Gov owner observations

[Whistlebritches]

Interesting. Some will recall, when the 357 came out, some guys were reaming out their heavy frame 38 specials, to 357.

Little doubt, a few of them came apart.

Bullet speed, from a 454, out of a 3 inch tube, must rate right up there with a 45 blackpowder Colt load, but there may be some new secret powder, I am not aware of.

One of the common ideas about guns and ammo, from relaoders. "this is likely safe, the books are always low, to satisfy the lawyers"

Perhaps true to a degree, perhaps not.

The question may be, did the necktie wearing guy, who designed the gun, use the right steel, in what ever gun, previously designed for a "low" pressure round?

A thicker chamber wall, does add strength, but common carbon steel, thick or not, may not stand the pressure a thin wall, properly treated 4140 steel will.

I would love to learn how many guns, came apart on Keith, when he was on the learning curve about the 44 Mag.

He and Ackley both, had worked at the Ogden ammo depot, so may have been more "science", behind some of their findings, than many think.

A lot of the stories, try to make both men, sound like ignorant farm boys, but I dont think that was the case. Neither were fools.

I have never been the guy, chasing the nub nose magnum big bore craze.

My 4 inch 29, is as much fun as I want to have, with a 240 hard cast. Sure, some of these new hand cannons, weigh a bit more, a video, might show a lot of closed eyes during their firing.

Rare is the shooter, that can shoot the magnum rounds, as accurately, as they can a plain old K38, with wadcutter.

But the big ones keep the bean pot boiling, and thats the American way full speed ahead, darn the torpedos.

They are all fun for sure!

 

[tennexplorer]

But I think there needs to be a revival with modern bullets for the .45 Winchester Magnum. A .45 Winchester Magnum revolver could use moon clipped .45 ACP as a sub load.
I believe this concept would surpass any 10mm revolver included those that may be reamed out to 10mm Magnum.

Well there's this one.

A 25 with a 625 cylinder cut for moonclips. I use Starline brass. Winchester factory brass won't fit the moonclips. Handloads only. NO FACTORY LOADS.

 

[Whistlebritches]

So we are talking "hot loading" the 625, with a 45 Colt?
When 25-5 came out decades back, I thought the jury was out on hot loads in the Colt case?

Was that because of the possible ballon head Colt cases? Or cylinder strength? Or both?

These new 625 different? I know there is one company doing all sorts of custom conversions.

Not trying to start a urinating contest, just trying to get caught up on some of the newer ideas, and conventions of handguns.

I have a 625, love it, but wish they had chambered it to allow use, even if clips were not found.

My old 1917, does allow the gun to make noise, with no clips, but of course a stick needs found, or strong fingernails too reload.

I did discover, in their desire for light pull, I got occasional DA misfires, until cranking in the strain screw, on the 625.

I learned that trick way back, when the popular trick was clipping springs. Just dont do it on a J frame, as hard primers do exist.

 

[10Mad]

I have one and really like it. I got one when they were first released. If you match the ammo to the application it is a fine machine. Mine is very accurate with 45 ACP. When I got it the various 410 ammo was plentiful and I tried all of them. I can attest the buckshot loads are serious.

 

[Whistlebritches]

I have one and really like it. I got one when they were first released. If you match the ammo to the application it is a fine machine. Mine is very accurate with 45 ACP. When I got it the various 410 ammo was plentiful and I tried all of them. I can attest the buckshot loads are serious.

Interesting observations. I see quite a lot of difference, with the Gov, and ACP, with my Mickulek 625. I mean the Mick gun holds the ten ring off the bench, easy, at 25 yards, while the Gov closer to the outside edge of the black.

I doubt the three inch barrel, and rather light weight, compared to the Mick gun, offers X ring advantages.

I only had about 20 LC cases, so until I scrounge some more, more serious testing will be delayed.

A Colt mid range load, behind a Sierra 240 HP, shot considerably better than the ACP in the Gov. At least I could see some grouping.

