Friend's .38M&P Mod of 1905

[Aggie Bill]

Greetings,
I am new to the sight and make my home in San Angelo, TX. I consider myself as a very amateur gunsmith and enjoy minor work on guns I'm familiar with.
A friend brought me a S&W 38 special he wanted info on. It is SN 120XXX, 4" barrel, 38 S&W Special ctg., hand ejector fixed sights, 5 screws and strain screw.
From my Blue Book it appears to be an S&W Model 1905 - 1st Change mfg. from 1906-1909. It had some light surface rust (no pitting) from being kept in a holster !!!!! which wiped of with a little Kroil oil. The bluing in those spots is gone.
A concern I have is should I have these spots reblued. I know in my collector guns (safe queens) I do not mess with them other than a light oil wipe occasionally.
I am really enjoying this site and am looking for any advice, confirmation, or clarifications.
Thanks,
Aggie Bill

 

[rct269]

Should you HAVE them re-blued? No. The cost would be prohibitive (considering the value of the gun).

Should YOU attempt to touch up the bad spots? Why not? The value of the gun (little to nothing now) will remain unchanged, and I'll bet the last spot you "fix" will be a lot better than the first one. So you'll be a little bit older and a lot wiser. You might even decide to go back to the first spots and start over----just to see how much better you can get!

And if/when you get a lot better, it just might come in handy some day. And if you really want an education, do each spot with a different product.

Ralph Tremaine

And when the instructions tell you to use steel wool, use bronze wool instead. It will take a little longer, but the blending effect is sometimes almost magical!!

 

[tlay]

If you decide to touch up the bluing I suggest a product called Brownells Oxpho bluing. It works pretty good for touch-up work and is easy to do.

 

[Aggie Bill]

Where do you get the info that gun is of little or no value? From what I see the gun in 90% condition is worth $1050 or is the Blue Book wrong? Thanks for your reply.
Aggie Bill

 

[DWalt]

That one likely shipped in 1908, but possibly 1909. It would be called a .38 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, (likely) Second Change. I say"likely" because the SN cutoff given for the change from first to second change is 120000. The grips are correct for this period. I wouldn't say the value is little or nothing. It looks to be in generally good condition (assuming it has not been re-blued at some time, which it does not appear to be). Therefore, I do not believe there would be much of a problem is selling it for $300-$400, and possibly a little more, in a private sale. I wouldn't do anything more to it. Remember, the steel in these revolvers was not heat treated until after WWI, so only standard velocity lead bullet loads should ever be used in it.

 

[DWalt]

Where do you get the info that gun is of little or no value? From what I see the gun in 90% condition is worth $1050 or is the Blue Book wrong? Thanks for your reply.
Aggie Bill

The Blue Book is overly optimistic on valuing these. The same revolver in absolutely pristine condition might bring close to $1000 in a private sale to the right collector who needs one of that period to fill out his collection. That one is pretty good, but not pristine. That last few percentage points of condition makes a huge difference in value.

 

[rct269]

The Blue Book is overly optimistic on valuing these. The same revolver in absolutely pristine condition might bring close to $1000 in a private sale to the right collector who needs one of that period to fill out his collection. That one is pretty good, but not pristine. That last few percentage points of condition makes a huge difference in value.

What he said----------------plus

The real bottom line is there are different strokes for different folks. If/When I come across a gun I need/want, I buy it. The price I pay, while not entirely immaterial, does not come from any book. I have found such books are similar to fishing tackle----which most folks will tell you is made to catch fish. I will tell you it is made to sell to fishermen. So it is with many/most such books----and especially the Blue Book. If one were to ponder, for maybe thirty seconds, the STAGGERING amount of research required to assemble a definitive price guide for such a diverse product as firearms, one would/should quickly come to the realization such research is "dry-labed". Then one would/should focus on their own judgement.

If/when you/anybody wants to acquire the knowledge necessary to develop good judgement, let me suggest you gather the "prices realized" data from as many auctions/auction houses as you can get your grubby little paws on. I have been getting my grubby little paws on such data for the past thirty years---and then some. And that said it will behoove one to realize last week's knowledge has little value compared to yesterday's!

