Glad I was Packing My 442

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Old cop

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At 3 AM this morning I was walking into the local hospital's ER b/c my wife had just been transported w/a serious case of flu (treated & released thank goodnes) when I heard someone holler at me from a distance. I turned and could barely see a dark figure about 20' away ask me for a cigarette. After 30 years as a LEO I believe this individual was looking for an easy mark. While I am a big guy, I'm well past 60 & walk with a cane so I may look like someone who will not fight back.

My hand was already in my pocket on my 442 and I pulled it out and put it behind my leg, a trick I learned from my LEO days. I told the guy in a very stern voice I could not help him and continued my journey into the ER unacosted. Nothing more happened.

When I got inside I ran into a sergeant I know and told him what happened. They never did find the guy and I'm glad things turned out the way they did, but that 442 was a very welcome companion early this morning.

Interestingly enough the hospital had a sign posted on every entrance prohibiting firearms. I'm really glad I ignored it.
 
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442 at the ready

Hey Old Cop, I too am glad your situation turned out to be a non-incident. I often wonder why they have signs posted to dis-allow self protection if they are not able to guarantee your safety. Good for you Sir!!!!!!!!!
 
Glad you're both safe. I took my wife to the ER 3 times last year --- usually in the late evening (migraines) but we'd never get out of there before 2:00 AM. I always had my Model 38 in my jeans pocket.
 
My wife is a RN in a trauma unit and they have placed it in lock down at least 200 times since I met her in 2008. If the thug doesn't meet their maker the first time, the shooter/s attempt to finish the job, especially if the news reports them as being alive.

I don't agree with the prohibited weapons signs at hospitals, these thugs have no care for my wife and her friends. Three years ago she was missed by a stray bullet from the above instance. She told me that if she were allowed a small revolver, she could have ended the fire fight and ultimately that mans life.

My recommendation is to always carry a small two shot pocket pistol if you can't carry a sub compact or full size. I do!
 
One has to do what they have to do.

Since I feel I am a responsible CCP owner, I also feel no conflict carrying in stores with gun free signs. I prefer to feel safe rather than to rely on a store greeter or other employee taking down a BG... (note sarcasm)

Seems the hospital was screaming for a BG to try something on a potential victim. Reminds me of Chicago and their gun free zones.

Signs can't stop acts of violence... they invite it...
 
I'd think a former cop would know better than to pull a gun on someone for only asking for a cigarette. You've never had someone ask for something before? Where was the threat of death or bodily harm?

Had that been me I think I'd consider filing aggravated assault charges.
 
SMSgt said:
I'd think a former cop would know better than to pull a gun on someone for only asking for a cigarette. You've never had someone ask for something before? Where was the threat of death or bodily harm?

Had that been me I think I'd consider filing aggravated assault charges.
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You might want to read the original post again. No one saw the weapon, no harm, no foul.

I wasn't there so I don't know the specifics of the threat he detected, but the fact that he's an old cop - and not a dead cop - makes me think his 6th sense is probably well developed.
 
SMSgt said:
I'd think a former cop would know better than to pull a gun on someone for only asking for a cigarette. You've never had someone ask for something before? Where was the threat of death or bodily harm?

Had that been me I think I'd consider filing aggravated assault charges.
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I'm going to file "didn't read closely enough" charges. ;)

Under the circumstances, you'd be right if Old cop had brandished; he did not, as clearly stated.

Don't know if you've spent much time around E.R.s -- always some bad customers either in them or lurking nearby, especially at night.

I'd've done the same.
 
Old cop said:
My hand was already in my pocket on my 442 and I pulled it out and put it behind my leg, a trick I learned from my LEO days. I told the guy in a very stern voice I could not help him and continued my journey into the ER unacosted. Nothing more happened.
Click to expand...

Well done, sir. Thanks for sharing your story and how you handled it. Glad it ended well.
 
Good for you. And it's not always the humanoid types. Two summers ago, my wife and I were out for a walk ( we live in a rural area and I always carry either a 637 or .380 when we go for long walks)and were approached in mid-day by a really mangey, drooling coyote. I shot him at about 25 feet and he ran off. Later my neighbor killed it, and it was suspected of being rabid.
 
Hill_Country said:
You might want to read the original post again. No one saw the weapon, no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...


Based on that theory, it's okay if I rob a bank and get away with it if no one got harmed and no one saw my weapon. I think teh FBI maight have a different view of that.

In FL, a gun "in hand" is in use. He therefore "used" a firearm against an unverified/unconfirmed threat. I see a lot of things I think are suspicious, but I don't pull out a gun every time I do. He drew his weapon...
 
