Flash hider removal

[rimfire22]

I'm having a difficult time removing the flash hider. I clamped the barrel down in my vise using the Tacticool22 barrel vise jaws, applied a few drops of liquid wrench to the FH threads (not the threads directly of course, but on the crush washer), and heated the FH up using a heat gun.

But when I turn the FH counterclockwise, the barrel and upper turn with it (and I stop applying pressure the moment I see this movement). Just how tight is it safe to clamp the barrel? I obviously don't want to damage the barrel.

I already have a bit of aluminum sheen on the barrel from the vise jaws. I assume that will rub out with some oil, or maybe a brass brush and some oil?

Should I be giving the wrench a sharp tap with a hammer (a la an impact driver) rather than trying to apply steady pressure?

 

[Majorlk]

If the barrel turns, the vice jaws are not tight enough. Also, instead of applying constant pressure to the FH, put the wrench on the flats and rap the end of the wrench with a short length of 2x4.

 

[97catintenn]

Mine was on crazy tight too. When my barrel moved it lost some of the finish on the barrel. Oh, well...it did finally come loose.

 

[rimfire22]

If the barrel turns, the vice jaws are not tight enough. Also, instead of applying constant pressure to the FH, put the wrench on the flats and rap the end of the wrench with a short length of 2x4.

I'll crank the vise down on the barrel some more. I suppose the aluminum vise jaws will deform before the barrel is damaged by the pressure from the vise?

Mine was on crazy tight too. When my barrel moved it lost some of the finish on the barrel. Oh, well...it did finally come loose.

I wonder if it's the barrel finish or aluminum from the vise jaws.

I guess this is S&W's way of telling us they'd rather we didn't modify the 15-22.

 

[Rundover]

Does the factory use Locktight on the flash hider?

 

[micocyco]

Does the factory use Locktight on the flash hider?

That's a good question & if they do then how does knowing it help ?
I can see wanting to change mine at some point . wonder what a gun smith would charge ?

 

[97catintenn]

I didn't notice any locktight when I removed mined. It was just torqued.

rimfire, I had rags on my keeping my jaws off the barrel so Im pretty sure it removed the finished.

 

[Majorlk]

That's a good question & if they do then how does knowing it help ?
I can see wanting to change mine at some point . wonder what a gun smith would charge ?

MAKE SURE THE GUNSMITH KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH A 15-22. THE VAST MAJORITY DON'T, AND WILL JUST CLAMP THE RECEIVER IN A VICE, THEREBY DESTROYING IT WHEN THE BARREL ROTATES!!!!

Yes, I am shouting because there are multiple stories in the forum of ignorant gunsmiths and users doing exactly that!

 

[Majorlk]

I'll crank the vise down on the barrel some more. I suppose the aluminum vise jaws will deform before the barrel is damaged by the pressure from the vise?

I wonder if it's the barrel finish or aluminum from the vise jaws.

I guess this is S&W's way of telling us they'd rather we didn't modify the 15-22.

1 - you are not going to deform the barrel
2 - the aluminum will rub of onto the barrel and it can be removed.
3 - that is an invalid assumption.

there are a couple of dozen threads on this very subject. Do a search and read some of them.

 

[Brett248Vista]

MAKE SURE THE GUNSMITH KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH A 15-22. THE VAST MAJORITY DON'T, AND WILL JUST CLAMP THE RECEIVER IN A VICE, THEREBY DESTROYING IT WHEN THE BARREL ROTATES!!!!

Yes, I am shouting because there are multiple stories in the forum of ignorant gunsmiths and users doing exactly that!

HEY..... I wasn't ignorant when I did it! I knew it could happen! I just didn't realize it took so little pressure!

 

[Capt_Destro]

1 - you are not going to deform the barrel
2 - the aluminum will rub of onto the barrel and it can be removed.
3 - that is an invalid assumption.

there are a couple of dozen threads on this very subject. Do a search and read some of them.

The Aluminum marks come off easily with a rough sponge/nylon and brass brushes/terry cloth and some oil.

