Probably as many as the fired gun cases manufacturers were forced to send to NY and MD state police ,for sales in those states, that were used to solve gun crimes.
Govt is going after the low hanging fruit-this time ghost guns
- Thread starter bushmaster1313
- Start date
Probably as many as the fired gun cases manufacturers were forced to send to NY and MD state police ,for sales in those states, that were used to solve gun crimes.
That just changed with the new executive order. Now ALL 4473s must be turned in to the Feds.
sipowicz
Member
RWPBR
Member
You are extrapolating. This is a gun control thread. Dictators like gun control. Using a humorous meme is not uncivil.
V/R
The Chief
Here's a couple links for old school stuff. It is for those who
might need things.
First one came out in 1969. Pages 96-143 are good for small
stuff like this thread seems to dance around.
https://www.militarynewbie.com/wp-c...ions-Handbook-1969-Department-of-the-Army.pdf
Second book from 66 is very illuminating for things that
need illumination as it were.
https://www.militarynewbie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/TM-31-201-1.pdf
You might want to print them out because paper doesn't need
batteries. Hopefully their information won't be needed but I
hear the ratchet clicking as the screws get tighter.
might need things.
First one came out in 1969. Pages 96-143 are good for small
stuff like this thread seems to dance around.
https://www.militarynewbie.com/wp-c...ions-Handbook-1969-Department-of-the-Army.pdf
Second book from 66 is very illuminating for things that
need illumination as it were.
https://www.militarynewbie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/TM-31-201-1.pdf
You might want to print them out because paper doesn't need
batteries. Hopefully their information won't be needed but I
hear the ratchet clicking as the screws get tighter.
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And all for gun registration, have yet to personally meet a LEO who was not in favor of gun registration.
Hi, I'm George from Philadelphia.....Now you met one.
Hi, I'm George from Philadelphia.....Now you met one.
None of this is good and the republicans will do nothing to stop it, but it doesn't look (from what I've read) like it stops a person from building an 80% receiver into a firearm. The insidious part is the feds now want all those 4473s to wallow around in. I'm sure there's more insidiousness to come but thats what I've read.
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That was written on the Russian missile that hit the train station in Ukraine killing women and kids.
GOA is already on this. You can go to their website for more info.
That is rude and uncalled for. As a vet and former marine law enforcement at a federal port, I have served this country, earning my views. How have you served this country that gives you the right to badmouth someone who has?
To think that regulating ghost guns will somehow 'rob' states of their freedoms is thinking from the shallow end of the pool. Next thing you know, 'they' will be demanding you license your trucks and dogs, and than the fight is really on.
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I would like to get a couple of 20% lowers to see how that milling machine I got works next winter. What seems to be overlooked is that it is not legal to make yourself a gun then sell it to someone else, that makes you a firearm manufacturer and uncle sugar will want his cut. That's the way I understand it, but I may be wrong. This is the same reason some friends when the asked if I would sell them some of my reloads the answer was no.
OP
This is the new rule on Ghost guns and definition of frame and Receiver
The new rule is here
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/rulemaking/final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download
Does a lot more than regulate so-called "Ghost Guns"
A very important part of the rule is how it defines "frame or receiver"
In an AR-15 type gun the "receiver" is what some call a "stripped lower"
In a 1911, the frame is what we normally think of as the frame (i.e., the part that holds the trigger).
I think the above is correct but your mileage might vary
From what I have read, a new definition of frame or receiver was needed because under the old rules neither the upper nor the lower of an AR-15, or the fully assembled gun, met the definition of "firearm."
From the summary:
^^^ Note the red highlighting above. This is now evidence in a court of law that an AR-15 type rifle is not unusual. Very significant.
This is from the summary:
Finally, if anyone wants to protest these new regulations I think it would be a HUGE mistake to try and cut it close to the line without stepping over. IMHO, the best way to protest these regulations is to purchase an American made semi-automatic rifle that conforms to the laws in your jurisdiction. Thereby adding to the argument - one rifle at at time - that these guns are popular and not unusual.
The new rule is here
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/rulemaking/final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download
Does a lot more than regulate so-called "Ghost Guns"
A very important part of the rule is how it defines "frame or receiver"
In an AR-15 type gun the "receiver" is what some call a "stripped lower"
In a 1911, the frame is what we normally think of as the frame (i.e., the part that holds the trigger).
I think the above is correct but your mileage might vary
From what I have read, a new definition of frame or receiver was needed because under the old rules neither the upper nor the lower of an AR-15, or the fully assembled gun, met the definition of "firearm."
From the summary:
^^^ Note the red highlighting above. This is now evidence in a court of law that an AR-15 type rifle is not unusual. Very significant.
This is from the summary:
Finally, if anyone wants to protest these new regulations I think it would be a HUGE mistake to try and cut it close to the line without stepping over. IMHO, the best way to protest these regulations is to purchase an American made semi-automatic rifle that conforms to the laws in your jurisdiction. Thereby adding to the argument - one rifle at at time - that these guns are popular and not unusual.
