullet in this picture.....
that is a 158gr LRN.

This is where the maker of the bullet gives the OAL or you need to look up the "Standard" OAL for
this type of bullet in one or more loading manuals.

I load the 158 LRN at 1.55" for my 38 special loads...... but it can be loaded shorter if needed.

t8rf9y.jpg
Click to expand...


Thanks Ed

In this picture the last bullet as mentioned, If I did not have data for it, I would seat it just enough to show a hair width of that smooth driving band right before the nose starts to round off. The crimp would then just go over the band a little.
 
I tried to scroll through most of this and after seeing the bullet in question I wanted to ask if there is any lube on it. Liquid alox only needs a thin film to function with zero leading but it does need to be there. I don't cast that exact bullet but it's the same weight in the SWC tuble lube shape. I used Lee's liquid alox for a long time and never had an issue with soft scrap lead cast. Now those were for .38 special and .45 ACP but when I stepped up pressure to 9mm, .40SW, and .357 magnum the leaded like madness down the bore.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
I tried to scroll through most of this and after seeing the bullet in question I wanted to ask if there is any lube on it. Liquid alox only needs a thin film to function with zero leading but it does need to be there. I don't cast that exact bullet but it's the same weight in the SWC tuble lube shape. I used Lee's liquid alox for a long time and never had an issue with soft scrap lead cast. Now those were for .38 special and .45 ACP but when I stepped up pressure to 9mm, .40SW, and .357 magnum the leaded like madness down the bore.
Click to expand...

There's bullet lube on there. Kind of a waxy grease. Should I lube it with something else?
 
kbm

I was going to suggest you go back and restart with a bullet, powder and COL that is in one of the books EXACTLY. That way you'd gain some experience to tackle with the bullet you have now and the plated bullets you want to load. I do not know where to get COL for plated bullets.

BUT, you've got a lot into this bullet and powder already - I wouldn't give up on it!

All that is needed now is a good clear picture of the bullet, then many of the members here could coach you getting it seated to the right depth.

Its just an odd bullet and a tough one to figure out as your first one. I haven't been able to find a picture of the bullet online??
 
forestswin said:
kbm

I was going to suggest you go back and restart with a bullet, powder and COL that is in one of the books EXACTLY. That way you'd gain some experience to tackle with the bullet you have now and the plated bullets you want to load. I do not know where to get COL for plated bullets.

BUT, you've got a lot into this bullet and powder already - I wouldn't give up on it!

All that is needed now is a good clear picture of the bullet, then many of the members here could coach you getting it seated to the right depth.

Its just an odd bullet and a tough one to figure out as your first one. I haven't been able to find a picture of the bullet online??
Click to expand...

Will do tomorrow. Thanks for the encouragement! I might take your advice and get some 158 grain LSWC and follow exactly
 
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If it has a thin coating of waxy grease on them then it's probably alox of some blend of it. Make sure during seating that the lube isn't just being scraped off. A thin coat of alox is all you need but scrape too much off and it's just lead again.
 
Rule3 is the MAN!

Thanks to all who chimed in, but especially to Rule3. I started from scratch resetting ALL my dies from the videos and his written instructions and got a MUCH better result. Here are 6 newly pressed and crimped dummy rounds:



Have a few more questions. First of all, as the bullet gets pressed, the waxy grease forms a ring around the base of the bullet at the crimp. I wiped it off with paper towel. Should I not dot hat and just re-spread it on there?

The seating part doesn't stay 100% constant. One came out 1.778, while the others were right around 1.46. These will be shot in a .357. Is there a way to lock down the seating knob? Doesn't say anything in the manual.

SO I'm gonna be using Red Dot and using data from a 158 grain lswc. Right around 3.0 grains. Is this OK/ I do have a Lyman manual that lists data for a 150 grain bullet which, is what I have, but it's a button nose wadcutter. Has me starting out at just under 3.0 grains.

When these lead bullets are gone, I plan to either go to a 158 grain LSWC, which Red Dot has a recipe for, or a plated bullet in 158 grain as well. Would the data for a round nose 158 grain be all that different then for a LSWC?l

lots more reading to do, but I feel I have turned a corner. Thanks to everyone, especially Rule3
 
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