Gander Mtn. screws up royally

[USAF385]

Over the weekend my girlfriend went to Gander Mountain with her brother.. a Corporal in the USMC just back from Afghanistan. He saw a used AR-15 and wanted to pick it up. He didn't have his PA license so no dice (he had his military ID and NC ID). My girlfriend couldn't buy it because the lad behind the counter wouldn't have it and instead tried to lecture them about straw purchases. He was being very rude and acting like an overall.. poopy face. (Trying to keep this family friendly! ) Of course they didn't stand around and let him ramble. I mean.. sure he's doing his job... and we all know servicemen shouldn't be allowed guns.

Anyway.. they didn't get the gun. Later that day though their father and I went to Gander Mountain so he could buy it for his son. Which he did. It didn't have the rear sight, so he got them to throw in some scope mounts for free. Filled out the form, got the gun and went home.

The next day, the lad behind the counter called my girlfriend's dad. (I say lad, he's probably the same age as me, but once someone in a store like Gander Mtn. goes on a power trip with an attitude, they lose my respect and become "lad".) When he filled out the paper work, he only filled out the long gun form. I guess for AR-15 style rifles and pistol grip shotguns you need to fill out that AND the handgun form. The lad only had him fill out the former, so was all panicy asking him to come and fill out the other form. "You got to fill this out ASAP or we can get in trouble with the feds!!"

My GFs dad WILL go fill out the form.. eventually. But I think it's a good thing to let the lad sweat it out for a few days and hope he doesn't get in trouble. Perhaps this is what he needs in order to remember to do his job properly.

Nothing like a little karma. My guess is if he didn't act like such a .... poop head... to my GF and her brother, he would have remembered to do the sale properly.

 

[mississippi revolverman]

Love it. Old Southern saying " What goes around comes around"

 

[ChadW]

Karma Police, arrest this lad!

Nice. I bet he WILL be sweating until the forms is filled out. I don't see how its the father's problem! haha

 

[zercool]

Heh. I'd sweat the store for a little something. When I picked up a shotgun from a store an hour away from me, they missed something on my 4473. They sent me a letter and asked me to call them and they'd explain. I called, they explained, said they really needed me to come in an fix/initial the form... and would give me a store gift certificate for my trouble. I didn't complain about it.

 

[pharmer]

When did PA get an AWB? Sounds like store policy, nobody is getting LEGAL consequences over the "form." Joe

 

[Amici]

What "handgun form?"

There is only one federal form relevant to the above transaction; the standard 4473.

Does PA have some "assault weapon" BS requiring a separate registration?

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I'm thinking that as long as you filled out the 4473 you're good to go. What other form are they takling about???? If it is just an internal store form, then........heh heh heh...you'll get there when you get there. Maybr a gift certificate for your troubles may get you moving a bit faster.
Or better yet....make the young lad come to your house to get you to fill out the form.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Oh yeah, I'd be getting the kid to get the store manager to pay me mileage to return, even if it is some local law that must be followed. They were at fault, so a return to complete the paperwork should be on their coin.

 

[Bassamatic]

make the young lad come to your house to get you to fill out the form.

Yup, that is the best solution. As the others have said, the 4473 is all that is required, unless it's a store or local policy. Make them come out to you house and tell them you will do your best to be home.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Not that I'm a Gander Mountain fan, but that *was* an attempted straw purchase. Even the eventual purchase by the father arguably was, if the son repays the father. It would only escape being a straw purchase if the father bought it with his own money as a legitimate gift and the son didn't pay him back. Even then, if the father is a resident of Penn, and the son is a resident of NC, it is illegal to transfer the rifle to him. It would have to go through an FFL. It does not matter that they are blood relatives, or if it is a gift, etc. It's still a verboten transfer.

If the son gives dad the money, then it was an illegal straw purchase *and* an illegal transfer to an out of state resident.

The correct way to handle the transaction would have been to purchase the gun at Gander and have it shipped to a receiving FFL in NC.

 

[Gov't Cheese]

If the Dad gave the rifle to his son, it was not a straw purchase.

 

[WC145]

A straw purchase is someone legally able to buy a gun doing it for someone who is NOT legally able to buy a gun and puts up the money for it. What this guy did for his son is no different than the guns my father has bought for me, me for him, and me for my sons and my wife. It's a gift. Or he can "sell" it to his son, who the OP said has a PA license.

 

[Skip Sackett]

A gift is a gift!

