Gun Background Checks Supported By More Than 90 Percent

Comrad said:
As a devil's advocate I have to ask, where was the NRA when our second amendment rights were being decimated in states like NY, NJ, CT, MA, etc.

I'm not defending or advocating background checks even though I have to live with them. I just find it ironic that there is all this outcry now. We've been suffering for decades.
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Democrats gradually won more and more elections based on the makeup of the working community and voter demographics (schools & colleges, unions, public workers, legal community, labs funded by government, etc. etc.)

Kennedy influence fed the beast.

Eventually Dems drove out enough Republicans so that they could control gerrymandering (the reverse is done in Texas).

Once they had dominance AND gerrymandering, they were able to pass even more oppressive laws (our legislature was headed by William Bulger, brother of gangster Whitely Bulger).

Like most blue areas (including our current federal government), no legislation moved forward if it wasn't appealing to democrats and ANY legislation passed if it would help induce Republicans to re-locate out of state. Again, the reverse of this can and does happen in RED states.

Eventually, the NRA gave up in the interest of prioritizing the success rate of their investments.

Sorry for the political nature of this, but you asked.

It can happen to anyone - even at a national level.
 
IMHO it's useless to keep reapeting there is 'no gun show loophole'.

Even idiot fudds know this isn't true.

There is no loophole FOR DEALERS in that the law applies to them at gun shows as it does on their premises.

There IS a loophole when it comes to private sales executed at SOME gun shows between private seller and private buyer.

If we want to prevail in these arguments, we can't be denying the obvious. That's for the other side to do.
 
Titan said:
IMHO it's useless to keep reapeting there is 'no gun show loophole'.

Even idiot fudds know this isn't true.

There is no loophole FOR DEALERS in that the law applies to them at gun shows as it does on their premises.

There IS a loophole when it comes to private sales executed at SOME gun shows between private seller and private buyer.

If we want to prevail in these arguments, we can't be denying the obvious. That's for the other side to do.
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True enough, it's not a "gunshow loophole", it's a "private sale" loophole. On the other hand, leaving the term alone keeps gunshows as a very minor source for firearms used by criminals. According to an FBI study, about 0.7% (source). An alarming aspect of the study is that nearly 40% obtained firearms from family or friends, about the same percentage as those illegally obtained.
 
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For all of you that think there is no database now let me provide some evidence that a database already exists. In Webster New York a mental case killed 2 first responders before killing himself after he set fire to his house. Within a few hours after the crime scene was secure the police had identified the gun, where it was purchased and the girl who purchased it, several years ago! She has been charged for straw purchasing the gun for a convicted felon, ( he killed his grandmother with a hammer).

So HOW did they track the gun's history so fast? A database, that's how!
I firmly believe that when a background check is made through a current FFL, the government is secretly keeping that information.
 
For those of you that favor a Universal Background check for those wanting to exercise a Second Amendment RIGHT, do you support Universal Background checks before you exercise your OTHER RIGHTS?

Background check to post on the internet.

Background check to write a letter to the editor of a newspaper.

Background check to give a speech.

Background check to worship in your church, synagogue or mosque.

Background check to peacefully assemble.

Etc, etc, etc.

If you don't agree to a background check to exercise your other RIGHTS, why would you agree to a limitation on your most important of all rights, the right to defend your life, and to resist government tyranny?
 
Comrad said:
The government knows EVERYTHING about us already. With a background check the FFL will have a record, so what. All that says is you once bought a gun. They have no way to know that it was lost destroyed sold whatever. The only way they are going to take them is to kick our doors down and when that happens we got bigger problems than background checks.
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There are over 300 millions guns in this country. By counting all of the hunters as soldiers they make up the largest "army" in the world. I am sure there are at least billions, maybe trillions, of rounds of ammo in private hands. Compare this to approximately 500,000 police officers. How does the government plan to confiscate weapons other than by going door to door? I do not believe that this will ever happen. The chaos and backlash that would follow would most certainly not be worth the cost. While I am absolutely no proponent of further restrictions on gun ownership, probably the least restrictive would be BG checks with sensible exemptions. CCW holders, for example, are one group to exempt. While figures lie and liars figure it is hard to dispute polls about checks when even Fox's numbers are in line with other polls. It is what it is.
RichH
 
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universal backround checks are only going to affect law abiding gun owners.I'm not going to let any one tell me i have to get a backround check on my kids to give them my guns. I will give these people nothing. Criminals dont do backround checks they get them illegally thats why they are called criminals.
 
