Force-on-force training?

[fatcat3]

E. All of the above.
I don't train formally so much anymore, guess I'll have to handle whatever comes my way, or not. IDPA, PPC, etc. some. Force on force A lot, flat range paper targets, oh my aching word yes. Now my training consists of strolling through my wood lot drawing and taking out exceptionally vicious looking pinecones, dirt clods, and what not. Sitting on the front porch having a pipe maybe coffee and decide to ring the gong hanging down in the trees.

 

[Dvus]

I started with paper targets and "bad guy" cans at the age of 9. Through my 20s, 30s and 40s I had almost weekly FoF practice or milsim events in both squad based and individual encounters both indoors and outdoors. I quickly learned the painful difference between cover and concealment. I also learned how to use angles and terrain to your advantage and when you want to keep the sun at your back and when you want it in front of you. I learned how to make low and no light your friend. Now that I'm older, I still participate in USPSA and 3 gun to keep in practice and I'm still learning. I believe that is the most important part, to continue learning, because if you are not learning you are getting stale.

 

[rockquarry]

Simple explanation for "force on force"? I've never seen the term prior to this thread. Thanks-

 

[Dvus]

Simple explanation for "force on force"? I've never seen the term prior to this thread. Thanks-

Live practice against an opposing force using training weapons of some kind. It can be one on one, group on group or group on one. I always preferred to be the "one."

 

[rockquarry]

Live practice against an opposing force using training weapons of some kind. It can be one on one, group on group or group on one. I always preferred to be the "one."

Thank you, Dvus.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

52 years ago in the police academy both a lot of range under time including reloads out to 50 yards. A stress shoot on the range after running a half a mile in soft sand. And the shoot house with primed .38's firing wax bullets.

12 years on the streets in a bad city. Then my dream assignment, sent to the FBI firearms instructors school. Even with years on the department pistol team, this was where I really learned to shoot a revolver.

Another 18 years teaching in the academy, 16 with a Rangemaster certification. With all that I prefer revolvers. It's my happy place. Yes I do on occasion carry a bottom feeder and there's a round in the chamber. But quite frankly I don't really like striker fired weapons.

Retired now for 22 years I carry pretty much everyday. And I practice twice a week spring to fall and every two weeks in the winter. I've never felt under gunned with a 5 shot J frame. It's very familiar. It's attached to my hip.

 

[rockquarry]

52 years ago in the police academy both a lot of range under time including reloads out to 50 yards. A stress shoot on the range after running a half a mile in soft sand. And the shoot house with primed .38's firing wax bullets.

12 years on the streets in a bad city. Then my dream assignment, sent to the FBI firearms instructors school. Even with years on the department pistol team, this was where I really learned to shoot a revolver.

Another 18 years teaching in the academy, 16 with a Rangemaster certification. With all that I prefer revolvers. It's my happy place. Yes I do on occasion carry a bottom feeder and there's a round in the chamber. But quite frankly I don't really like striker fired weapons.

Retired now for 22 years I carry pretty much everyday. And I practice twice a week spring to fall and every two weeks in the winter. I've never felt under gunned with a 5 shot J frame. It's very familiar. It's attached to my hip.

A well said pure post, free of gadgets and huge magazines.

 

[38magnum]

just walk down a street in the bad part of your local city with a rolex, youll get your live training..

But seriously, are you trying to learn how to be used to being shot AT or trying to teach yourself its ok to shoot someone trying to kill you?

If you are merely trying to learn how to handle being shot at, go out on public land the next time your states squirrel or bird or deer season starts. Youll get your trainig.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

FWIW...I've never taken a formal class for several reasons, not the least of which is expense. I did, however, have an experience with a couple of "professional trainers" that has had substantial influence on my decision. It was at a training session for Gander Mountain, where I worked at the time, an annual event held at a shooting range, where we were brought up to speed by manufacturers reps on everything new for the year. A misunderstanding about the nature of Gander's "Firearm Training" ended up with one manufacturer sending actual shooting trainers. The result was about an hour of salesmen being lectured to by guys who spent their time telling "amateurs" that they don't know how to shoot. At one point, they mocked Weaver-stance shooters as suicidal, explaining that it opened up your side to adversary fire, where body armor is weakest. I asked if I could shoot Weaver if I didn't own body armor, and they got downright pissed at me. I understand these guys were not representative of the entire body of pro trainers out there, but it was not a huge incentive to go forth and spend my money on training.

I found this post disturbing. I wonder what was the background of these "shooting trainers"? They sound kind of NRA to me.

One of the first things you learn in the police academy the "interview stance". You blade your body weak side toward the person your interviewing with the weapon as far out of their reach as possible. If things go bad a weak hand jab to their face and you protect or draw your gun as needed.

That interview stance is also based on a basic boxing foot position, balance is key. All of this is a transition to Weaver or modified Weaver shooting position. With that Weaver foot work you can move forward, backwards, sideways or down to a kneeling position while still maintaining a body rotation capability for engaging multiple targets.

This movement is taught in all of the advanced pistol combat training that I am aware of. That movement can also help break up target fixation ie. tunnel vision.

Yes that body blade position exposes the slight gap between body armor panels. But balanced movement beats being a snowman target. YMMV.

 

[chief38]

I have trained and competed on many combat courses of fire, in shoot houses and simulators using live ammo and of course on all types of paper and steel targets. Shooting in many styles of competition over the years has also helped quite a bit.

 

[Denverd0n]

I'm not sure what point is being made about force on force training v chambered round.

I suspect that the point is, if you have had F-on-F training then you know that there is absolutely NO WAY that you are going to get your gun out, rack the slide, and fire before you have already been hit multiple times by the "bad guy." Hence, those who carry with an empty chamber have almost certainly never had that sort of quasi-realistic training, nor been in a real gunfight where they were taking incoming fire.

 

[Puller]

I like doing paintball.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I didn't respond to the poll because the methods I use(d) weren't listed.

I kind of like that.

My reply was based on my former cowboy action shooting skills, it is kinda sorta combat shooting. Moreover, I have a lesson in the back of my head that I never forgot:

"What is the code of the bayonet fighter?!?!"

"KILL, Drill Sergeant!"

Same for a gunfighter; you have to be aware of your surroundings and you have to be ruthless if you draw your weapon.

And I practice point shooting routinely. The targets might be paper or steel but I always pretend there is a goblin in front of me.

 

[Donn]

Said it here & elsewhere, training and practice are a good thing. The great unknown is how you'll react in a stress situation, and you won't know till you've been in one. Till the excrement gets real, (God Forbid), it's all if, what, maybe.