David LaPell
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Gun control and health care
- Thread starter David LaPell
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Spotteddog
Member
I see the Lady is artistic at turning over rocks!
johornp228
Member
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I wont be able to refuse somthing that will not be around when I am 65 or by that time I may have to be 80.
Raspy
Member
Exactly. Many of those that cry the loudest about a national health care system are the ones also saying "don't touch my Medicare". The rest of the naysayers are dreaming up things like Death Panels and following the insurance company talking points. Anthem just announced a, I think, 49% increase this year. Mine went up about 30% last year and will again this year. And on, and on.
With the conspiracy theorists and the anti government hysteria driving the issue, we'll just all fail together.
Meanwhile the poor, the illegal immigrants, the elderly, the prisoners, veterans, many pensioners and others get free care. And it's the middle class that gets to pay for it while supplimenting even the Congressmen's medical costs. As soon as someone wants to fix it by cutting out the multi million dollar salaries and 35% overhead of the insurance companies, there is the usual chorus that jumps up and starts screaming SOCIALISM!. Sad. Other succesful systems all over the world are working just fine, but we can't do it. We can't mainly because of the bribery and scare tactics, not because it can't be done.
then dont tax my pay check for forty-five years and tell me i get FREE medical, when im 66!
Dan Cash
Member
Raspy, yoiur attitude is pure class warfare. Disgusting.
TXbug, +1 on vytoland. If I had the money I payed in taxes for Medicare, I would not need Medicare.
TXbug, +1 on vytoland. If I had the money I payed in taxes for Medicare, I would not need Medicare.
38-44HD45
Absent Comrade
Wow. I make a quick hop to this thread, and get to add two new folks to my ignore list!
My son is in medical school, and the only thing that scares him, and me, worse than the wackos in DC is the naivete and utter ignorance of his classmates.
My son is in medical school, and the only thing that scares him, and me, worse than the wackos in DC is the naivete and utter ignorance of his classmates.
Raspy
Member
Dan,
Sometimes I get a little carried away. I'll be the first to admit it. But fighting any reform when we are clearly headed for a train wreck, or are in the middle of one, is pretty disgusting too.
Maybe you can point out which items in my previous post are incorrect.
Eventually, the healthcare system will grind to a stop as it is overwhelmed with those, including the middle class, that can't afford it but continue go to the emergency rooms. That is, unless we fix it, or at least try to fix it, instead of just letting it crash. This will affect all those that are entitled now as well. Why not try to do something now? Well, here are a couple of reasons among the many. And I admit not everyone feels this way, but a large percentage do. 1. Those on Medicare feel threatened, scared, and think no one else should be able to buy into it. 2. Those that hate the current administration have made a commitment to do all they can to make him fail and don't care about the collateral damage. 3. Huge congressional payoffs are incentivising our representatives to just say no and to scare the people with exageration.
The current proposed reforms are so watered down as to be useless. Watered down in part to get the right to go along. The right has commited itself to the Presidents failure. The healthcare insurance company bribery money is flowing like a river into Congress. Why would Congress want to stop a river of money flowing in their direction?
Meanwhile, Medicare is not meeting the cost of services and Medicare suplimental insurance is required. But Medicare supplimental insurance doesn't cover the difference completely. My parents pay almost half of their social security for supplimental insurance and still are paying off huge medical bills that are outside the coverage. And, by the way, my father worked a long hard life paying all his taxes faithfully.
And the beat goes on.
Sometimes I get a little carried away. I'll be the first to admit it. But fighting any reform when we are clearly headed for a train wreck, or are in the middle of one, is pretty disgusting too.
Maybe you can point out which items in my previous post are incorrect.
Eventually, the healthcare system will grind to a stop as it is overwhelmed with those, including the middle class, that can't afford it but continue go to the emergency rooms. That is, unless we fix it, or at least try to fix it, instead of just letting it crash. This will affect all those that are entitled now as well. Why not try to do something now? Well, here are a couple of reasons among the many. And I admit not everyone feels this way, but a large percentage do. 1. Those on Medicare feel threatened, scared, and think no one else should be able to buy into it. 2. Those that hate the current administration have made a commitment to do all they can to make him fail and don't care about the collateral damage. 3. Huge congressional payoffs are incentivising our representatives to just say no and to scare the people with exageration.
The current proposed reforms are so watered down as to be useless. Watered down in part to get the right to go along. The right has commited itself to the Presidents failure. The healthcare insurance company bribery money is flowing like a river into Congress. Why would Congress want to stop a river of money flowing in their direction?
Meanwhile, Medicare is not meeting the cost of services and Medicare suplimental insurance is required. But Medicare supplimental insurance doesn't cover the difference completely. My parents pay almost half of their social security for supplimental insurance and still are paying off huge medical bills that are outside the coverage. And, by the way, my father worked a long hard life paying all his taxes faithfully.
And the beat goes on.
bk43
Member
Actually all of them. Health insurance premiums are skyrocketing but not for the reasons you cite. Executive pay is less than 1/2 of 1% of premiums so that's not the reason. Administration costs are down under 20% and they continue to fall as providers go live with paperless programs. Industry profits remain in the 3-4% range which is close the lowest you'll see in the US for any industry. And nationalized healthcare is not working in any other countries or in the two states here that tried it.
Shooting the messenger will not solve any problems. Looking for the real reasons premiums are rising will but that's not happening.
