General reloading info for 38/357

[158Grain]

I do not currently reload or own a press...yet. I plan to start reloading in the near future and right now I am reading everything I can possibly get my hands on. I plan to purchase a Hornady LNL classic press. I like the bushings that keep the dies set and it seems like a sturdy press that I can use for years. I have ordered the Hornady reloading guide as well as the Lyman book. I plan to read them both before purchasing any equipment. With that being said, I have a few questions that I simply can't find the answer to. I will be reloading for my 686 to shoot steel targets with an occasional competition.

How do you know when you have found THE load? Is it simply by group size in a particular gun, velocity, cleanliness...etc? What distance do most reloaders test their loads at? How do you know that no further testing is required or is there constant research and development even after finding a great load?

How do you know what powder to use without trying most of them out? I guess the better question is slow burning, fast burning, clean or dirty. I can' imagine keeping load data on most major brands of powder with different bullet weights and styles and different charges. I will create and excel file to keep track of my data, but this seems like a migraine waiting to happen.

Sorry for such general questions and I appreciate any guidance provided.

 

[arjay]

I always went after group size at 25 or 50 yards and figured the approximate velocities in the manuals were close enough.Cleanliness became less of a concern because I prefer cast bullets (I'm cheap) and burning lube does leave some soot.An important lesson learned long ago,was to work up loads using primers and powders that were always in stock locally.Its a fun hobby in its own right.Good Luck.

 

[ACP230]

If I make an accurate load, that works in my guns, I generally don't mind having to clean the gun after shooting.

I started reloading .38s with Bullseye and still use it sometimes.
Loaded .38s .45s and .41 Magnums with Unique. People say it is a dirty
powder but it makes accurate loads so I don't care.

Bullseye and Unique are standard, classic powders. I found it very easy
to develop good loads with each so have not used a lot of other powders.

I have used H110 for some magnum loads and .30 Carbine.
Tried one of the Clays powders in .45 but quickly went back to
Unique. Have a can of Trail Boss that I haven't tried yet.

If I was starting out again I would still start with Bullseye and
Unique.

 

[hotrod150]

I started handloading back in the 1980's and have always stuck with what I learned with, so have no experience with trail pistol, power boss, universal anything, or any of the other new-fangled powder. I have always used Bullseye W231 & Unique, from fast to slow, and they have always served me well. Currently only loading 9mm & 38spl and only using W231.
FWIW I'm pretty old school when it comes to rifle loading also-- I've used others but 4064 4350 & 4831 pretty much covers all the bases for all the calibers I've ever had.

 

[158Grain]

Thanks for the quick replies. I figured it was group size but I wasn't sure where velocity came into play. I won't mind if a powder that produces good loads is a little dirty, as I was planning on trying LSWC anyway. So once you find an accurate load with Bullseye or Unique, is that pretty much your go to load?

 

[zonker5]

I haven't used Bullseye but have been through a lot of Unique and W231. Both give excellent results with 158g LSWC in .38spl.

In .357 my go to load is 5.8 of W231 behind a 158 LSWC.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Depends if you might shoot IDPA , maybe "Cowboy" or other games...?
Some call for a Power Factor of your loads, some by velocity.

If just "Plinking" or killing paper the standard Factory loads are a good starting point but you can "Down load" for even less recoil and some times better accuracy.

Pick the "Standard Bullets" used in your gun and let er rip !!
You will find something that works for you.

Good shooting

 

[arjay]

I've used far more unique,but I do use bullseye and 2400 in pistol loads too.4350 seemed to take care of my rifle loads.Once I worked up a load I liked ,I just kept using it.

 

[venomballistics]

I do not currently reload or own a press...yet. I plan to start reloading in the near future and right now I am reading everything I can possibly get my hands on. I plan to purchase a Hornady LNL classic press. I like the bushings that keep the dies set and it seems like a sturdy press that I can use for years. I have ordered the Hornady reloading guide as well as the Lyman book. I plan to read them both before purchasing any equipment. With that being said, I have a few questions that I simply can't find the answer to. I will be reloading for my 686 to shoot steel targets with an occasional competition.

How do you know when you have found THE load? Is it simply by group size in a particular gun, velocity, cleanliness...etc? What distance do most reloaders test their loads at? How do you know that no further testing is required or is there constant research and development even after finding a great load?

How do you know what powder to use without trying most of them out? I guess the better question is slow burning, fast burning, clean or dirty. I can' imagine keeping load data on most major brands of powder with different bullet weights and styles and different charges. I will create and excel file to keep track of my data, but this seems like a migraine waiting to happen.