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In fact, I believe a person can sell a firearm they made from an 80% lower as long as they didn't make it with the INTENT to sell it. That is my understanding. I've seen a few for sale in the local gun classifieds and nobody seems to have a cow about it.
That said, I certainly wouldn't try it. Proving "intent" could be minefield.
bulletslap
Member
On a tangent, isn't it ironic that Hunter Biden was not prosecuted for lying on a 4473?
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I can see the future!
It's a.......lock!
It's a.......lock!
I don't believe you.
luvsmiths
Member
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Again, when everyone thinks like you, NO State will be free.
And just a small FYI- if you don't know what gave me my right to say what I said, go back to school. I stand by what I said, and your "service" doesn't exclude you, sorry if you thought it did.
And guess what? Being born an American, and under the Constitution of this Country.... that gave me right to MY views. Don't like them, don't read them. I would have guessed you knew about the Constitution of the United States though, being how you served and all.
When all people think that "cutting and running" as you suggest as being the way to go, instead of fighting,
NO STATE WILL BE SAFE.
Do you need it explained in some other type of way, that you can better understand? If so, let me know what you want to hear, and I'll write that for you..
Or not. Probably not.
Oh- and did you know that the bill of rights didn't guarantee anything about trucks and dogs? Go check it out. It's true.
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LittleCooner
Member
I bought a gun last week that was not registered at the factory. yep, filled out the standard 4473, so they have a record that I have owned it for 4 days now. Research says that when the Russians got to the factory in Germany in 1945, they blew up the factory and all the records. Kind of makes me wonder if I had not found it, sounds like another one no way to trace. And then I have guns pre 1968 with no serial number, and I have dads guns, granddads gun and great granddads guns. Sorry, they are not all registered and traceable.
Jon651
Member
I'm certainly NOT defending the system as it exists today, only that it does exist in this form. I know that the manufacturers, distributors and retail sales/FFL's keep their records and that is "supposed to be" how guns are traced. I cannot find anywhere in the FFL or other regs that permit the destruction of said records by the record holders, but maybe an FFL who knows the regs more intimately can provide some clarity?
After a gun is sold in a retail setting, the presumption is that we rely on the good graces of the owner to know when and to whom the weapon was sold to. In reality, I sold a Glock to a private person back in the 80s and frankly after several moves and other significant life events I no longer have the paperwork nor can I even recall the exact year!
Frankly, the only way I can see this system working to any degree would be if gun sales were but a tiny fraction of what they are - but that doesn't match reality. This is a clear example of the procedures and process not keeping up with the real world.
cgt4570
Member
Not that any of us own an 'evil spirit' lower (or a brace for our bad arm), but is there any kind of grandfather clause?
Don't they realize that firearms have been manufactured in home shops since well before the industrial age or electricity?
Afghans have been building great copies of quality guns in caves for nearly 2 centuries using nothing but hand tools.
Don't they realize that firearms have been manufactured in home shops since well before the industrial age or electricity?
Afghans have been building great copies of quality guns in caves for nearly 2 centuries using nothing but hand tools.
Sincerely curious, how does this work? Is it a case of finding a victim and a gun and tracing the gun to see if you find a bad guy? Seems unlikely that would work. I can imagine finding a bad guy with a gun and tracing to see if you could figure out who sold a gun to a prohibited person, then get that person for the straw purchase or illegal transfer. Probably easier to just interview it out of them 9 times out of 10. Just trying to understand the benefits. BTW, what is NIBIN?
drumminor2nd
Member
Google it. Here's the first hit, from the News Corp.-owned New York Post: NYPD has recovered staggering number of ghost guns in 2022
Here's another article about 70 being seized from the Iron Pipeline: Largest 'Ghost Gun' Bust in NY History Nets 336 Counts Against Maryland Man – NBC New York
Similar stories are to be found in Chicago, San Francisco, even in rural areas.
And I don't take the cops' word on it -- I've seen them with my own eyes (I'm not law enforcement, but I work with them and have seen them popping up with surprising regularity lately).
I wonder if this'll cause Ruger to start serializing the frames rather than the uppers of the MK series of pistols. Love the MKII, hate having a barrel swap be a "firearm transfer."
Can people just stop building ghost gun revolvers? Thanks.
This. Houston PD has similar experiences.
If a person is not familiar with criminal investigation and criminal procedure, explanation by forum posting will be grossly misleading and over-simplified.
Here's NIBIN: National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN) | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
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One worst case scenario that I can see coming from this is that with AR type firearms both the upper and lower will need a serial number, and you better not get caught with a mismatched set. Since they specifically mention striker fired firearms, which the AR is not, I think both the slides and frames on handguns will be serial numbered. Some speech writer will point out that this has been the case among European manufactures for over a century. So no more buying a upper or parts slide through the mail without going through a FFL.
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