The clamps made it effortless.

 

[Allen_396]

I removed and reinstalled my flash hider in order to put on an A2-style front sight. I took a couple of pieces of wood, made a sandwich with my barrel, and clamped it tight into the vise. Then put a wrench on the flash hider, whacked the wrench with a hammer, and popped it loose. No trouble at all. Installed the A2 front sight, and then just reinstalled the flash hider and torqued it back down.

 

[Que B&BR]

MAKE SURE THE GUNSMITH KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH A 15-22. THE VAST MAJORITY DON'T, AND WILL JUST CLAMP THE RECEIVER IN A VICE, THEREBY DESTROYING IT WHEN THE BARREL ROTATES!!!!

Yes, I am shouting because there are multiple stories in the forum of ignorant gunsmiths and users doing exactly that!

I want a couple of the barrels w/ejector from these. anyone know where they can be had?

 

[Majorlk]

I want a couple of the barrels w/ejector from these. anyone know where they can be had?

S&W does the repairs and it's highly unlikely they will sell either the barrels or uppers from the repairs.

 

[tacticool22]

I don't understand why some of the flash hiders are so tight. A crush washer provides only around 20 Ft. Lbs of torque.
If the barrel starts to turn, you vise is not tight enough.
If a little aluminum transfers, use some cold blue paste. It will eat the aluminum.
Never ever, ever, hold the upper to tighten or loosen the flash hider, muzzle brake, barrel nut or hand guard converter nut.

 

[Majorlk]

FWIW, S&W says they do not use LocTite on the threaded barrels.

 

[telero]

FWIW, S&W says they do not use LocTite on the threaded barrels.

So maybe they use some other brand of adhesive? Whatever they are doing, it seems like there are enough people having problems with taking off the flash hider that they should reevaluate their assembly process.

 

[JeffDeMello]

So maybe they use some other brand of adhesive? Whatever they are doing, it seems like there are enough people having problems with taking off the flash hider that they should reevaluate their assembly process.

Then you guys would cry about the flash hider coming loose all the time

 

[Kayback]

Then you guys would cry about the flash hider coming loose all the time

I just Locktighted mine on. Decided a QD suppressor was nicer than the screw on one I bought.

KBK

 

[telero]

Then you guys would cry about the flash hider coming loose all the time

Or we'd let the crush washer do it's job

 

[yugowego]

I must of lucked out... Mine wasnt on very tight at all... It was about as normal as my ARs.

 

[roadkill45]

i've always used wood blocks in the vice, never had a problem getting any type end attachment off. although before even trying i heat the end up with torch just in case any locking agent was used.

once off, i always put some anti seize on the threads before putting on a can or other FH, then 1/4 turn past hand tight. never had one come loose on me yet.
matter of fact i think the anti seize evaporates after the barrel gets hot say in a mag dump and it kinda 'welds' it to the barrel, plus the barrel swells when hot due to heat expansion. i had one AR barrel that i put in the freezer for a couple hours and it came off almost by hand due to the steel being cold and releasing some of it's hold on the threads.

if i use any locking compound it is almost exclusively clear nail polish. just enough hold but not so much as to take superman to get it off again. in the field i have a 1/2" open end wrench that i have sawed in a little more than half in two and it goes in the pistol grips of my AR's. i can change devices very easy w/o a vice since they are only a little more than hand tight (if not dedicated and using the nail polish).

 

[rimfire22]

I cranked down on the vise a bit more, used a heat gun to warm up the flash hider and with a good tap to the wrench with a hammer, the flash hider broke free.

The Aluminum marks come off easily with a rough sponge/nylon and brass brushes/terry cloth and some oil.

Nylon brush wasn't enough, but a brass brush and some oil took care of it.

 

[rimfire22]

Couple of follow-up questions:
1. When tightening the T22 handguard converter, and then, the barrel nut wrench, you should be holding the barrel, not the upper, correct? Or is there no risk of damaging the upper by holding it for these tightening tasks?

