GD .357 135gr vs GD 38spl 135gr +P

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CatnPhx

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I've got a S&W 640-1 .357. It's a 5 shot with a 2" barrel and I've had it for about 15 years ... absolutely love the gun and it's one of my 3 carry options.

I'm a big fan of carrying Gold Dot 38spl 135gr +P Short Barrel ammo. It's a great load for the short barrel but I'd really like to carry .357 ammo if I can gain some benefit via increased velocity with nearly the same muzzle flash and recoil of the 38spl loads I carry from GD.

I've recently been reading about the GD .357 135gr Short Barrel ammo ... it looks very interesting. It's got a muzzle velocity of 990 fps compared to the GD 135gr 38spl +P of 860 fps. I'm reading that muzzle flash is minimal and recoil is very managable.

Anybody here have opinion or experience with the GD .357 135gr Short Barrel ammo? Thanks
 
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No chrono test but I buy it now instead of my old favorite Federal Hydra Shok. Much more manageable and it might not melt my ears if I have to use it indoors. The brass wrapped soft lead core should get it done. It's more important to me to keep them on target than it is for them to be Zues lightening bolts that I can't control as well.
 
I prefer Rem. Golden Saber 125 BJHP. Better results out of my guns. Also comes in .38 +P.
 
135 grain GD 357 Magnum short barrel ammunition is not loaded to full 357 Magnum potential.

It's performance lies somewhere between 38+P+ and 357-P. OK, I know that neither of those pressure designations actually exist. It is for example.

The GD SB load is great for folks that can not handle 357 Magnum recoil.

Personally I always carry and fire full power 357 Magnum in my snubbies. However it does take practice to handle.

If all you practice with is 38s, the GD SB 357 loading is not a bad choice for carry ammunition.
 
When I had a 357 snub I talked to the Speer rep in Idaho. He recommended that I switch to the 38+P short barrel round because he said I would get quicker follow up shots. He was right. I also recall that the 357 short barrel recoil was aweful. I now have a 442 no lock which houses the 38+P short barrel loads and I am very quick with follow up shots. Does not hurt my hand anymore, either.
 
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The Gold Dot SB Magnum load is easy to control because it's hardly more than a good .38 +P load. IMO it was developed for those shooters who bought a 12oz Magnum revolver for a lot of money and want the satisfaction of shooting something called Magnum ammo for all that money spent. Just because it's named magnum ammo doesn't make it perform like a magnum ammo.

It will provide you with an additional 100 or so fps so there's nothing wrong with shooting it but if you want real magnum performance choose something else. I shoot 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo in my M640 when I can find it. That revolver is heavy enough to handle real magnum ammo IMO.
 
Robert B said:
When I had a 357 snub I talked to the Speer rep in Idaho. He recommended that I switch to the 38+P short barrel round because he said I would get quicker follow up shots. He was right. I also recall that the 357 short barrel recoil was aweful. I now have a 442 no lock which houses the 38+P short barrel loads and I am very quick with follow up shots. Does not hurt my hand anymore, either.
Click to expand...

And this is to the heart of the question for me. I can "handle" a larger load but I want something that can fire rapid follow-up shots ... I can do that with the GD 38spl +P loads. I've ordered some of the GD .357 short barrel ammo and I'll do a side-by-side with my 38spl +P load. If I can fire as rapidly then I'll make the switch (why wouldn't I if I get another 100+ FPS?) but otherwise I'll stick with the GD 38spl +P round.

All - Thanks for the feedback.
 
I get 952fps with 357 GDSB 135gr in my 340. It is a bit more than a +P but I don't say ouch after every shot.

DSC_0147f.jpg


If I want pain I will just hit myself in the hand with a hammer, it is a dollar a hit less expensive with the same satisfaction.
 
I just got some in the mail today so in the next couple of weeks I'll head to the range and do the side-by-side with the GD 135gr 38spl +P. It's so damn hot right now that it's difficult to hit the outdoor range (115 today and 116 tomorrow). If I can control the GD .357 load as good as the 38spl then I'll make the switch. Thanks for the feedback.
 
CatnPhx said:
And this is to the heart of the question for me. I can "handle" a larger load but I want something that can fire rapid follow-up shots ... I can do that with the GD 38spl +P loads.
Click to expand...

I went through something similar a few months ago when I was trying to decide on carry ammo for my revolvers. I was shooting the Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158gr LSWCHP +P in my steel K-frames and comparing them to the standard pressure version. While I could handle the +P recoil, I was noticeably quicker on follow-up shots with the standard pressure version. I ended up going with the standard pressure version in my K-frames. For me, being able to get quick, accurate hits is more important than raw power.

There is one thing to consider that I don't think anyone's mentioned, and it might not be be a big deal in the overall scheme of things, but it might be worth thinking about: Case extraction. The 640-1 doesn't have a full-length extractor rod. I've read where .357 Magnum rounds fired in a gun with a short extractor rod might not be fully ejected. The .357 Magnum runs at a higher pressure than .38 Special so there's a higher likelihood of the cases sticking due to expansion. The snub's extractor rod might be too short to fully eject the .357 cases. Repeated hits with the extractor rod could cause the case rim to get caught under the extractor star. I've only shot .357 ammo in a 3" 65, which has a full-length extractor rod, so I don't know how likely this could be. Then again, the SB-GDHP might not generate enough pressure where this would be a concern. When you're evaluating ammo it might be worth checking to see if it could be an issue or not.
 