If they do pass a useless background check law then i want universal background checks for drivers license.
 
Insane people and felons

I have a serious concern about insane people and convicted felons buying guns or ammo. I have NO problem with having a background check on myself before buying a gun because, 1) I have nothing to hide and 2) I do not want any irresponsible person or convict running loose with a loaded gun. After all, aren't these kinds people the main reason some of us have guns for personal protection in the first place?

Roger
 
I say NO to all of their demands. NO to everything they are trying to do. Tell them to ENFORCE all of the laws that are on the books now. Look at what has happened in the last 4 years. It has to stop now.
I also don't believe the 90% they are peddling. They are trying to convince the uninformed people that the 90% is fact. I don't think so.
 
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Here in Missouri you have to have a background check to obtain a concealed carry license. If this stupid "background check" law goes into effect, can't I just show someone my card and say "there ya go, I've already had one. Sell me the gun". That might keep it from turning into a "registration" thing. I am NOT in favor of universal background checks.
 
magsherman said:
Here in Missouri you have to have a background check to obtain a concealed carry license. If this stupid "background check" law goes into effect, can't I just show someone my card and say "there ya go, I've already had one. Sell me the gun". That might keep it from turning into a "registration" thing. I am NOT in favor of universal background checks.
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In Texas, if you have a CHL, the dealer doesn't have to call in for clearance to sell you a gun. I was thinking the same thing this morning...just like you have to have a driver's license to drive a car (well, legally anyway) then IF we have to have some sort of universal background check, why not approach it that way: you get a permit, which is good for 5 years (or whatever) and then no additional checks are required to buy from a dealer during its valid period; private parties could still sell to one another as long as both had a valid permit.
 
GKC said:
In Texas, if you have a CHL, the dealer doesn't have to call in for clearance to sell you a gun. I was thinking the same thing this morning...just like you have to have a driver's license to drive a car (well, legally anyway) then IF we have to have some sort of universal background check, why not approach it that way: you get a permit, which is good for 5 years (or whatever) and then no additional checks are required to buy from a dealer during its valid period; private parties could still sell to one another as long as both had a valid permit.
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Ken, I believe we should discuss this idea further. If background checks look to become inevitable, perhaps something like this would be a good alternative. Thoughts?
 
Well said Jack Wagon. I don't want a government registry which is just a wolf in sheeps clothing. When they decide to confiscate our guns they can use the registry to come knocking at your door. Honest law abiding citizens have much to fear when it comes to our government. Last but not least when Barry said citizens agree with him he should prove it and not just spout off the cuff **** like he does.
 
jtpur said:
Why not background checks for car buyer. We don't want drunks driving. Why not background checks before you can have kids. We don't want the mental nuts to be around small children. You folks who want to sacrifice security for liberty deserve neither.
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Some people should have a license to have children.
 
How about background checks to run for political office? Add an intelligence test to it and then have them express their understanding of the bill of rights and what does "not to be infringed" mean to them...if they pass the test...let em run.
 
Have any of you seen a poll on background checks I have not. I would not put much faith in any of these polls. I do not believe any thing they say. Do you believe that he really wants to save lives .If he really did he would go after all the gangs that are responsible for most of the gun crimes have you heard him say that they where going to come down on them like rain and give them harder time and the Death penalty . No he just wants our guns so they can do what ever tickles their fancy..
We are not the problem and our guns or not the problem .They want to disarm us plain and simple.
 
owenwd54 said:
Have any of you seen a poll on background checks I have not. I would not put much faith in any of these polls.
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You can make a poll have any result you want, depending on what questions you ask (or how you phrase them) and who you ask. For example, I would imagine a poll asking members here if they approved of a gun ban would have a very different result than if you asked the Hollyweird "elite" the very same question.
 
5Wire said:
True enough, it's not a "gunshow loophole", it's a "private sale" loophole. On the other hand, leaving the term alone keeps gunshows as a very minor source for firearms used by criminals. According to an FBI study, about 0.7% (source). An alarming aspect of the study is that nearly 40% obtained firearms from family or friends, about the same percentage as those illegally obtained.
Click to expand...

