Fix Your Shield Before It Fails!!!

[xdmshooter59]

I'll second that. I don't know what he's talking about either.

Look thru the entire thread there's plenty of detailed pics.

Posts #32 and 35 show exactly what you need to look at.

Then.... on Posts 40 & 42 I show you a before and after picture once I seated the spring.

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[S&W Rover]

I just checked mine... and it is fine.

It looks to me like the slide and/or the frame on mine will hold the spring in place laterally. It also looks to me like this spring could only work its way out to the left if the slide were off the gun and there is a gap between the frame and the firing block -- which there is not on my relatively new Shield.

• 
  Can this problem occur when the gun is in operation? Does anyone have an example of a stoppage of the pistol while it is being fired because of this problem?

• Is there any evidence that the side of this small spring can impinge upon the slide enough to make it cause the pistol to not cycle?

So what we may have is a problem that affects a certain number of Shields during disassembly and re-assembly and should be detected and mitigated during routine inspection, cleaning, and maintenance of the pistol -- not something that affects firing of the pistol or makes it unreliable as a self-defense weapon.

 

[Nonuthin]

I just checked mine... and it is fine.

It looks to me like the slide and/or the frame on mine will hold the spring in place laterally. It also looks to me like this spring could only work its way out to the left if the slide were off the gun and there is a gap between the frame and the firing block -- which there is not on my relatively new Shield.

• 
  Can this problem occur when the gun is in operation? Does anyone have an example of a stoppage of the pistol while it is being fired because of this problem?

• Is there any evidence that the side of this small spring can impinge upon the slide enough to make it cause the pistol to not cycle?

So what we may have is a problem that affects a certain number of Shields during disassembly and re-assembly and should be detected and mitigated during routine inspection, cleaning, and maintenance of the pistol -- not something that affects firing of the pistol or makes it unreliable as a self-defense weapon.

If you had read this entire thread and Googled you'd have seen that there are examples of failures during firing. I pointed out that my friend's new 9mm Shield (dated June, 2017) had failed during firing after approximately 300 rounds. The spring had popped completely out of its groove and caused stovepipes and failures to return to battery because it was "impinging" on the slide sufficiently to restrict its movement. So, it isn't just a problem affecting disassembly but, in fact, is a problem "that affects firing of the pistol or makes it unreliable as a self-defense weapon."

This is not just some minor problem that may cause disassembly difficulty as you have stated.

 

[S&W Rover]

If you had read this entire thread and Googled you'd have seen that there are examples of failures during firing. I pointed out that my friend's new 9mm Shield (dated June, 2017) had failed during firing after approximately 300 rounds. The spring had popped completely out of its groove and caused stovepipes and failures to return to battery because it was "impinging" on the slide sufficiently to restrict its movement. So, it isn't just a problem affecting disassembly but, in fact, is a problem "that affects firing of the pistol or makes it unreliable as a self-defense weapon."

This is not just some minor problem that may cause disassembly difficulty as you have stated.

The recent Saga of the Sig P320 -- where a renowned gun expert stated that the problem could not happen, although it was subsequently proven that it did happen -- should be warning enough for anyone who says something "can't happen." What I am saying is that on mine, there is no room between the block and the frame for the spring to escape and pop up. So I am asking -- not how many people have had FTFs or FTEs, which can have many causes -- but how many people have had the spring pop out during firing and cause the gun to become inoperable?

 

[Nonuthin]

The recent Saga of the Sig P320 -- where a renowned gun expert stated that the problem could not happen, although it was subsequently proven that it did happen -- should be warning enough for anyone who says something "can't happen." What I am saying is that on mine, there is no room between the block and the frame for the spring to escape and pop up. So I am asking -- not how many people have had FTFs or FTEs, which can have many causes -- but how many people have had the spring pop out during firing and cause the gun to become inoperable?