2. Once a longer handguard is installed, how do you tighten and subsequently loosen (if you needed to) the flash hider? There isn't enough room to get vise jaws on the barrel. I suppose a pair of pliers and some inner tube on the exposed length of barrel will let you achieve sufficient torque to keep the FH in place and loosen it in the future. Any other suggestions with respect to this?

 

[Hobie1]

I'd guess using nylon jawed plumbers pliers might work but you absolutely cannot torque the upper. Replacement of said upper will follow. As stated earlier, let the crush washer do it's job and you don't to need to put a lot of torque on the F/H.

Hobie

 

[tacticool22]

Couple of follow-up questions:
1. When tightening the T22 handguard converter, and then, the barrel nut wrench, you should be holding the barrel, not the upper, correct? Or is there no risk of damaging the upper by holding it for these tightening tasks?

2. Once a longer handguard is installed, how do you tighten and subsequently loosen (if you needed to) the flash hider? There isn't enough room to get vise jaws on the barrel. I suppose a pair of pliers and some inner tube will let you achieve sufficient torque to keep the FH in place and loosen it in the future. Any other suggestions with respect to this?

1) Yes, always hold onto the barrel whenever possible when you tighten the factory barrel nut, my converter or a FH/MB.

2) After the adapter nut is torqued the free float hand guard can be tightened with the barrel in the vise jaws, or if you hold the upper and lower put together (insert safety stuff here) without too much worry about the barrel turning in the upper. You would have to torque the hand guard more than you torqued the converter to start any kind of bad spin.

There are some wrenches that have a rubber strap that work very well.

 

[RV4driver]

After reading these horror stories about not being able to take off the FH, I attacked mine with some trepidation. It practically fell off. Actually, I was disappointed! I put my flash-hider/suppressor QD on, and used some "blue-pen" on the aluminum marks on the barrel.

Apparently, there is some variation...to say the least, on the amount of torque on that flash hider.

 

[Brett248Vista]

Just to take a little time to explain why you do not hold a 15-22 by the upper to do any of this type of work. On the 15-22 unlike an AR, the barrel is inserted through the upper receiver from the backside, the nut then threads onto the barrel from the front (as normal) but it actually pulls the barrel and sandwiches it between the nut and the upper receiver. Inside the upper receiver there is a steel insert that takes all the squeezing pressure. But the ONLY thing that stops the barrel from turning in the upper are a pair of small ears on the chamber block, these ears engage plastic slots in the upper (the same slots that the bolt rails interface).

If you attempt to tighten things or loosen things using the receiver and not holding the barrel it can and will spin inside the upper. If the rifle is fully assembled when this happens it will also bend the bolt rails. If the rifle is not assembled it will gouge out the plastic that the ears align into.

Hope that helps explain the "why".

 

[ericlw]

and to think a few weeks ago i was insulted by several people on here for having to cut the flash hider off my mine as if i was incompetent fool.

 

[rimfire22]

Just to take a little time to explain why you do not hold a 15-22 by the upper to do any of this type of work. On the 15-22 unlike an AR, the barrel is inserted through the upper receiver from the backside, the nut then threads onto the barrel from the front (as normal) but it actually pulls the barrel and sandwiches it between the nut and the upper receiver. Inside the upper receiver there is a steel insert that takes all the squeezing pressure. But the ONLY thing that stops the barrel from turning in the upper are a pair of small ears on the chamber block, these ears engage plastic slots in the upper (the same slots that the bolt rails interface).

If you attempt to tighten things or loosen things using the receiver and not holding the barrel it can and will spin inside the upper. If the rifle is fully assembled when this happens it will also bend the bolt rails. If the rifle is not assembled it will gouge out the plastic that the ears align into.

Hope that helps explain the "why".

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Fortunately, if the bolt isn't in the upper, it sounds like the only thing that will get damaged is the upper, and per your parts list, that can be replaced for $20 plus shipping, so definitely not the end of the world.