gun cleaning thread

Good evening,
Newbie in CT here. My wife, the shooter, and I have three S&W 38spl revolvers that we really enjoy. A few months ago I started reloading and the only bullets I could get were lead semi-wadcutters which are loaded over light loads of HP38. After returning from the range today and starting our post range cleaning drill I took a hard look at the barrels and found evidence of what I thought was pretty significant leading at the cone and for a half inch or so into the barrels.

I soaked the barrels and chambers with Hoppes #9 except for the nickel model 10 where I used Rem oil. After about 20 minutes I used a brass bore brush to dislodge the lead. This seems to work fairly well but not perfectly and I worry about using so much brush.

What do the you pro's use to keep ahead of lead fouling?

Thanks in advance for your help.

tranquility30
Model 10-5 four inch
Model 36 no dash 3 inch
Centennial 642 with 1-7/8 barrel
 
Tranquility said:
What do the you pro's use to keep ahead of lead fouling?
Click to expand...
I'm not a pro and won't claim to be. Neither copper nor brass will damage your bore.

Cut off a chunk of this:
product-copper.ashx

It pushes the lead right out.
 
Thanks Rastoff,
I'll find this and try it out later in the week.
I appreciate your help

Bill
Tranquility30
 
I shoot "Benchrest" both Center&Rimfire. I am VERY anal about keeping my Firearms & Equipment highly maintained and spotless. I use boreguides and the best rods that can be had. I dont harm my bores with Proper cleaning. To me maintaining my stuff is just as much enjoyment as shooting.........I also dont have a lot of money so I maintain what little of all that I have. As an Auto-Tech (mechanic) I learned fast many years ago that cleanliness means its all. Regards Ernie
 
Rastoff said:
Just how many barrels have I replaced? How does the smith know what the owner's cleaning habits are? How did he determine that it was cleaning and not shooting that required the barrel to be replaced?

To answer your questions
1. I do not know, but not as many as Mr. Roy Knight
Master Gunsmith, Connorsville IN. R.I.P.
2. and 3. By having a conversation with owner and by a thing called a bore-scope. These barrels have what is called "rifling" inside.
By looking at the "rifling" under magnification thru a good bore-sope, or cutting the bad barrel after removed, a gunsmith can tell the difference between cleaning rod scars, over zealous brushing, and FOULING/WEAR.
Before you make a dumb remark about a so called "myth" perpetuated by "lazy people" at least have some idea what you are talking about.
Good day.

Chuck
Click to expand...
 
Rastoff said:
I'm not a pro and won't claim to be. Neither copper nor brass will damage your bore.

Cut off a chunk of this:
product-copper.ashx

It pushes the lead right out.
Click to expand...

Copper will not damage your bore ?????
Learn something new every day.........
Wrong.

Chuck
 
What about the Lewis lead remover

The Lewis remover is a piece of bronze screen over a jag-like piece pushed through the barrel. People say they really do a good job of removing lead. Are they harmful to your bore if used properly?
 
They "sell" lots of "cleaners" none of them will remove lead. Only manual elbow grease will such as the chore boy or Lewis lead remover.
Only 2 actually remove copper

The not cleaning guns probably came from the same ones that say never clean a 22 LR. Lets see, they use powder, primers and lead or copper. Guess they are magic.:rolleyes:

Take a spotless clean handgun barrel and fire one dummy centerfire round with just a a primer, no bullet or powder. Put a patch with solvent through it and see how much color is on the patch.

Guns are tools, I clean them also after each use. Take them out of the safe they are ready to go. Synthetic oils do not evaporate.
 
Without knowing me or what I do or what my education is, a member here has accused me of not knowing my facts. Alright, I accept the challenge.

  • Brass is an alloy made of copper and zinc.
  • Copper is about 6 times softer than steel used to make gun barrels.
  • Zinc is softer than Copper.
  • Aluminum is softer than Zinc.
  • Lead is softer than Aluminum.
  • Wood is softer than lead.
Not all gun barrels are made of the same kind of steel. So, no broad statement can be made quantitatively when comparing the hardness of the two metals. The bottom line here is that the tool used to clean the barrel is much, much softer than the barrel.

Because the metal being used is so much softer than the article being cleaned, it won't harm it. That is not to say that two materials won't affect each other when rubbed together; they will. The question is not will they affect each other, but how much will they affect each other? The answer is very little. The actual amount of that affect is so small that it cannot be measured after only one use. It would take many thousands of passes to have a measurable affect.