Bob
oldRoger
US Veteran
Most of us who are retired are not in Medicare by choice.
By the grace of LBJ, I was taken kicking and screaming in 1965 and put into a program where money was withheld from my pay and my employer was forced to match it every year until I retired.
If I had invested that money I could go together with a couple of neighbors and we could buy our own Doctor.
But my buddies in congress spent it as fast as they got it.
Now I have neither the money nor any assurance that the congress intends to live up to their promises, or even much hope that they could if they wanted to.
So now the brilliant ones in DC tell me that the way to fix Medical care is to add 40 million more people to the broken system while cutting reimbursements.
One thing I can tell you..............the Federal Government has not the faintest chance of designing a workable Medical Care System, but they can make the existing system a lot worse and will do so unless stopped.
Expect Medical Insurance Premiums to go up, why? Because the Feds have added a bunch of mandatory coverage that takes effect this summer... This is not free folks; the someone that will pay is us.
By the grace of LBJ, I was taken kicking and screaming in 1965 and put into a program where money was withheld from my pay and my employer was forced to match it every year until I retired.
If I had invested that money I could go together with a couple of neighbors and we could buy our own Doctor.
But my buddies in congress spent it as fast as they got it.
Now I have neither the money nor any assurance that the congress intends to live up to their promises, or even much hope that they could if they wanted to.
So now the brilliant ones in DC tell me that the way to fix Medical care is to add 40 million more people to the broken system while cutting reimbursements.
One thing I can tell you..............the Federal Government has not the faintest chance of designing a workable Medical Care System, but they can make the existing system a lot worse and will do so unless stopped.
Expect Medical Insurance Premiums to go up, why? Because the Feds have added a bunch of mandatory coverage that takes effect this summer... This is not free folks; the someone that will pay is us.
I agree with experience with my Father.
oldRoger
US Veteran
"Gun related violence is a public health problem - it diverts considerable health care resources away from other problems and, therefore, is of interest to NIH," Don Ralbovsky, NIH spokesman, wrote in an e-mail responding to questions about the grants."
To add to Barb's point.
Barrak, Nancy, and Harry want a medical system controlled by the Feds If successful, they will employ your Doctor he will do as they command. Firearms, and anything else they deem unsuitable for the common folk, for example; motorcycles, bacon, french-fries, soft drinks, will become health and safety issues. Remember many of our common afflictions are at least in part preventable if only we would shape up and do what's right and they will be able to force compliance. You don't shape up; you go to the end of the treatment list.
Ask the good folks in GB.
To add to Barb's point.
Barrak, Nancy, and Harry want a medical system controlled by the Feds If successful, they will employ your Doctor he will do as they command. Firearms, and anything else they deem unsuitable for the common folk, for example; motorcycles, bacon, french-fries, soft drinks, will become health and safety issues. Remember many of our common afflictions are at least in part preventable if only we would shape up and do what's right and they will be able to force compliance. You don't shape up; you go to the end of the treatment list.
Ask the good folks in GB.
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Name anything the FEDs do well! They have screwed up MEDICARE and MEDICAID and people want them to control the entire health sector?! Did you notice that for supporting the Health Care Bill, AARP will get millions of new customers who had been getting Medicare Advantage. Wonder why people are paying AARP memgerships to get screwed over by them!
And if my failing memory serves me correctly, premiums for Medicare Advantage are going up double digits either this year or next. More money for AARP, which is now nothing but an insurance company.
They keep sending me stuff, I keep loading up the return envelope and sending it back.
Edited: actually on avg, 14% rise in premiums.
They keep sending me stuff, I keep loading up the return envelope and sending it back.
Edited: actually on avg, 14% rise in premiums.
Last edited:
Gutpile Charlie
US Veteran
_____________________________________________________
Damn straight! I paid all through my working years. I paid out the nose. Don 't tell me I should "decline" medicare now. That's pure BS.
As a 20 year retired veteran of the US Army, I appreciate you lumping me and all veterans with the others on your list.
BTW-I have to pay for my "free" healthcare.
Dave
BarbC
Member
We're getting off the subject here, namely how nationalized health care might affect gun control.
oldRoger
US Veteran
Right Barb, I hear you;
Let me take a shot at getting on topic. Plain and simple, if the Feds control your medical care, they are in a position to dictate terms on cost savings grounds.
We all know about diet, exercise, and giving up smoking but there are many other "unsafe habits" such as handling firearms which can be advised and finally demanded of us to keep our place in line at the Government Medical Care Facility.
These decisions will not be made by the politicians; they will be handed off to the famous "faceless bureaucrat".
Let me take a shot at getting on topic. Plain and simple, if the Feds control your medical care, they are in a position to dictate terms on cost savings grounds.
We all know about diet, exercise, and giving up smoking but there are many other "unsafe habits" such as handling firearms which can be advised and finally demanded of us to keep our place in line at the Government Medical Care Facility.
These decisions will not be made by the politicians; they will be handed off to the famous "faceless bureaucrat".
BarbC
Member
Since more children drown in backyard pools than are shot by guns, I wonder how national health care would affect your backyard pool? It's for the children, you know. And cost-effectiveness, of course.
This National Health Care is a back door to all kinds of socialist government control and the first thing they want to control is the evil gun industry.
This National Health Care is a back door to all kinds of socialist government control and the first thing they want to control is the evil gun industry.
