Glock doesn't have a takedown lever other than dry fire accident. Not me

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Dry fire mistake when taking down a Glock, hence why I love my M&P, poor guy

Jrask

The picture is a reminder that handling a weapon should never become second nature.

I know no one but me has ever found themselves behind the wheel of an automobile and could not remember driving a section of the road you are on or what you had for dinner last night. It happens and that is why I never clean my weapon on an empty stomach or right before an intimate evening with my wife.

Russ
 
We can all repeat the gun safety rules as long as we'd like, but the fact is we ARE human, and humans make mistakes, and the Glock design is less forgiving of human error than other guns.
.

Yes, humans make mistakes. But a subtraction mistake you make in your check book isn't the same as a mistake you make with a firearm or a chainsaw.
If a person is prone to making mistakes maybe they shouldn't be messing with firearms or sharp objects.
Because that kind of mistake could be fatal.

Don't know how many owners manual I've read that state: Always Make sure the firearm is unloaded before handling / cleaning.
I guess pulling the trigger is one way to find out if it loaded or not ,,, :D
 
Blame the shooter, not the gun. My training with a semi was that it's not unloaded until you lock the slide back and LOOK down thru the ejection port and the grip. After you are certain that you see nothing in the ejection port and grip you then direct your gaze to the chamber and barrel. If the chamber appears clear you can then either take a penlight and shine it down the barrel or drop a pencil into the muzzle end of the barrel so that it can hit the breech face. Do that and you can consider that firearm to be empty as long as you keep the firearm and magazine separated.

BTW, I prefer a Streamlight Stylus penlight because you can poke it in the chamber and shine the light thru the barrel to light up anything in the area that is "safe to destroy". This can be a real timesaver at the range if you think you may have shot a squib into the barrel.

Besides liking this post, I just wanted to say it is the fact that members here on this forum actually share things about firearm safety, like the above, that new shooters like me need to know, makes it a great web site.

This suggestion about a penlight for a range session is a great idea.

Thank you very much.
 
Dry fire mistake when taking down a Glock, hence why I love my M&P, poor guy

This is also a picture of a hand with a bullet wound. ON THE INTERNET! Just like the picture of the Kaboom'd 44mag with "Chinese" ammo or the pictures of guns form someone's basement that get attributed to everyone from Heston to that rock and roll guy. For all I know one idiot could have been passing a cocked 38spl to another idiot who upon grabbing the gun put his finger on the trigger.

However, assuming it's REAL and TRUE... 1) the M&P can be taken apart the same way. 2 ) IF you FIRST dropped the mag then checked to make sure there is no round chambered then this won't happen. If you lock open the slide and look into the chamber only to see it empty then with the same open slide look from the front to confirm that it is empty then a round cannot magically appear 10 seconds later when you take the slide off.

In 5 years of daily Glock carry I have yet to hurt myself or anyone else when taking it apart. People make a bigger issue out of it then it really is. It doesn't matter how many levers you have if you don't first check to make sure that it's empty.

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Blame the shooter, not the gun.

Blame the shooter, not the gun.

This is so important he posted it twice. What does the anti-gun crowd say constantly? Guns are dangerous. NO! {Insert appropriate adjective here} people with guns are dangerous.

Appropriate adjectives include:
Lazy
Careless
Untrained
Ignorant
Stupid
All of the above
 
Stupid people are dangerous. Just a few weeks ago, a man killed himself at the gun range. It is not 100% sure that it wasn't suicide, but by all indications it was just a tragic stupid, avoidable accident. For whatever reason, he was checking the gun and pointed at himself while examining it and with his finger on the trigger it went off. I went to the range the next day, not even knowing what had occurred the day before and the range master told me all about it. He said it "could" of been suicide, but why go to the range to commit suicide? It wasn't a rental gun. If it were, then I might be inclined to agree. At least posting these things helps to remind us of how careful we need to be when handling loaded and check unloaded weapons. Never assume it is unloaded.
 
This is so important he posted it twice. What does the anti-gun crowd say constantly? Guns are dangerous. NO! {Insert appropriate adjective here} people with guns are dangerous.

Appropriate adjectives include:
Lazy
Careless
Untrained
Ignorant
Stupid
All of the above

+1. IMO, there is no such thing as a "Dry Fire Accident" or "Accidental Discharge". Only negligent discharges. And placing your hand or any other body part in front of the muzzle while pulling the trigger on any firearm is just plain stupid.

Wonder if the guy learned anything?
 
Blaming that on the lack of a take down lever is like blaming a fork for obsesity.
Some people just shouldn't own guns.

I had a command officer do that one time and blow our new vibrasonic cleaner's brains out. He then wrote a three page report on how it wasn't his fault. Amazing.
 
While the injury of an individual is regretable I believe the person handling the firearm should assume full responsibility for:
1) not checking for the presence of a round i the chamber
2) having his finger on the trigger
3) placing pof himself in front of the muzzle.
These are the three cardinal sins of gun handling.
 
Of Jeff Cooper's now universal Four Rules for Safe Gunhandling, it seems to me that the person shown in Post 1 violated numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4.

I do not believe the Glock has a "design flaw" as a result of having to dry fire the unloaded weapon to allow the slide assembly to pass over the cruciform in order to separate the upper from the lower.

Designing around the inattentive user always presents serious challenges, and it seems that an inattentive person will always figure out a way to blast themselves provided they have a working weapon.

Disassembly of a Glock is completely safe provided you UNLOAD it before beginning the process.