Neither as good as the Mick gun with ACP loads though. I presume again, I think safely, its that "free bore" gap, until the forcing cone actually makes contact.

The Gov for sure needs more work, to ascertain.

I doubt the perp across the average living room, would notice a larger group.

I am happy to note your comments about the 410 buck loads. I just thought maybe I was getting old.

Wait, a minute, I am getting old....

 

[Whistlebritches]

new experiment findings

Not trying to begin any urinating contests, just finally got some loads concocted, and finally figured out how to use my brand new Labradar!

So, with WWAA 410 factory skeet loads, 1/2 ounce, it read 611 fps. 8 1/2 shot size

With a Lyman book load, 1/2 ounce of number 5''s, ran 657 and 667 fps

Same powder, but with 1/2 ounce of number 2 shot, gave 672 and 764 fps.

Probably a lot slower than commonly advertised, well....thats nothing new.

Patterns you ask? From 3 and a half steps, a realistic katy bar the door distance, all them were about 16 x 16, nice even patterns.

85 holes,, for the number 5, and 45 holes for the number 2 shot. Near 100 percent on paper, both shot sizes

Penetration you ask? I had many pairs of old levis and wranglers laying in the closet floor, for some reason, they keep shrinking every year or so.....

I cut 5 inch long pieces out of each leg, and put in a piece of common corrugated cardboard, into each "pocket". Remember, the original seams make it into a tube, just staple or glue the open ends.

6 pockets, back to back making an assembly, of maybe an inch and a quarter thick. So, one assembly, is needed for each penetration test.

I then taped them to the cardboard backing of the target stand, around 3.5 foot distance.

So the number 5 shot penetrated 4 "layers" of material and cardboard, and some dents in layer 5

With number 2 shot, it penetrated 5 layers, and dented number 6.

Do a study on how fast energy increases, in shot size, its amazing.

One must remember, any woven material really slows bullets down. The weave density, is what makes kevlar work.

Funny, they do those expansion tests using the fancy jello, but never dress up the "jello"....

Similar to the bullets that dont penetrate an elk, they rarely come out looking like the pictures.

The numbers show an interesting thing. In the above velocity results, and, IF all the shot in each shot, hit what ever malcriado, trying to do us harm, the energy ON TARGET, would be similar as an entry level 44 special, using 200 grain bullets would give.

A bit over, 200 Foot pounds of energy.

If the ner do well, is wearing a vest, kneecaps, and rather high hold, might make good aiming points too.

We tend to forget, no rules exist, if someone is showing deadly intent against us. We might be nervous too, and even half a pattern, on target, might persuade the attacker to reverse. Better than a close miss, with a 44

All thoughts welcome. Just dont imply, that I am a politician...

 

[CajunBass]

I believe, that was why they color coded shells back in the day, guys were dropping 20s, into a 12, and they slide down, and smoke and fire soon happems

That was the exact reason. I think it was Federal who did that. I don't think anyone else did, except I don't think I've ever bought a 20 ga that wasn't yellow. But it's been a long time since I bought any shotgun shells, and there are manufacturers I never heard of now. Back in the day, there was just the big three.

 

[22hipower]

That was the exact reason. I think it was Federal who did that. I don't think anyone else did, except I don't think I've ever bought a 20 ga that wasn't yellow. But it's been a long time since I bought any shotgun shells, and there are manufacturers I never heard of now. Back in the day, there was just the big three.

Ok, this comment has absolutely nothing to do with a Governor or 410 loads but I was triggered by the 20 ga yellow shell comment. I was at the local Cabelas last Friday picking up a few things to prepare for dove season opening this Friday, and there was not a single 20 ga. shell, of any color, available for sale. Quite a few 12s, but no 20s on the shelves. I thought the ammo drought was over. . . . .

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[rosewood]

My wife gave me one for Christmas. It goes with me on my morning walks in SW Mississippi. I know how quickly birdshot spreads out of it. How on earth did you chronograph birdshot without damaging your crony?