I understand what you are asking but, you must realize that failures during firing, as in my example above, are seldom diagnosed accurately at the range. It's only later, when the gun is broken down and examined carefully that a cause may be identified. In my example, as in other related examples, when the shooter goes to disassemble his Shield, which popped its slide lock spring, and he can't remove the slide because the spring prevents it (a rather common occurrence), it's at that point that he realizes that the failures to eject or feed properly were most likely the result of the slide lock spring impinging on the slide, causing the malfunctions. Especially since the Shield functioned flawlessly before the spring popped and also functioned flawlessly after the spring was properly reseated and/or repaired.
The important issue is not how many malfunctions have occurred and have been reported as having been caused by the popped spring but, that it HAS happened and can happen DURING FIRING.
Is the Shield undependable and unsuitable for personal defensive carry?
In my opinion and personal experience, a properly seated slide lock spring does not discourage me from carrying my Shield, based on the fact that it is reliable in all other aspects of operation.

 

[wormraper]

lol, it's not a "common occurrence". there's a VERY small handful of people that have had spring related slide issues.

 

[akdude]

The Mag spring issue is 10X Worse!

 

[xdmshooter59]

lol, it's not a "common occurrence". there's a VERY small handful of people that have had spring related slide issues.

And we know this how?

 

[wormraper]

And we know this how?

if it was common forums would be flooded with them. like everything it's a matter of percentages and probabilities and right now there have been a small handful of reports. Every gun has some problem somewhere with a certain percentage of the product total.

 

[xdmshooter59]

if it was common forums would be flooded with them. like everything it's a matter of percentages and probabilities and right now there have been a small handful of reports. Every gun has some problem somewhere with a certain percentage of the product total.

I'm not saying your wrong, your probably right, however, basing the percentage of failures/issues on how many complaints on a forum is pure speculation. Of the several million Shields in use how many owners of those Shields do you think actually participate on forums, a small percentage I would guess. Forums are not everyone's forte.



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[akdude]

If U do a Goggle search on the Shield mag Spring issue U will find pages on this issue going back to the Shield introduction and S&W cant/wont fix it!

 

[wormraper]

I'm not saying your wrong, your probably right, however, basing the percentage of failures/issues on how many complaints on a forum is pure speculation. Of the several million Shields in use how many owners of those Shields do you think actually participate on forums, a small percentage I would guess. Forums are not everyone's forte.



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true, but a forum is like a poll. you take a subsection of the market and apply the failure to not failure rate and just multiply the number on here to equal the number in the total market. It's a strong indicator as a decent guesstimate, otherwise we would just say it's a "I don't know!" situation and we could let our imaginations run wild.
I'm not bashing the OP... it's a handy little trick and something to keep an eye out for in random maintenance, but the title is a BIT click baity that makes it sound like "if you don't do this one thing your shield WILL fail!!!!!". If we see a sh!t load of posts start to come in that say the same thing and find out it's the spring, then I'd worry. Otherwise I'd just keep it as "heh, I'll glance down there and see how it's doing just in case some times" scenario

 

[wormraper]

If U do a Goggle search on the Shield mag Spring issue U will find pages on this issue going back to the Shield introduction and S&W cant/wont fix it!

and if I google "brass to the face", "gun exploding", etc etc you can find pages on it too. The spring failure is not that common, but it is more common than some of the others, I'll give you that. but if you look at the VAAAAAAAAAAAAST majority that post online, you won't see it. Remember the "RSA failures!!!" from a few years back? It was mostly just a couple of failures that people parroted until they created a panic and there was a run on RSAs for shields because of that. or a couple people who used reloaded ammo started posting pics of "blown up shields" and suddenly everyone on here started worrying about their shield blowing up from firing out of battery. It happens, but is usually fairly rare and far between when you see the vast majority of posts.

if people are super paranoid about their springs, just replace your carry mags with wolf springs for peace of mind. I can't tell you the number of OEM springs I've replaced in various guns over the years because the mfger used cheaper mass produced, low cost springs. I buy Rock Island 1911s due to them being a magnificent value for what they are. However, RIA guns are also known to have weak recoil and and firing pin springs. So whenever I pick one up, the first thing I do is change out those two springs. The same thing for N-Pap and WASR 10 AK's.. their OEM recoil springs are garbage, so I change them out for an comblock surplus spring or an ALG ACT extra power spring the minute I buy them. Same can be said for a myriad of other guns and magazines (ACT 1911 mags are usually undersprung too. )

 

[akdude]

I replaced all my Shield mag springs with Wolff and have enough o also change the springs in Rebate mags!

