Getting even deeper at Boeing

[Doug M.]

Given the completely unethical culture in Boeing management, probably, as was noted above, driven by MBAs, it would not be all that surprising to see criminal prosecution for hundreds of counts of involuntary manslaughter. No one will listen or learn until 10 or so get some real prison time.

As a government attorney, I deal with such problems regularly. We get people in from private industry backgrounds, and they are incapable of understanding that government service is highly regulated for a lot of good reasons. We are using the people's money to do their work, and that means that there are rigid rules about how we do that work. I have seen people who are not dumb, but are so damaged by their private industry backgrounds that it takes years to get them up to the standard of conduct that we need.

As for MBAs, I had experiences with them in my MPA classes in grad school after the MPA program was moved into the Business College. Horrible. Low intellect, less integrity, and the Dean was a steaming heap of excrement. I reamed him but good one day - he was so stupid he had no idea what I even meant initially, and when he finally understood, I thought he was going to cry. I publicly referred to him as an oxygen thief. When I finished my MPA, I was the honors grad that year, and he had to be warned I would be coming to graduation and that he was not welcome to speak with or interact with me. He, and most of his minions, could not have passed a background in a taxi. (He was of a particular religious faith which generally results in people who live up to its tenets, but like all groups has a small group who really stink up the place. He was one of the stinkers, and one of the very few I have ever met who did not live up to the reputation of that faith.)

 

[Onomea]

That’s a mighty broad brush there, Doug. I’ve yet to find the barrel with no rotten apples.

While I wish it were so that government employees were more ethical than private, I do not believe that to be the case. I’ve known good and bad on both sides of the fence.

 

[LVSteve]

1. I believe that the 737 MAX is one of the first aircraft that Boeing designed with the LEAP/CFM International engine:

Actually, I would contend that the 737 cannot be designed to take the LEAP engine because it simply doesn't fit with the legacy short undercarriage. The CFM 56 powered aircraft had to use engine nacelles flattened at the bottom to maintain ground/FOD clearance.

There comes a point when you can't re-engine an aircraft any more because of other design features. Boeing failed to realize they had reached that point, IMHO.

 

[Golddollar]

Remember - No good deed goes unpunished!

That's for darn sure!

 

[The Big D]

Reallllllly!

So you almost made the Dean cry and HE had to be warned NOT to interact with YOU.

That, in consonance with your myriad posts demanding people be arrested/charged/incarcerated makes me think YOU believe you are the smartest person in the room.

Be safe.

Given the completely unethical culture in Boeing management, probably, as was noted above, driven by MBAs, it would not be all that surprising to see criminal prosecution for hundreds of counts of involuntary manslaughter. No one will listen or learn until 10 or so get some real prison time.

As a government attorney, I deal with such problems regularly. We get people in from private industry backgrounds, and they are incapable of understanding that government service is highly regulated for a lot of good reasons. We are using the people's money to do their work, and that means that there are rigid rules about how we do that work. I have seen people who are not dumb, but are so damaged by their private industry backgrounds that it takes years to get them up to the standard of conduct that we need.

As for MBAs, I had experiences with them in my MPA classes in grad school after the MPA program was moved into the Business College. Horrible. Low intellect, less integrity, and the Dean was a steaming heap of excrement. I reamed him but good one day - he was so stupid he had no idea what I even meant initially, and when he finally understood, I thought he was going to cry. I publicly referred to him as an oxygen thief. When I finished my MPA, I was the honors grad that year, and he had to be warned I would be coming to graduation and that he was not welcome to speak with or interact with me. He, and most of his minions, could not have passed a background in a taxi. (He was of a particular religious faith which generally results in people who live up to its tenets, but like all groups has a small group who really stink up the place. He was one of the stinkers, and one of the very few I have ever met who did not live up to the reputation of that faith.)

 

[wheelgun28]

I see the story as "meh", what I am pretty sure of

Boeing did do things wrong and mistakes were made, the hows and why I don't know.

Then, so-called news with cherry-picked articles of a dubious source. Lets just say I find it disingenuous.

 

[ldausmc1369]

And what’s wrong with an MBA? Had one now going on 43years... haven’t grown horns or a tail!! Yet...

 

[Nevada Ed]

Maybe a little off subject but............

I think it takes a lot of guts for a company manager to come up to you , and tell you that you have train a new hire for your job.........

so he can manage it, when they fire you!!

My wife's friend, almost fainted.

 

[LVSteve]

Maybe a little off subject but............

I think it takes a lot of guts for a company manager to come up to you , and tell you that you have train a new hire for your job.........

so he can manage it, when they fire you!!

My wife's friend, almost fainted.

Apparently that's what makes a "good" manager according to the Wall Street measure. No conscience, and stainless steel privates so you can tell anyone anything to their face with no twinge of regret.

 

[BSA1]

Spirit Aero Systems (Boeing) is cutting 2,800 jobs (over 20% of it’s workforce) in Wichita, Kansas. Spirit builds about 75% of the 737 then it is sent by rail to Washington for final assembly. The 737 accounts for over 50% of it’s revenue.

This is going to hit Wichita hard.

 

[kamloops67]

Maybe a little off subject but............

I think it takes a lot of guts for a company manager to come up to you , and tell you that you have train a new hire for your job.........

so he can manage it, when they fire you!!

My wife's friend, almost faingted.