Sorry for such general questions and I appreciate any guidance provided.

generally I start with an intended purpose for a load and select things to meet that purpose.
"The" load is that load which meets the specifications dictated by that purpose.

Velocity is power, and accuracy is the means to place that power. Balance them as needed, at the range intended.

Clean/Dirty is a perenial debate, especially among newcomers.
All loads make a mess, the only difference is the degree to which they do so.
a dirty load is neither friend nor foe and most often, needs not to be considered.
the only time it really factors in is with a load used in particularly high volume.
if you anticipate two thousand round range sessions with a particular load, cleanliness may become a valid issue if crud manages to build up enough to tie up the gun before the quota is met.
I've only encountered this once, in a shotshell trap load.

 

[158Grain]

Thanks again for all the pointers. You have all definitely clarified a few things for me. Another question I thought of...Do most of you use a 357 case with a light charge just for plinking or stick with a 38 special case with a "normal" charge? My instincts tell me a 357 case to avoid the extra crud that develops in the cylinder using the shorter 38, and that way if I want to load some hotter rounds I already have the brass. Is my thinking correct?

 

[rwsmith]

Unless you have a reason.....

Thanks for the quick replies. I figured it was group size but I wasn't sure where velocity came into play. I won't mind if a powder that produces good loads is a little dirty, as I was planning on trying LSWC anyway. So once you find an accurate load with Bullseye or Unique, is that pretty much your go to load?

Except for flatter shooting trajectory, velocity doesn't figure into target shooting at all. The most accurate load may be a light or medium load for your gun.

I used .38 cases but I like to shoot .38s first, then the .357 and of course the crud ring interferes. I'm trying to accumulate enough .357 cases so I won't have to use .38 at all.

 

[venomballistics]

Except for flatter shooting trajectory, velocity doesn't figure into target shooting at all. The most accurate load may be a light or medium load for your gun.

hence the purpose dictated specifications.
anything can punch paper at 25 yards, but not everything can put game on the table from 100

 

[venomballistics]

Thanks again for all the pointers. You have all definitely clarified a few things for me. Another question I thought of...Do most of you use a 357 case with a light charge just for plinking or stick with a 38 special case with a "normal" charge? My instincts tell me a 357 case to avoid the extra crud that develops in the cylinder using the shorter 38, and that way if I want to load some hotter rounds I already have the brass. Is my thinking correct?

some use 38 spec data in 357 cases to great effect to achieve exactly that

 

[158Grain]

some use 38 spec data in 357 cases to great effect to achieve exactly that

I thought of that, but I was worried about a possible squib round when at the starting point of powder. Would the pressure in a 357 case loaded to 38 special power be too low with the above mentioned powders?

 

[venomballistics]

I thought of that, but I was worried about a possible squib round when at the starting point of powder. Would the pressure in a 357 case loaded to 38 special power be too low with the above mentioned powders?

I've never heard of it happening ... the difference between the two isn't very pronounced and most all starting loads are above the absolute dead minimum to begin with.

For a real nasty prank, I had developed a 44 mag load using a 214 grain cast bullet, pushed to just 350 FPS.
the victim anticipated a fistful of flamin' rage and thunder ... and braced for such as he worked up the courage to unleash a not so mighty "Plip" .......................... "thunk".

after you get a good working feel for the various burn rates .. you can pull off some really weird things

 

[ozo]

"How do you know what powder to use without trying most of them out? "---158Grain

I don't know the Hornady LNL classic press.......but many others do.

First and foremost, I would ask the users of this press which powder measure they use, and which powders measure well, or don't measure well.
I use a Dillon. It likes ball powder.
Therefore, my choices are among them.

Then I research the data for the components I will use.
Primers, hmmmm, any SPP....[not magnum]
Brass, .357magnum
Projectile, 158gr lead [and shape which may determine seating]
Then I start looking at my powder choices
Make any sense?

That being said, after 50yrs of reloading, I still like things simple.
And from this simplicity angle alone, incorporated with the other calibers I load for, I have developed my choices.

My rule is basically this for a .357magnum cartridge.....
Barrel length under 6" I use W231/HP-38 powder
Barrel length over 6" I use AA#9 powder

 

[mongoose65]

My go to load for .357 is 7.0 gr of 231 and a 125 gr SJHP. That is a nice target load for me.

 

[arjay]

In a 38 case with a 158 gr lswc,4.6 gr of Unique is a mild,accurate load.
5 gr is still accurate,but more potent.