And so--------when was your Blue Book published? Next, when was the data gathered? And assuming for the moment the data wasn't gathered, what was the factor used to update old values to new/current values? And was the same factor used for pristine Registered Magnums as for decrepit "beaters"? Please note these are all rhetorical questions----please.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[DWalt]

Several months ago, I paid probably $200 more than I logically should have for a revolver (not a S&W, the other brand), mainly because I had coveted one for years, and this was the first one I had seen for years that was in excellent original condition. But in this case, I was the "right" buyer who wanted it to fill a "perceived" hole, and could afford the premium it took to get it. Unfortunately the seller was just as aware of what he had as I was, and what I paid for it was the best deal that I could negotiate. The price agreed upon had nothing whatsoever to do with what any price guide said it was worth. The option was to not buy it, but I didn't know when another one in like condition would show up again - if ever. I'm hopeful that the old saying "You didn't pay too much, you just bought too early" applies, and that a year from now, I can get my money back if I decide to sell it.

 

[tlay]

And as we all know, you never pay too much, you just might pay too early!

 

[Aggie Bill]

Thank you all for your good info. I really hadn't planned on buying this revolver because I didn't think he wanted to sell it. It had been his wife's uncles gun which he carried when he was a railroad detective in Wyoming. I was surprised when he said would sell it and although I am not a big revolver fan I do like older guns and this one is very nice so I will make him an offer. Thanks again for your all your thoughts.
Aggie Bill

 

[DWalt]

Go for it. It's probably as good as it ever was, and as good as most revolvers made today. The only limitation is the soft steel from which it's made, but with standard ammunition, that's not a problem. The old K-frames are addictive, and they are sort of like peanuts - you can't stop at one. I make it to San Angelo a few times a year, most recently a couple of weeks ago. Will probably be making the trip more frequently in the near future - work at Goodfellow coming up.

 

[Old TexMex]

Bill, is that one marked with any railroad stampings?

 

[Old TexMex]

What he said----------------plus

The real bottom line is there are different strokes for different folks. If/When I come across a gun I need/want, I buy it. The price I pay, while not entirely immaterial, does not come from any book. I have found such books are similar to fishing tackle----which most folks will tell you is made to catch fish. I will tell you it is made to sell to fishermen. So it is with many/most such books----and especially the Blue Book. If one were to ponder, for maybe thirty seconds, the STAGGERING amount of research required to assemble a definitive price guide for such a diverse product as firearms, one would/should quickly come to the realization such research is "dry-labed". Then one would/should focus on their own judgement.

If/when you/anybody wants to acquire the knowledge necessary to develop good judgement, let me suggest you gather the "prices realized" data from as many auctions/auction houses as you can get your grubby little paws on. I have been getting my grubby little paws on such data for the past thirty years---and then some. And that said it will behoove one to realize last week's knowledge has little value compared to yesterday's!

And so--------when was your Blue Book published? Next, when was the data gathered? And assuming for the moment the data wasn't gathered, what was the factor used to update old values to new/current values? And was the same factor used for pristine Registered Magnums as for decrepit "beaters"? Please note these are all rhetorical questions----please.

Ralph Tremaine

I'd just add: like anything that involves a mixture of money and love, there is a price to be paid for wisdom.

 

[Aggie Bill]

DWalt
Thanks for the info. Spent many years at Goodfellow retired and stayed in San Angelo. When you come this way let me know at [email protected].
Aggie Bill

 

[Aggie Bill]

OldTexMex
No markings that I can see.

 

[gaucho1]

Go for it. It's probably as good as it ever was, and as good as most revolvers made today. The only limitation is the soft steel from which it's made, but with standard ammunition, that's not a problem. The old K-frames are addictive, and they are sort of like peanuts - you can't stop at one. I make it to San Angelo a few times a year, most recently a couple of weeks ago. Will probably be making the trip more frequently in the near future - work at Goodfellow coming up.

Addictive............Yea......recent purchases........

 

[JP@AK]

It is SN 120XXX

I can tell you a Model of 1905 with a serial number 10,000 lower than yours letters to April, 1908. So a fair guess would probably put yours within the same year, maybe early 1909.