Hugh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Per instructions with my Chrony, you shoot shotgun at about 2' away. Has always worked for me.

Rosewood

 

[rosewood]

I bought a Governor on a whim, and it sat in the safe for a couple years before I sold it. .410 ammo is not easy to come by, and when you do find it, it is expensive. Shot patterns are horrendous, and there are far better platforms for .45 Auto and .45 Colt, IMO. Just for fun before I sold it, I checked to see if a Buffalo Bore .454 Casull round would fit in the chamber. It did. No, I did not fire it! I imagine somebody has, or will, though.

I have the Taurus. I also have the Raging Bull .454. The cylinder wall of the judge are quite thin especially when comparing to the RB 454. My engineering mind looks at those thin walls and says to not ever shoot anything out of it other than SAAMI max pressure 45 colt or .410. I can't speak for the Governor.

Rosewood

 

[Whistlebritches]

Per instructions with my Chrony, you shoot shotgun at about 2' away. Has always worked for me.

Rosewood

With my previous Oehler I cut up some wood covers, and covered the front of the first screen. I then held high, puckering my backside, and the devil never came calling.

The Labradar, the muzzle is in front of the unit, though about 6 inches to the side, or top.

The 33 P, had worked for years, but living in the landing and takeoff zones of NAS Fallon jets very common not that high in their landing and takeoff, the Oehler, was about as consistent as a a flat tire, and I got the Labradar, which uses a bit different tech.

All I can think of, is that the radars changed. Another example, certain areas, cell phones go deader than hogans goat, then cross what ever hidden line, they work fine.

Oehler kept suggesting "try it some place else", considering Navy
Airspace here, I would have had to drive several hours.

The Labradar seems near 100 % so far, in not mis reading shots.

 

[Whistlebritches]

Ok, this comment has absolutely nothing to do with a Governor or 410 loads but I was triggered by the 20 ga yellow shell comment. I was at the local Cabelas last Friday picking up a few things to prepare for dove season opening this Friday, and there was not a single 20 ga. shell, of any color, available for sale. Quite a few 12s, but no 20s on the shelves. I thought the ammo drought was over. . . . .

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I see lower prices here, on 9 and 45 ACP, and tons of 22 rimfire, at 6 and 1/2 cents each, for the tin can stuff. But you are correct, the ammo drought is far from over. Better than it was, but with small pistol primers, at near 10 bucks a hundred, and powders 40 to 45 bucks a lb, I feel, for the young shooters, with a couple kids to feed.

It took them a long time to realize limiting the ammo supply, was a key to arms control. And red, is near as guilty as blue, on continuing that tactic.

 

[Joker18]

I would hope no one tries to shoot a 454 Casull out of a S&W Governor. I have one and the hottest I use is the Buffalo Bore standard pressure Outdoorsman with a hard cast bullet.
No doubt some one has fired One or more of the HOT .45 Colt ammo made by Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, Cor-Bon, or the Hunting Shack.
Not sure how the Scandium frame will handle it nor the cylinder. The problem isn't the .45 Colt case, the modern ones are very strong. The problem is pressure.
Some of the hot +P+ ammo now available generates more pressure than a factory proof round.
One may get lucky once, shooting the high pressure ammo through the Governor, but I certainly wouldn't try it!

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Interesting. Some will recall, when the 357 came out, some guys were reaming out their heavy frame 38 specials, to 357.

Little doubt, a few of them came apart.

Bullet speed, from a 454, out of a 3 inch tube, must rate right up there with a 45 blackpowder Colt load, but there may be some new secret powder, I am not aware of.

One of the common ideas about guns and ammo, from relaoders. "this is likely safe, the books are always low, to satisfy the lawyers"

Perhaps true to a degree, perhaps not.

The question may be, did the necktie wearing guy, who designed the gun, use the right steel, in what ever gun, previously designed for a "low" pressure round?