 

[xdmshooter59]

"if you don't do this one thing your shield WILL fail!!!!!". If we see a sh!t load of posts start to come in that say the same thing and find out it's the spring, then I'd worry. Otherwise I'd just keep it as "heh, I'll glance down there and see how it's doing just in case some times" scenario

We've seen a couple threads started where someone's spring came out and failure incurred. IN THIS particular thread we've had several people report that the spring was not fully seated (I was one of those) but we're not having issues. So far the OP was the only one who reported a failure.

So.. in my own case, I fully seated the spring and I'm moving on. If I find it repeatedly starting to loosen or come out I will send it in to S&W.


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[CB3]

I should clarify my above posts...
Most Shield slide lock springs NEVER pop all the way out of their grooves.
My intent was to post a fix for a POSSIBLE problem that crops up from time-to-time. NONE of my Shields has popped a spring...YET.
But, I feel more confident that they won't now that I fully set their springs all the way into their grooves.
Best Regards.

OP’s follow up post. (#8)

 

[RGVshooter]

From 2014-2016 I've used my M&P shield 9 in local IDPA matches and have well over 9k rounds fired thru it. I've never had a single issue with the pistol nor have I heard of such a issue. All I've done was replace the RSA & mag springs and cleaned it after every shoot.

 

[Nonuthin]

lol, it's not a "common occurrence". there's a VERY small handful of people that have had spring related slide issues.

Hey, Worm Raper (name brings up a really nice visual), please re-read what I posted:

"In my example, as in other related examples, when the shooter goes to disassemble his Shield, which popped its slide lock spring, and he can't remove the slide because the spring prevents it (a rather common occurrence), it's at that point that he realizes that the failures to eject or feed properly were most likely the result of the slide lock spring impinging on the slide, causing the malfunctions."

The translation for the reading-challenged is: when the spring pops, it is a common occurrence for the spring to prevent slide removal.

I apologize for writing so clearly and, thereby, causing some to be confused.

In summary, I'm done with this thread. It's not my thread, it's the forum's thread.
I had hoped it would be a contribution to all Shield owners to perform a very simple fix to prevent a possible serious future failure.
Sorry to have offended the S&W Kool-Aid drinkers; the word-parsers; the politically-correct thread critics; the reading-challenged; and the I-never-had-a-problem-with-mine denial crowd.
I sincerely do hope that no Shield owner has to contend with a popped slide lock spring problem.
Best Regards!

 

[CB3]

true, but a forum is like a poll. you take a subsection of the market and apply the failure to not failure rate and just multiply the number on here to equal the number in the total market. It's a strong indicator as a decent guesstimate, otherwise we would just say it's a "I don't know!" situation and we could let our imaginations run wild.

Posts on a forum have no statistical predictability whatsoever. There is no base control. Posts are skewed toward problems by the very nature of people seeking help. The number of people posting on a particular problem, even in multiple threads over time, compared to the total number of units in the market is infinitesimally small.

I enjoy gun forums for identification of potential problems and their suggested fixes. I allot very little significance to the quality of a gun based on the opinions and experiences of a very few, often unqualified, people. Much of the time the problems are not described accurately, and often they are caused by ignorance or operator error. Such information is completely unscientific and uncontrolled. I still use it, but with a shaker of salt sitting next to my work.

In this case, NoN posted a helpful maintenance tip that relates to a small percentage of the total number of Shields sold, with a significantly smaller percentage of units actually experiencing a functional problem caused because of the slide lock lever return spring. As I posted before, I believe this is good info explained in an OVERLY DRAMATIC FASHION !!! (See what I did there?)

 

[Printrep]

Just checked both mine:

-Manufactured 04-04-2017, 430 rounds, Spring not fully seated but not showing signs of rubbing against slide. Seated spring flush.

-Manufactured 05-02-2017, 430 rounds, Spring seated fully.