 

[ozo]

I thought of that, but I was worried about a possible squib round when at the starting point of powder. Would the pressure in a 357 case loaded to 38 special power be too low with the above mentioned powders?

Please remember there is only 1/10" difference in length between the .38special and .357magnum brass.......
and don't pay any attention to anything you hear about wall thickness and amount of inside space.

I would be much more concerned with the projectile. What shape, weight, etc. and how deep it is seated when worrying about the interior pressure.
Also the amount of crimp can affect pressure.

And, while reading......and anyone will also advise......
The ABC's of Reloading by Rodney James is excellent.

 

[158Grain]

Thanks again to all. I was very confused by the 10 pages of available powders on Midway's site. Now it makes more sense. I was hoping that once I found a reliable load I could leave well enough alone.

 

[158Grain]

And, while reading......and anyone will also advise......
The ABC's of Reloading by Rodney James is excellent.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look it up also

 

[158Grain]

Do most of you use a bullet with a cannelure or go by OAL to determine seating depth? As mentioned above I was originally thinking a 158 gr. LSWC. I have found that most available have a cannelure. Since I haven't purchased anything at all to get started I am open to other recommendations. I already have a good set of calipers and will check every round for length regardless.

 

[venomballistics]

Thanks again to all. I was very confused by the 10 pages of available powders on Midway's site. Now it makes more sense. I was hoping that once I found a reliable load I could leave well enough alone.

what fun would that be

Think like gears in a transmission
first gear ... bullseye
Second gear .. 231
third gear ... unique
forth gear ... 2400
over drive ... H110 or 300MP
fasten ye 5 point harness and don't forget to shift

 

[venomballistics]

Do most of you use a bullet with a cannelure or go by OAL to determine seating depth? As mentioned above I was originally thinking a 158 gr. LSWC. I have found that most available have a cannelure. Since I haven't purchased anything at all to get started I am open to other recommendations. I already have a good set of calipers and will check every round for length regardless.

The cannelure largely dictates the OAL
Now ... when you say LSWC ... do you mean cast or swaged like the Hornady and Speer offerings?
You can get away with a good bit more with cast

 

[158Grain]

what fun would that be

Think like gears in a transmission
first gear ... bullseye
Second gear .. 231
third gear ... unique
forth gear ... 2400
over drive ... H110 or 300MP
fasten ye 5 point harness and don't forget to shift

Dumb question here, but are talking Aliant Bullseye, Winchester 231, and Aliant Unique smokeless powder...? I'm trying to keep them all straight and have started my "notes" today. I'm using Midway's site for reference.

 

[158Grain]

The cannelure largely dictates the OAL
Now ... when you say LSWC ... do you mean cast or swaged like the Hornady and Speer offerings?
You can get away with a good bit more with cast

I honestly don't know what the difference is. Is there an advantage of one over the other? I'm ultimately looking for a readily available bullet. I have seen some bullets that say they are machined LSWC. I'm assuming you would have more control over the load with a more consistent bullet.

 

[venomballistics]

Dumb question here, but are talking Aliant Bullseye, Winchester 231, and Aliant Unique smokeless powder...? I'm trying to keep them all straight and have started my "notes" today. I'm using Midway's site for reference.

Most of my reloading migrated to Alliant powders with a few others filling in the gaps.
experimentation is virtually unavoidable and your tranny will ultimately be set up differently from mine.
I only offer it as a baseline you can start from
check data ... you may find something similar to any in the list that you prefer

 

[venomballistics]

I honestly don't know what the difference is. Is there an advantage of one over the other? I'm ultimately looking for a readily available bullet.

you also admit to looking at Midway.
Therein you will find stuff from hunters supply, Oregon trail and lazercast.

cast is a harder bullet, with grooves full of lube. Both of which saves frustration with leading issues as you decide to push them.
A good cast 158 SWC can cover a lot of territory from light target loads right on up to full magnum thunder.
Soft, lightly lubed swaged lead is kinda a one trick pony for target loads only

 

[zonker5]

I thought of that, but I was worried about a possible squib round when at the starting point of powder. Would the pressure in a 357 case loaded to 38 special power be too low with the above mentioned powders?

Cartridge performance is a combination of factors, among them the amount of powder and the volume of the case. Put a specific charge of powder in a larger case and pressure should go down...but there are no guarantees. Strange things can happen inside the case.

The reloading data tables have a minimum charge for a reason. Stick with them.

 

[blujax01]

Please remember there is only 1/10" difference in length between the .38special and .357magnum brass.......
and don't pay any attention to anything you hear about the... amount of inside space.

...

Yeah, that 18% reduction in volume won't have any effect at all.