This is why cleaning rods are made of aluminum or wood or are coated with some material like vinyl or powder coating.

Measurement is something I know about. I have been a Metrologist for more than 25 years. In the lab we have the capability of measuring length to an accuracy better than +/-.5 micro inches (+/-.0000005").

Now, some here seem to be focused on the barrel only. That is a mistake. There is much more to the gun than the barrel. As I said before, the vast majority of mechanical gun malfunctions are caused by dirt. Dirt comes from various sources, but one of the major contributors is carbon from the firing of ammunition. Just because modern primers and powders aren't corrosive (some still are so, beware of what you're using), doesn't mean they don't make your gun dirty. Residue from firing the gun can get in the works and cause things to not move freely. Even unburned flakes of powder can get in the lock and prevent smooth action.

Further, more lubricant is not better. Grease and oil attract dirt. That dirt will cause your gun to fail. Use only the amount of lubricant necessary to coat the parts that rub. All grease or oil that squeezes out has no value and should be wiped away.

The Remington 870 is arguably the most reliable shotgun ever made. I fixed a broken firing pin on one once. The owner was one of those that believed cleaning was a waste of time. There was so much gunk built up in the firing pin channel in the bolt that the firing pin couldn't move freely. That was what caused it to break.

Gunsmiths are people just like anyone else. If a gunsmith gives me a piece of advice, but can't explain why, I won't accept it out of hand. That doesn't mean he's wrong, it just means I'm going to do my own research before I trust it.

So, when someone, anyone, tells me that cleaning my gun will do more damage than not cleaning it, I'm going to question it. The only support, in this thread, that has been offered to that claim is, "A gunsmith told me." That's not justification, it's just what someone said. I've offered up real facts along with sound reasoning as to why cleaning is good for your gun. Until someone can offer up solid evidence to the contrary, the idea that cleaning is somehow worse than not cleaning, it will stay in the category of a myth.
 
At the risk of getting myself in trouble, I think it's time to take a step back and perform some deep breathing. As a relatively new (compared to most here) gun owner, I'm interested in hearing this discussion. However, I am the son of a lifetime tool and die father who NEVER, and I mean NEVER left a tool neglected. Drives my wife nuts that I have 50-60 year old tools that function like new! That said, my Dad also had his quirks. For instance, he never met a bolt or nut that was too tight!!!!!

All the discussion of "what might damage what" is interesting but remember, a piece of wood can penetrate a concrete wall in a hurricane and paper will cut you silly!

I believe that clean and properly lubricated devices operate/perform better and last longer. This is what I believe. That's not to say they wouldn't have done just as well if I ignored them. I'll never know because I'll never do it. Any time I ever have, the item has had to be replaced prematurely. Do I KNOW it was my neglect and not a bad product, NO.

This is where time and empirical evidence leads the way. I tend to agree that someone should be capable of telling me why something is "so" when they tell me to do it, even if the answer is "because I've always done it that way" or "because that's how my Dad taught me".

All that together has done nothing to progress this thread but I hope we'll get back to the OP's request!!! I also have a 1997 GMC Z71 with 40K miles and an engine that could be used for a dinner plate :)

Looking for some new habits to add to my OCD!!!!!!

Now back to your regularly scheduled program :)
 
smokindog said:
All the discussion of "what might damage what" is interesting but remember, a piece of wood can penetrate a concrete wall in a hurricane and paper will cut you silly!

Thank You smokindog. Exactly !!! This in a way "proves the point". The hardness scale of metals/or anything don't mean squat when you factor in Velocity and Heat into the equation.
My apologies to the O.P. but i'll have to continue to "call out"
members who (First) accuse another of being (Lazy) because their cleaning regimen differs from others.
As i said to begin with, to each his own.


Chuck
Click to expand...
 
POST #42

GOOD STUFF. If you like OCD, you will love reloading. I was a chronic over tightener, just like Dad and brushed my teeth with too much force in certain spots (EXCUUUUUSE MEEE). I'll admit a cheap jointed cleaning rod that can scratch a bbl can do harm. even good cleaning technique MAY increase wear, on a molecular level and after 300 years or so I may ruin a gun. I guess I will have gotten my moneys worth though. a busy butcher can wear out a knife fairly quickly by sharpening as required to keep it cutting correctly. by some posters logic we shouldn't sharpen knives either.
 
Chuck,
Now you're just grasping at straws. A hurricane can put a piece of wood through a concrete wall, but you can't. It's really simple physics. Neither can any of us impart the same force with a brass brush as a fired bullet.