Legal gun owners need to stop making our fight more difficult than it is.
 
Titan said:
IMHO it's useless to keep reapeting there is 'no gun show loophole'.

Even idiot fudds know this isn't true.

There is no loophole FOR DEALERS in that the law applies to them at gun shows as it does on their premises.

There IS a loophole when it comes to private sales executed at SOME gun shows between private seller and private buyer.

If we want to prevail in these arguments, we can't be denying the obvious. That's for the other side to do.
Click to expand...

Right now the media is pushing a statistic saying 40% of gun sales do not involve a background check (the "Lopphole"). I do not think this statistic is true - anymore. It came from a study in the Klinton years and I think things have changed since then. There are many states that require sales to go through dealers and many more that require handgun sales in particular to go through a dealer or be done only with people that have had a background check done (CCP or a purchase permit or FOID card in some states). I know there are some free states that are still open on private sales but seemingly less all the time. I have seen it change drasticly here in NC since the 90s. The gun shows used to be full of private sales on the floor, probably more than dealer sales, but these days there are virtually none. When we enacted CCP in NC in early 96', way down in the fine print (that no one saw) was the requirement that all pistol transfers required a purchase permit to be obtained and exchanged. Since then rules enacted buy the show promoters, more police / ATF present and more crackdowns have eliminated most private pistol sales - and many long gun sales too. These days too since more and more people have CCPs most seller I know use these to verify eligibility of a potential buyer. In short this "Lopphole" **** is way overblown in terms of its size and severity.
All of that aside - for those that support "Universal" background checks, I still ask the same basic question - do we want to give all citizens the right to conduct a background check on their fellow citizens - and if so what would this system look like???
 
aguablanco said:
There are over 300 millions guns in this country. By counting all of the hunters as soldiers they make up the largest "army" in the world. I am sure there are at least billions, maybe trillions, of rounds of ammo in private hands. Compare this to approximately 500,000 police officers. How does the government plan to confiscate weapons other than by going door to door? I do not believe that this will ever happen. The chaos and backlash that would follow would most certainly not be worth the cost. While I am absolutely no proponent of further restrictions on gun ownership, probably the least restrictive would be BG checks with sensible exemptions. CCW holders, for example, are one group to exempt. While figures lie and liars figure it is hard to dispute polls about checks when even Fox's numbers are in line with other polls. It is what it is.
RichH
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NATO forces arrive to help confiscate?
 
Gr8Scout said:
What kinda nutcase is against background checks?
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Depends on how onerous the background check is. They can make where it so that it is difficult to pass for many people. Have your ever taken antidepressants? Have your ever had a problem with alcohol but not now? The list could go on and on. It just depends on the details. So I may be your nutcase in some cases.
 
627 city hunter said:
NATO forces arrive to help confiscate?
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You have to be joking...right? If Nato troops come on US soil...I expect they will be considered the enemy by all sworn Military Froces and all Vetrens. They have never been very good at solving forgein problems before when facing a much smaller force than they would face here in the US....it will never happen.
 
Unless you suggest nothing will come of any of this and the Senate will not sign any further bills.

Do you think the people will comply? I do not.

I think perhaps this will elevate the populace to being under Marshall Law.

If the general populace won't register guns and the D of HS has difficulty taking them and police or military mostly stand down, I figured the UN would be the next obvious force used.

You know Agenda 21?

Who else would assist in the "peaceful" disarmament of the American populace?
 
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627 city hunter said:
Unless you suggest nothing will come of any of this and the Senate will not sign any further bills.

Do you think the people will comply? I do not.

I think perhaps this will elevate the populace to being under Marshall Law.

If the general populace won't register guns and the D of HS has difficulty taking them and police or military mostly stand down, I figured the UN would be the next obvious force used.

You know Agenda 21?

Who else would assist in the "peaceful" disarmament of the American populace?
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Any attempt to disarm the American people will not be peaceful....and the UN does not have even close to enough people to do it. Where I live...almost everyone has guns (and know how to use them)Many are Vets and will not comply....you cound not pay me enough money to try knocking in their doors.....no one wants direct combat.......but thats what will happen and they will lose their will to go down that road as their gang gets thinned. The UN would not do that job...and could not survive in the enviroment they would be in.
Are you aware of Agenda oathkeepers?
 
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