In my profession (minister) I sadly spend more time than I'd like to in hospitals and ER's. Since obtaining my CHP a couple of months ago I always carry when visiting hospitals.

Old Cop, you were wise to carry and even wiser to be suspicious. I spent 14 weeks serving as a full-time intern chaplain at a large hospital in a suburb of Los Angeles...I've seen this kind of thing many times. There were actually 3 or 4 people who would hang out at the ER entrance at different times of the evening to beg for money. A couple of times someone someone leaving the ER got mugged. It got so bad the hospital had to place a security guard outside the door to run the beggars off and keep any potential muggers at bay.
 
SMSgt said:
Based on that theory, it's okay if I rob a bank and get away with it if no one got harmed and no one saw my weapon. I think teh FBI maight have a different view of that.
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Apologies, but that's false logic. No one is stipulating that doing no harm and not getting caught would legitimize bank robbery or anything like it. That's extreme in the absurd.

Again, brandishing -- menacing with a weapon, holstered or in hand -- if there is no reasonable threat, is an offense and rightly so. OP didn't brandish.

In FL, a gun "in hand" is in use. He therefore "used" a firearm against an unverified/unconfirmed threat. I see a lot of things I think are suspicious, but I don't pull out a gun every time I do. He drew his weapon...
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Strictly speaking, readying your weapon out of view is quite different from drawing it, which implies in view and aimed.
 
SMSgt
Are you serious right now?? Or just busting chops? WELL past 60 and walking with a cane, approached by a man asking for a cigarette at 0300?? . I would say he was totally justified
1SG
 
Last edited:
MP1SG said:
SMSgt
Are you serious right now?? Or just busting chops? WELL past 60 and walking with a cane, approached by a man asking for a cigarette at 0300?? . I would say he was totally justified.
1SG
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I agree ABSOLUTELY! Anywhere inside of 21 ft is the "Kill Zone". In this zone the bad guy can close the distance & stab/assault you BEFORE one can draw from concealment and shoot said bad guy. SMSgt, look up "Tueller Drill"!
 
To the person who suggested that I brandished (my gun was completely hidden) and overreacted I can only say I relied on my 30 yrs LEO experience. The hospital is in a bad part of town and I was completely isolated and vunerable. Normally I come to the aid of anyone asking for help but those words are almost always a preamble to a street robbery (part of my career was spent as a robbery Det.).

My purpose for posting was simply share what happened and to encourage members to carry responsibly, not to do what I did. My handicap leaves me unable to run so I simply prepared to defend myself if I could not get to the building safely. As has been suggested this kind of activity has been a problem in and around the ER here.
 
SMSgt said:
Based on that theory, it's okay if I rob a bank and get away with it if no one got harmed and no one saw my weapon. I think teh FBI maight have a different view of that.

In FL, a gun "in hand" is in use. He therefore "used" a firearm against an unverified/unconfirmed threat. I see a lot of things I think are suspicious, but I don't pull out a gun every time I do. He drew his weapon...
Click to expand...

I think everyone is being overly polite to you.

So I will say it.

You are really making a fool of yourself criticizing a cop who has made it to retirement age.

Just think of what he has seen in all of those years. And hiding it behind his leg is no more threatening nor brandishing than having his hand on it in his jacket pocket because in both cases it was out of sight.
 
badge 851 said:
I agree ABSOLUTELY! Anywhere inside of 21 ft is the "Kill Zone". In this zone the bad guy can close the distance & stab/assault you BEFORE one can draw from concealment and shoot said bad guy. SMSgt, look up "Tueller Drill"!
Click to expand...

I spent 28+ years in the NYPD. You are ABSOLUTELY correct and so was OldCop. He did exactly what his training conditioned him to do. That's how Young cops get to be Old cops!
 
Old cop said:
At 3 AM this morning I was walking into the local hospital's ER b/c my wife had just been transported w/a serious case of flu (treated & released thank goodnes) when I heard someone holler at me from a distance. I turned and could barely see a dark figure about 20' away ask me for a cigarette. After 30 years as a LEO I believe this individual was looking for an easy mark. While I am a big guy, I'm well past 60 & walk with a cane so I may look like someone who will not fight back.

My hand was already in my pocket on my 442 and I pulled it out and put it behind my leg, a trick I learned from my LEO days. I told the guy in a very stern voice I could not help him and continued my journey into the ER unacosted. Nothing more happened.

When I got inside I ran into a sergeant I know and told him what happened. They never did find the guy and I'm glad things turned out the way they did, but that 442 was a very welcome companion early this morning.

Interestingly enough the hospital had a sign posted on every entrance prohibiting firearms. I'm really glad I ignored it.
Click to expand...

Well done, Old cop!!
 