Mack said:
.38 +P+ did exist in a 147 grain JHP from Federal. Actually I just checked an it is still cataloged, MV of 930 fps.

LE: Ballistics Detail
Click to expand...

As a side note... I bought a bunch of that stuff back when Cheaper Than Dirt was selling it for dirt cheap (haha) and it is very, very accurate. I seem to recall that was the last .38 Special load the FBI used before quitting the .38 Special.
 
The nice thing about both of the Gold Dot short barrel loads discussed is the bullet is designed to expand at the velocity derived from shooting in a 2" barrel gun. Shooting full power .357 Magnum ammo that is designed to expand at 4" barrel velocities is not going to work as well at 2" barrel velocites.
 
The Speer GDHP SB .357 is a sweet round. I carry it in both my M60 snubby and my 4" 686.
 
I carry a 640-1 (one of the best guns ever!) and use the 135 grain GDSB Magnum loads. At the last range trip, I shot some 125 grain GD Magnums from my 686, and those are pretty much full house magnums...it made everybody at the range stop, put their guns down and come to my lane to see what I was shooting. I don't think I'll ever shoot that from my 640...I may never shoot it from my 686 again...it was extremely loud. I also shot some of the 135 GDSB from the 640-1, and even though it was a smaller gun it felt fine and didn't make people wet themselves when it went off. I prefer the 135 GDSB .38 +P from the 642, the 135 GDSB .357 Magnum from the 640-1, and the 135 GDSB .38 +P from the 686 for personal defense. That's just me...good luck, B
 
ArchAngelCD said:
The Gold Dot SB Magnum load is easy to control because it's hardly more than a good .38 +P load. IMO it was developed for those shooters who bought a 12oz Magnum revolver for a lot of money and want the satisfaction of shooting something called Magnum ammo for all that money spent. Just because it's named magnum ammo doesn't make it perform like a magnum ammo.

It will provide you with an additional 100 or so fps so there's nothing wrong with shooting it but if you want real magnum performance choose something else. I shoot 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo in my M640 when I can find it. That revolver is heavy enough to handle real magnum ammo IMO.
Click to expand...

Do you know what the 145 gr STHP's are going out of the 640?
 
Sorry, I have never sent any over the chrono. They are rated at 1290 fps from a 4" vented barrel so I would guess I lose no more than 200 fps from a 2" revolver. The main reason I shoot then in the M640 is accuracy. That ammo is scary accurate in that revolver. (like I'm shooting a 6" barrel revolver)
 
Gold Dot SB's are designed to expand out of short barrels due to the lower FPS you get from them. They are one of the few rounds that expand through 4 layers out of a short barrel.

Many of the full house rounds do not perform very well out of a snub. Despite, the heavy recoil. If you look at Doc Roberts findings, it shows that.
 
I have more than my share of the short barreled Chief's Special Revolvers and truly feel that they are just too small and light to really handle the .357 Magnum Cartridge. Although the 357 ammo will physically fit in some of them, most of the powder of the 357's is burned outside of the short barrel - hence the huge muzzle flash and nose. You would be better served carrying either (my favorite) Buffalo Bore 158 grain (HEAVY 38 Spl.) +P LSWCHP-GC which out of a 2" barrel will do an honest 1025 fps. The Gold Dot 357's are lighter, will shoot low, have more flash, blast & recoil, and at the end of the day will be arguably less effective.

NOW..........

if you are willing to step up to a 3" model 65 or 66 for example, the .357 Magnum's are much better tolerated, and will actually be controllable, allow quick follow up shots, and make the velocities out of the longer barrel worth carrying the Magnum's over the 38's if so required or desired.

I do like the Speer Gold Dot's but I like the Buffalo Bore ammo better. I always have subscribed the heavier bullet theory, ESPECIALLY in short barreled guns.

Chief38
 
I carry a 640-1 357. It is a great gun. I do carry 357s. ContinentalOp is absolutely correct about case extraction. My 640 does not push the 357 cases all the way out. Repeated hits on the ejector rod really doesn't get them out either as the rod just is not long enough. I carry 158 gr LSWCHP with a mild magnum load. I would consider Buffalo Bore's 38+p if they were more accurate in my gun. My 357 load is just a little hotter than BB 38+P load.
 
ContinentalOp,your comment about the ejection with the shorter ejector rods was also one of the considerations for me when I went to the GD 135 SB load in my 19-2 snub.
More likely that the 38 cases will extract fully than the longer magnum ones. If I need a reload I'll need to hurry up fast,no time for hang ups.
 
The Gold Dot is really slow for a "magnum". I prefer Golden Saber or Corbon DPX, both a medium powered loads.
 
I have fired both the GD .357 mag 135 gr, and the GD .38 spl 135 gr +P from my 640-1. If I was choosing one of those two loads it would definately be the GD .357 mag 135 gr loading. The difference in recoil & blast between the two is negligible at best. If I was going to carry .38 spl ammo in the 640-1 I would get rid of it, and get a 442 in .38 spl. The weight of the 640-1 (23 oz) is there to help with the magnum recoil. If magnums won't be used, why carry the extra weight of the 640-1? Getting a 442 (15 oz) would lighten your carry load by 8 ozs.

FWIW, I carry Corbon .357 mag 125 gr DPX ammo in my 640-1.
 
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