I did say that the "not cleaning" thing was born and perpetuated by the lazy. I wasn't specifically calling you lazy. I apologize if that's the way it came across.
 
Rastoff,
No apologies needed. Just a difference of opinion. But to say, it's a
myth perpetuated by lazy people i think went a bit far.
Sure barrels are ruined by neglect. I also say barrels can and do
get ruined by over zealous or improper cleaning.
I have seen the scarring impaired on rifling by the use of a bent
2 piece cleaning rod on rifles.
The newer coated one piece cleaning rods and the bore snakes have
surely helped save the accuracy and rifling from many a barrel.
I don't shoot hundreds of rounds per session "usually", and i shoot
moly coated bullets in most of my varmint rifles so i choose to
run a patch of CLP thru the bore after each use and wipe down
the exterior with the same and i'm done. After about 300-500
rounds i will then wire brush the bore with a good copper solvent
followed by patches of a good protectant (kroil), (CLP) etc...
It has served "ME" well. I will not tell anybody how or when or
how often they should clean their own guns. If someone wants
to sit down and clean just because they like to clean, "Have at it".
Or if somebody else wants to throw their gun under the seat of
their pick-up and never clean it, "that's fine too".
I'm simply trying to make a point that guns can and do get
damaged by improper cleaning methods.
My apologies to you sir if i offended. It was not my intention.

Chuck
 
I build and fly sailplanes. Building is almost as much fun as flying to me. I shoot and reload. Reloading is almost as much fun as shooting to me. Cleaning and detail work is good for the soul and is Zen for me. I couldn't imagine not detailing one of my firearms after use. I use hoppes and hops and barley to clean my guns :).
 
GUN CLEANING

Obviously people are gonna do what they want. for the op asking a ? I'm sure he has lot's of opinions and different answers to sort through. as I've posted elsewhere and being basically lazy. leave a dirty dish in the sink till the end of the season and see how much harder it is to clean as compared to cleaning it right after it's used, kinda the same for guns. when I'm really using my head I may run a wet solvent patch through the gun and give it a quick toothbrush and solvent job at the range while it's still warm. then when I get home everything is loose and can be cleaned extremely easy with a nylon bore brush "usually", a rag, and another toothbrush. EZ-PZ without any undue energy spent by me or abrasion to the gun. sooner or later it's gonna have to be cleaned or replaced. I believe some people do exactly that. they shoot it until it won't shoot anymore, then sell it and buy another.
 
Bad habits are hard to change, so I try to avoid developing bad habits. I never shoot and put away without cleaning. That way I never need to worry about the gun functioning the next time I want to use it. Just me.

Pete
 
It may just be by habit or maybe I enjoy doing a good cleaning after every outing. It was drilled into me at a very young age that shooting and cleaning go hand and hand. Plus I really do like the smell of Hoppes #9.
 
I use the USGI Orginal Rifle Bore Cleaner and the USGI Weapons oil.

All my guns get a USGI Cleaning, the insides lubed with moly, the barrels lubed with oil.

After each outing after shooting them there cleaned and lubed again.

I love the guys who don't clean them they have been my best buys so far. Like my sporter sks it was locked up from shooting it with cosmoline a still
in the gas system. After a good cleaning I have a brand new gun. Or the ruger Mk II it was so leaded up it couldn't fire. After a good cleaning I got a great 22 pistol for $150. So leave those guns dirty so I can find them.

My guns are so cleaned and lubed I could walk into a battle if need be.

I have purchased military guns with shot out barrels from corrosve ammo and it's not pretty. I changed out the barrels and checked the headspace. The excellent barrels were $37. Thanks bubba.

If you don't want to clean and lube buy an AK 47.
 
Last edited:
I reload mostly with lead bullets in 38,357,44mag,and 45 colt. Most are mid range or plinker type loads except for my 38.It doesn't take much shooting with lead to notice a fair amount of lead deposits at the base of the barrel just beyond the forcing cone. I know from experience that its much easier to scrub that lead out shortly after a shooting session. Each to his own but I almost feel guilty if I don't clean my firearms shortly after I shoot.If I don't have time for a good barrel scrub I do like to at least wipe down my firearms with an oiled rag before I put them back in the safe.
 
I clean them because me and my guns hate rust, love hoppes "9, and gives me the chance to find anything going wrong, excuse to handle them ( sickness? ) and besides shooting them, what are ya gonna do? Just look at them?
I think more barrels have been replaced due to rust pitting than cleaning.
 
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