To the OP, GOOD for you!! Cigarettes are bad for one's health. Asking somebody for one at 3:00 a.m. from the shadows is also bad for one's health. Your quick thinking probably saved you from a trip to the ER.

I had a similar experience about four summers ago in the mountains. Four fine examples of redneck white trash asked me for a cigarette and then a match. They were looking for trouble, and found it. It worked out just fine, like your incident did.

I hope your wife is doing well too.
 
This is another example of political correctness going beyond reason. Old Cop was sharing an experience that I for one think is a smart way to help me live beyond my 72 years of age. I will keep this in mind if ever in a similar situation. The smoker didn't know Old Cop was armed and Old Cop was in a better position to defend himself. I have a carry permit to protect myself and if I don't take it out and flash it, I don't see how anyone is harmed or even inconvenienced. Old Cop did the right thing and if he didn't post the event here no one would ever know it happened. How is that against the law?
 
SMSgt said:
Based on that theory, it's okay if I rob a bank and get away with it if no one got harmed and no one saw my weapon. I think teh FBI maight have a different view of that.

In FL, a gun "in hand" is in use. He therefore "used" a firearm against an unverified/unconfirmed threat. I see a lot of things I think are suspicious, but I don't pull out a gun every time I do. He drew his weapon...
Click to expand...

Unbelievable! 99 out of 100 muggers start a conversation with the victim in order to close the distance and better size them up. Most ask for something to get the victim to relax and let their guard down, and yes, most of the time they prey on the elderly. Actually, what happened at the hospital is EXACTLY WHY WE CARRY! Its called self defense, protection of ourself and our loved ones. Good job Old Cop. SMSGT, get a life!
 
I am pretty sure SMSgt, Just posted that to get a response (Trolling). He has only responded one time to the 12 replies to his obsurd reply to OLDCOP.
 
Im overly surprised at the negativity from this thread. I havent been on here long enough to know any of you, but from Old Cops posts he seems like he is well educated and trained in safety and experienced as well. It truly is a shame but these days one cant be to careful. I will help anybody I can at any time, but asking me for a cigarette doesnt make me feel obliged to do a good deed. My town is maybe 8 miles, and a far cry from 10,000 people in population. My dad has had a guy try to rob his store twice while at work, one incident involved a guy asking for money for an alternator so he could get his family home. Dad took time out of working to go fix the car and buy his alternator rather than giving him money but the guy ran off before he could make it back from the shop. One of his employees was asked for some change for the drink machine at 4am after his shift. He reached into his pocket and was beaten nearly to death and robbed. Protecting your own life, is also protecting your families lives.
 
Old cop, you done good and I applaud you. I just bet there have been similar incidents that many on the forum could relate. No shots fired. No firearm brandished, but the presence of a weapon gave you the peace of mind and reassurance you needed to act in a reasonable, authoritative manner.

I also think it needs to be shouted from the rooftop that you had a 442, a lowly j-frame with "only" five shots with which to protect yourself. I have tried to carry 1911s, K-frames, N-frames, Browning HPs, and several others. The only thing I will be sure I have every time is a j-frame. Sometimes I even carry two of them. Somebody needs to erect a monument somewhere to the lowly j-frame. It has provided peace of mind for a lot of us for a lot of years.
 
Old Cop: You did EXACTLY what your years of training and instincts told you. You saved yourself, and prevented some scroat from employing his nefarious schemes. While I am certain that you would have shot (and killed) this fool, i'm sure you were grateful that it wasn't required.

To hell with the "gun free zone." (It lets the criminally inclined know that they have an "open season" declared on the people seen as easy prey.

Scott
 
Old cop said:
To the person who suggested that I brandished (my gun was completely hidden) and overreacted I can only say I relied on my 30 yrs LEO experience. The hospital is in a bad part of town and I was completely isolated and vunerable. Normally I come to the aid of anyone asking for help but those words are almost always a preamble to a street robbery (part of my career was spent as a robbery Det.).

My purpose for posting was simply share what happened and to encourage members to carry responsibly, not to do what I did. My handicap leaves me unable to run so I simply prepared to defend myself if I could not get to the building safely. As has been suggested this kind of activity has been a problem in and around the ER here.
Click to expand...

There have been a couple of references on this thread about hospitals being gun free zones.

I know what the law is for the rest of us, but wouldn't a retired LEO with a carry permit be an exception the the law that bans weapons in hospitals?

It really is a dumb law anyway. As you know, lots of really bad people inside as well as outside. Nut cases, felons, wife beaters, stalkers, etc.

I never have understood why it is my right to keep from being killed in only certain places, but a drunk who wants to kill me and whom I can stop by whatever means necessary on the street, has a license to kill me in a hospital or in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
 
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