Getting even deeper at Boeing

[LVSteve]

Seems like a bunch of internal company emails got released and the highlights make ugly reading. A cherry picked by our friends at the BBC.

And in a May 2018 message, an unnamed Boeing employee said: "I still haven't been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year."

Without citing what was covered up, the employee added: "Can't do it one more time, the pearly gates will be closed."

Boeing 737 Max: Worker said plane 'designed by clowns' - BBC News

Another article blaming Boeing's ills on the takeover of (or was it by?) McDonnell Douglas has popped up.

How the McDonnell Douglas-Boeing merger led to the 737 Max crisis — Quartz

 

[NYlakesider]

Well looks like to me this is not the time to buy Boeing stock!

 

[mtgianni]

Whenever a boss asked me to do something against written company policy, or against the law, I always asked for an e-mail telling me to do so. It is amazing how often people don't know what can be done in court with one. Boss never would do it and I wouldn't violate their policy.

 

[Telecaster]

"...a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation...."

Sounds like some gun manufacturers.

 

[delcrossv]

"...a move away from expensive, ground-breaking engineering and toward what some called a more cut-throat culture, devoted to keeping costs down and favoring upgrading older models at the expense of wholesale innovation...."

Sounds like some gun manufacturers.

What happens when an engineering company gets taken over by bean-counters.

 

[kraynky]

What happens when an engineering company gets taken over by bean-counters.

As seen around the world many time over. Recovery is a long and bumpy road.

 

[Imissedagain]

So much for what Pro-Airline pilots once said, " if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going".

 

[LVSteve]

Whenever a boss asked me to do something against written company policy, or against the law, I always asked for an e-mail telling me to do so. It is amazing how often people don't know what can be done in court with one. Boss never would do it and I wouldn't violate their policy.

My cousin had this happen in England.

Want to meet men in suits who can shout a lot. Just put "waiting time" on your time sheet when you are in between government projects.

Want to make the shouting men go away? Ask them which government project to book your time and ask if the government project officer knows you are now doing stuff for him.

He is still at the same company. They won't make him redundant because:

1) He's one of the last "been there, done that" practical people they have
2) His redundancy would be on the 1980s retained terms, i.e. very expensive
3) In light of 2 they are quietly hoping he will get frustrated and leave.

Point 3 leads to an interesting stand off. If the company create a constructive dismissal situation, he knows where all the bodies are buried.

 

[DWalt]

Well looks like to me this is not the time to buy Boeing stock!

Or maybe an excellent time. Boeing's not going away.

 

[Onomea]

...They won't make him redundant because:

1) He's one of the last "been there, done that" practical people they have
2) His redundancy would be on the 1980s retained terms, i.e. very expensive
3) In light of 2 they are quietly hoping he will get frustrated and leave.

Point 3 leads to an interesting stand off. If the company create a constructive dismissal situation, he knows where all the bodies are buried.

 

[rwsmith]

Another....

Another once-great company succumbs to corporate 'thinking'.

 

[Kitgun]

MBA.......

 

[Univibe]

The problem with airline safety is too many government regulations. We should get the government out of the aircraft design and pilot training business, and let the free market decide these things.

 

[gregintenn]

Or maybe an excellent time. Boeing's not going away.

Give it a while to tank, then buy it.

 

[LVSteve]

The problem with airline safety is too many government regulations. We should get the government out of the aircraft design and pilot training business, and let the free market decide these things.

So what you are saying is that government regulation forced Boeing into building a compromised aircraft? When I say compromised, it seems the Boeing staff knew it at the worker bee level. Alrighty then.

As for market forces, yep, that'll work. Me and a whole slew of other folk will never step on a 737 MAX except as a ground exhibit at the museum for abject failures. Should be interesting watching Boeing trying to write that off their corporate taxes.

 

[Marine Corps Air]

Note: I am not an aircraft accident investigator, but I have been flying and engaged in flight operations since the 1960s. I have over 2,000 accident free flight hours.

The content of the e-mails that were published today is certainly of concern, especially if this situation is pervasive at Boeing, and not just from a small segment of the workforce. Regardless, there should be an investigation to determine all of the facts.