I have done this numerous times buying gifts for relatives. Like mentioned above, it is only illegal when the getter is not supposed to have firearms.

 

[tom turner]

Time for roy d. Mercer . . .

It's time to get Roy D. Mercer, Texas comedian involved. He's the guy with albums out where folks get him to spoof their friends and associates with a long drawn out story about something going wrong at a certain business.

After he strings the owner or clerk along for a while, the bottom line becomes that he's got to come down there and "whup somebody's azzz."

I'll bet that twirp would fall for it lock, stock and barrel if Roy called to talk to the clerk who failed to fill out the paperwork properly for the Marine!!!


FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T HEARD ROY . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofIa8Qcaqt0

Hilarious!

T.

 

[K.38]

Does PA have a state law against selling rifles to out of staters? I bought several long guns over the years with a Military ID and a out of state DL. If you buy a handgun you have to show Military Orders showing you live in the state but a long gun you can buy in any of the free states.

 

[GatorFarmer]

The definition of a straw purchase does not necessarily mean the transfer to a prohibited person. Read the fine print on the 4473 or call the ATF. If anyone other than the "actual purchaser" of a gun buys it, then transfers it - other than as a bonafide gift - that is a straw purchase. In this case the son was the actual purchaser if he pays his father back or gives him the money.

If I saw to Dude, "Hey Dude, I want that AK over there, but I don't want any more guns in my name, buy that for me" and Dude does, then it is a still straw purchase even if I am not a prohibited person. Only if Dude buys me the AK with his own money, and gives it to me, is it a bonafide gift. Even then, I have to be a resident of Dude's state for the gifting to be legal.

 

[USAF385]

I'm not totally sure who's paying for it. I'm pretty sure it may be his Christmas present since he was away for the holidays.

 

[CJofWolfcreek]

Yes, the initial purchase attempt could be concidered a straw purchase. But I'll address another portion of GatorFarmer's post.

Any military member stationed outside of their home state or state of record has residency in BOTH states for such circumstances as firearms purchases and hunting and fishing licenses. If he's stationed in NC and maintained his home of record as PA he can legally buy firearms in both states. Now if he changed residency from PA to NC then he can only buy firearms in NC.

Long guns sometimes have a different set of rules dependant upon the states. A contiguous state (shared border) is usually the normal requirement. Being that NC doesn't share a border with PA the contiguous state requirement isn't met if he is soley a resident of NC. Most military members don't change state residency unless they intend to permenantly move to that state. Spouses are a different story.

 

[foolproofoak]

what the hell happened to the second ammendment where good hardworking americans (especially servicemen) could buy a gun the same as any other tool.

 

[straightshooter1]

Here's the problem from the perspective of someone who has had an FFL.

1. A young man tries to buy a gun, but can't because he doesn't have the proper ID (D/L for that State?).

2. A young woman with the man say she'll buy it for him.

That sounds like the classic straw purchase and I know of no FFL who would sell it to her under those circumstances.

3. But, he a Marine corporal, just back from the war.

So what?

The FFL's friends at the ATF don't give a flip who the guy is, what branch of service he may be in and where he's been and there is no way the "lad" could have known if that story was true, either. And, if it was, how does that insulate the FFL from problems if this IS a straw purchase?

We don't like to think of it, but young servicemen can come home and commit crimes just like our other young men who don't choose to serve. How does the "lad" know?

4. One can buy a long gun in another state (the contiguous stuff was dumped several years ago) AS LONG AS the purchase is legal in the state where the purchase is being made and also legal in the state where the buyer resides. I have no idea if this sale was legal in both.

5. You guys dumping on Gander and the "lad" are looking at it from the point of view that this guy was "okay" and that all he wanted was this AR15 after coming home from the war keeping the Taliban out of the U.S.

That seems reasonable and we know it is true because one of our Forum Members vouches for him.

But, you are forgetting that no one can tell if someone is a good guy or bad guy just by looking at them, no one can tell if someone is consciously lying about their service record (Remember all the VietNam Vets who claimed to be "Seals"?) and to expect an FFL to put his License on the line in this type of case is pretty unfair.

Most of the FFLs I am familiar with in this area will not complete any sale if there is even a hint that it MAY be a straw purchase. I am sure that there are at least some instances where the buyer innocently says the wrong thing, or needs to borrow money from his buddy to complete the purchase, but, at least IME, that will kill the sale on the spot, even if there is no straw purchase intended.

Bob