A thicker chamber wall, does add strength, but common carbon steel, thick or not, may not stand the pressure a thin wall, properly treated 4140 steel will.

I would love to learn how many guns, came apart on Keith, when he was on the learning curve about the 44 Mag.

He and Ackley both, had worked at the Ogden ammo depot, so may have been more "science", behind some of their findings, than many think.

A lot of the stories, try to make both men, sound like ignorant farm boys, but I dont think that was the case. Neither were fools.

I have never been the guy, chasing the nub nose magnum big bore craze.

My 4 inch 29, is as much fun as I want to have, with a 240 hard cast. Sure, some of these new hand cannons, weigh a bit more, a video, might show a lot of closed eyes during their firing.

Rare is the shooter, that can shoot the magnum rounds, as accurately, as they can a plain old K38, with wadcutter.

But the big ones keep the bean pot boiling, and thats the American way full speed ahead, darn the torpedos.

They are all fun for sure!

My 38/44 was reamed for 357 when I got it That's all I've shot in it for years......No worry's on that............But others talked about on here.......RUN Forrest RUN

 

[old pipefitter]

I bought a used one about 6 weeks ago for a decent price at my LGS. It had one of those horrendous extended Cylinder release huge levers on it. Been replaced. I haven't shot it yet. I buy ammo when I can find it. ( Expensive to say the least)

 

[Whistlebritches]

My 38/44 was reamed for 357 when I got it That's all I've shot in it for years......No worry's on that............But others talked about on here.......RUN Forrest RUN

I see no problems with a guy being fee to do what ever they care too... we all at times just to forget to accept what ever results may happen.

I think even you would agree, an large frame, built for the then new 38/44 round, might be a bit different strength than an early K frame.

I have had a colt DS come apart dramatically, I suspect it had been in a fire, and reblued, and the max 2400 load, filled the case, so wasnt not two loads in the case, and the other cases all weighed out correctly.

A buddy blew up his encore, with two loads down. Point being, he had a small abount of fear, for some time, every time he pulled a trigger, same as did I.

I certainly hope in an early post, did anyone think I thought shooting what ever round goes into the chamber, of a Gov, a good idea. Hot loads 45 commercial handloads, have been available for years, as most here realize. For the Contender, or the Ruger Blackhawk.

I had a M25-5 way back, I saw no need to try to imitate 44 mag loads, even with modern 45 Colt brass.

Even if a guy did hot load for the Gov, most of the "heat" blows out down range, in that length a barrel.

Some guys think "magnum" anything is cool. But without barrel length, generally just the flash around the muzzle is brighter, but little velocity gain.

Would be little practical reason, to hot load, in a Gov at least. Maybe in one of the competition guns, if thats ones choice of fun.

 

[Whistlebritches]

Back to Gov testing, I finally scored a deal on several boxes of WW and Rem 410, 2.5 loads at a show in Carson, the other day. I had an old sketchy pre 64 M70 featherweight, stock that I had inherited someplace, I left with the shells, he left with the stock.

I drilled a small hole, dumped out the 6s, and replaced with 210 grains of number 2, (1/2 ounce) count about 35 as I recall. Previous testing showed a nice pattern, maybe 12 inches wide, at three steps.

A guy could flatten the shot a bit, if the goal was a few more pellets.

My Labradar, sometimes give me the middle finger, reading shot loads, but I finally scored one at 999 FPS, or 465 foot pounds energy, on target.

I had made some packets, using old jeans cutoff legs, then layerd standard cardboard, with 8 pieces, sandwiched in the legs, thus 4 layers of denim total. Thickness about 2 inches total.

The number 2s penetrated the whole packet. Previous testing with 7.5 shot, penetrated only 6 layers of cardboard.

One can presume similar velocity. I have never seen any real life velocity testing using the Gov, and 410 factory loads.

Again, that short barrel just knocks heck out of down range speed.

"Gimmick" or not, rarely do I go into a gun shop, where a Gov, or a "knockoff", is not found.

Someone must be buying them.