Additional safety measures which should be observed when disassembling the Glock would include not putting any part of your body in front of the muzzle, pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, making sure you know that no part of your body is the "backstop" in case you negligently fire the weapon during the process, and making sure your finger isn't on the trigger until you are ready to properly "dry fire" for disassembly purposes.

Each one of these are fully applicable to disassembly of any weapon, not just a Glock.

If one cannot operate equipment safely and correctly, one should not be allowed equipment.

Other safety features that are debatable on firearms are things such as magazine safeties, which are nearly always thought of as a bad idea for various reasons, even though there seem to be a great many people who cannot remember that removing the magazine ALWAYS comes before clearing the chamber. Even a safety lever, which decades ago was a mainstay in self-loader design, is now out of favor except for the 1911 and the P35. Beginning with the West German Police pistol trials in the 1970s, it has now become almost universal doctrine that there should be no safety lever which someone might forget to deactivate in a time of need. Of course, what they meant to say was, "we hire a bunch of people who know not the first thing about guns and we need a really simple mechanism because Europeans have no experience with guns of any kind before they come to our inadequate training program, and besides that, we don't teach much about guns because even our instructors don't know that much, because guns are only grudgingly allowed and we discourage their use in any circumstance because we are really all anti-gun." :)

In any event, it seems that America is, not surprisingly, still a mere 40 or so years behind the "socialist state of Europe" - I mean the European Union. :)

The real problem is consumer protection laws. The poor guy pictured in Post 1 would not even be here if there were no such laws as his "line" would have died out by now left to their own devices, as someone in his genetic tree would have bled to death from sticking their fingers into a fan, or been electrocuted changing the bulb in the fixture above the tub while taking a bath or by some other means.

The results of making machines "idiot proof" is the proliferation of idiots.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
 
Agreed. They just happen more often with Glocks. Sure, accidents are preventable, but how many here have banged their thumb with a hammer? Gotten into a fender bender? Try as we might, we are NOT perfect. Truth is, some of the most experienced shooters get so suprememly confident that they screw up.

Pulling the trigger to disassemble a firearm is a bad idea. I had an M&P Shield. Never pulled the trigger to strip it.

Are there statistics that back that up? Not trying to argue just trying to determine if it indeed is a fact.:)
 
I agree with the basic premise of the OP. We all know the basic rules of firearms safety. There is never any excuse for pulling the trigger while your hand or any other body part is downrange of the muzzle. That said, I can understand how a ND could happen in this situation. It's never happened to me but I can see how a person might have a brain fart and forget to clear the chamber before dry firing the weapon. I have 2 Glocks and I love them both but having to dry fire them to release the slide from the frame always gives me the willies even though I always check, double check and triple check to make sure the gun is cleared before I do it. Sometimes the simplicity of a Glock can actually work against it. This is one of those times. My M&P isn't terribly complicated to field strip but it does require a little more thought than a Glock, which I could field strip in my sleep. With the M&P you have to drop the magazine, lock the slide open, remove the frame tool from the grip and then flip down the sear lever and the takedown lever. And, as has already been mentioned, you don't have to dry fire it. All those extra steps pretty much insure that there is no way you can attempt to remove the slide with a round in the chamber. It isn't completely idiot proof but a good bit more so than a Glock.
 
Stuff happens. Mostly when we are careless, overconfident or distracted. My main personal sidearm is a Glock, I clear it three times and point it somewhere where I could cover up a hole with my mediocre woodworking skills before I drop the striker.

And by clear it, I mean look at it and think about what I am seeing.

Back in the 70's I was in the AF and in the armory during shift change when the mid's security flight was coming in and clearing their M16s. A line troop forgot to drop his mag, racked the bolt and fired a round into the clearing barrel. Then he did it again. Then his flight chief screamed at him to stop, took the weapon and punched the mag release but forgot to rack the bolt so he fired a third round into the barrel. Of course that ended it but by then there were probably 40 guys who had lost some hearing.

Seems like once you start screwing up you have to hit every step on the way down for some reason.
 
If he was dry firing to take down, then he DID intend to pull the trigger.
Yes, he intended to pull the trigger, but not to shoot the gun. There is a difference.

1) the M&P can be taken apart the same way.
2 ) IF you FIRST dropped the mag then checked to make sure there is no round chambered then this won't happen.
The difference is that a Glock has to have the trigger pulled to take the slide off. The M&P does not.

I have seen at least two and heard of many more where the process gets reversed; rack slide then remove mag. The obvious flaw here is that while the round in the chamber is ejected, another is loaded if the mag was not removed first.

OK, maybe it's not a design flaw, but the M&P is better. I cringe when I hear of guys who say they always pull the trigger to take the slide off. Will it cause an ND? No, that is not certain. But, it certainly does increase the chance. If you always use the take down lever, then it is impossible to accidentally fire an M&P while removing the slide.
 
Yes, he intended to pull the trigger, but not to shoot the gun. There is a difference.

The difference is that a Glock has to have the trigger pulled to take the slide off. The M&P does not.

I have seen at least two and heard of many more where the process gets reversed; rack slide then remove mag. The obvious flaw here is that while the round in the chamber is ejected, another is loaded if the mag was not removed first.

OK, maybe it's not a design flaw, but the M&P is better. I cringe when I hear of guys who say they always pull the trigger to take the slide off. Will it cause an ND? No, that is not certain. But, it certainly does increase the chance. If you always use the take down lever, then it is impossible to accidentally fire an M&P while removing the slide.

I treat it like dry fire practice. Everyone does it, nothing wrong with it....just make sure the gun is empty first

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