Had this happen to me many years ago
I was promised a managers position in the construction based rental/ retail store i worked at. When the job became available the owner hired a buddy of his instead I would have understood if the guy was more experienced than i was but he had been a waiter at a restaurant prior to this job !
I was asked to train him which i agreed to do to keep the paycheque coming but everyday it burned a little hotter til i just said goodbye
I didnt make a scene i just left them to sink in their own mess

 

[Sistema1927]

I am guessing that someone at American Airlines is kicking themself for retiring the MD-80 and replacing it with 737's.

That old "Mad Dog 80" sure gives a smoother ride, both up front and in the back, compared to the Boeing.

 

[Golddollar]

I worked for a firm for 17 years. Somebody made a decision that I wasn't going to go anywhere, which became obvious when people just of out school were making substantially more than me after 15 years. But it's amazing how things can work out. I left for a job that got me a big raise, and when the fellow who replaced me suddenly died, they were asking me to come back. Thanks to good planning, I was retired and could tell them I'm not coming back to work for them.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I had a job and my supervisors position opened up. I had been promised this job when I hired on, but they hired someone else. (My wife knew him from growing up a referred to him as: "White Trash, with a tie!") While I was convalescing from a stroke he ran my division, In 94 days made $84,000 in blunders that I found! He managed to get me fired before I could submit my report. In the last hour of employment, I deleted every file and photo of his blunders. Within 2 and a half years the company was out of existence as I knew it! My thoughts were, "You wanted him, you get to keep him, now what are you going to do?"

The "Peter Principle" is a very sharp two edged sward!

Ivan

 

[NYlakesider]

Maybe a little off subject but............

I think it takes a lot of guts for a company manager to come up to you , and tell you that you have train a new hire for your job.........

so he can manage it, when they fire you!!

My wife's friend, almost fainted.

My wife was quite good at her job for the state, but to advance further she need a college degree. She was friendly with the office manager and he told her give me some time and I think I can do a work around.

She trained a lot of people for a job above hers, (a couple pay grades higher and could go up from there)

Well after a couple years her manager came through, he had friends in high places and they got the criteria changed to include work time and experience and she was allowed to take the promotional test. She passed it and got the promotion. Took a couple more tests passed them and when the office manager friend retired she got that job. She held that till she retired.

 

[Doug M.]

Ok, my crack was arguably a little unfair, but it was based on my experiences. The Dean had engaged in conduct that was clearly unethical, at best bordered on criminal and should have gotten him fired, and when I complained in writing, he told me to withdraw from the program if I did not like it and copied my department head. He should have apologized, and the University administration should have crushed him for his actions. That was like kerosene on a modest fire. That place is still no better; my wife was (and is) faculty there, and in fact had to call out the same Dean on other severe misconduct, also an adequate justification for firing. He was warned about my coming to graduation as it was no secret how much I loathed him and he had to present my award for being honors grad.

I made no secret of my loathing for him and his ilk, and 26 years later, I have found little reason to change my mind. The University is a collection of dumpster fires; we sued and won over some pretty serious misconduct that got no one disciplined, even though it was clear that intentional falsehoods were put forward by senior administrators and their AAG (who now works there, oh be still my heaving stomach).

Back on topic: I live near enough to Seattle that I peruse a lot of their local print and broadcast media so that I have some idea what the moonbats over there are doing. Boeing's travails have been heavily covered, and when engineers refer in wiring to the product as designed by clowns who are supervised by monkeys, and people responsible for providing information to regulators around the world admit and take pride in their "Jedi mind tricks" to convince the regulators that all is well when there was ample reason to believe there was not, that's a bad sign. There is at least one federal criminal investigation going on, and in discussions with other prosecutors and cops about the situation, we have all concluded that a prosecution for some form of negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter by whatever label the feds use appears to be justified.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

As a criminal defense lawyer my first thought is why in the world would anybody be so stupid as to put something like that in writing that will be preserved forever. And God help you if you try to delete it because you can't and your efforts will lead to an obstruction of Justice charge. If you need to keep it in the shadows Face to face is best-talking low is OK but a wink and a nod is better.....
Rule of thumb is if you wouldn't want someone to read your e mails you are probably doing something wrong, unethical or illegal or more likely a little of all.

 

[flagman1776]

737 MAX How did we get here?

The Boeing 737 family was designed long ago. So long ago that the planes were unloaded by hand. To facilitate unloading, the landing gear was kept short. Enter the MAX. The motors are physically larger. To get required runway clearance they have to mount the motors up and forward. This causes handling issues. So they alter the software controlling the airplane's flying characteristics rather than lengthen the landing gear.

 

[DWalt]

According to what I read in the paper today, there is another problem just revealed. The software that checks on the software that controls the anti-stall system is also unreliable.

 

[Rastoff]

As a criminal defense lawyer my first thought is why in the world would anybody be so stupid as to put something like that in writing that will be preserved forever.

Conscience. Some just can't handle the stress associated with a guilty mind and confession is good for the soul. Yes, it's legal suicide, but coming clean is sometimes worth it.



I was working with some Boeing guys to test something like an RFID tag. They wanted to install it on an F-16 for testing. As we went through the wickets to get this thing applied to the skin of an F-16, the Boeing guy said, "Man, how do you guys get anything done with all this paperwork and checks?" I replied, "What do you think would happen if this "sticker" came off at Mach 1.2?" He said, "Oh, that wouldn't be good." "Yeah," I replied, "that's why we do all the checks. To ensure the pilot and plane are safe."

If Boeing is asking their employees to do things that dodge the proper methods ensuring air worthiness, shame on them. I'd hate to see Boeing go under, but maybe it's the right thing if they're doing business this way.