From an "aircraft safety" perspective, while I deeply regret that a total of approximately 346 lives have been lost, I am glad that a system exists today whereby this aircraft accident information is quickly shared globally. This sharing of the information from these two aircraft accidents was perhaps the impetus for the immediate grounding of all 737 MAX aircraft worldwide.

I also share the opinion that professional ethics and values were compromised during the aircraft design, development, and production phases.

I have been following the 737 MAX accident information from Day 1. Of the myriad of factors that I am researching include, but are not limited to:

1. I believe that the 737 MAX is one of the first aircraft that Boeing designed with the LEAP/CFM International engine:

2. The new aircraft engine nacelles being larger and more forward possess aerodynamic properties which act to further increase the pitch up rate.

3. To mitigate the pitch-up tendency of the new flight geometry from the engines being located further forward and higher than previous engines, Boeing added the new Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS).

4. The MCAS lowers the nose without pilot action when it determines the aircraft is too nose-high, based on input from airspeed, altitude and angle of attack sensors. However, it is susceptible to erroneous activation.

5. The MCAS signal source is the Angle of Attack (AoA) sensor located on the outside of the aircraft. If I am correct, aircraft can be ordered with only one AoA sensor.

#5 reminds me of an Air France aircraft accident on May 31, 2009 - Death in the Atlantic: The Last Four Minutes of Air France Flight 447 - DER SPIEGEL

Bill

 

[rwsmith]

I saw a video....

.........I have been following the 737 MAX accident information from Day 1. Of the myriad of factors that I am researching include, but are not limited to:

1. I believe that the 737 MAX is one of the first aircraft that Boeing designed with the LEAP/CFM International engine:

2. The new aircraft engine nacelles being larger and more forward possess aerodynamic properties which act to further increase the pitch up rate.

3. To mitigate the pitch-up tendency of the new flight geometry from the engines being located further forward and higher than previous engines, Boeing added the new Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS).

4. The MCAS lowers the nose without pilot action when it determines the aircraft is too nose-high, based on input from airspeed, altitude and angle of attack sensors. However, it is susceptible to erroneous activation.

5. The MCAS signal source is the Angle of Attack (AoA) sensor located on the outside of the aircraft. If I am correct, aircraft can be ordered with only one AoA sensor.

#5 reminds me of an Air France aircraft accident on May 31, 2009 - Death in the Atlantic: The Last Four Minutes of Air France Flight 447 - DER SPIEGEL

Bill

I watched a vid where an airline installed a similar MCAS on their planes WITHOUT INFORMING THE PILOTS. They got into trouble and whenever they tried to pull the nose up, the plane pointed it down until they crashed.

I also saw where the pilots were in a critical speed situation and the automatic systems overrode the pilots throttle input. This automation stuff is truly a double edged sword.

 

[Golddollar]

Whenever a boss asked me to do something against written company policy, or against the law, I always asked for an e-mail telling me to do so. It is amazing how often people don't know what can be done in court with one. Boss never would do it and I wouldn't violate their policy.

But eventually they'll find an excuse to get rid of you. When I was working for the title insurance company, a proposed transaction, in my opinion based on some 30 years of experience, was a claim waiting to happen, and I refused to authorize insuring it. At first, the higher ups backed me up. But the ticked off settlement agent kept going up the ladder and eventually somebody caved in and cut me off at the knees. When the grandparent company made some new acquisitions and was integrating the new companies, guess who got fired?

 

[DWalt]

But eventually they'll find an excuse to get rid of you.

I once had a very brilliant and sharp co-worker who was always a thorn in the side of management, and he was usually right. They couldn't fire him based on his performance, but they got him because he was often late in submitting his expense accounts, something which would have been overlooked for any other employee.

 

[BigBoy99]

But eventually they'll find an excuse to get rid of you. When I was working for the title insurance company, a proposed transaction, in my opinion based on some 30 years of experience, was a claim waiting to happen, and I refused to authorize insuring it. At first, the higher ups backed me up. But the ticked off settlement agent kept going up the ladder and eventually somebody caved in and cut me off at the knees. When the grandparent company made some new acquisitions and was integrating the new companies, guess who got fired?

Remember - No good deed goes unpunished!