Gun errors in books and movies

[LoboGunLeather]

In my limited time of military service; the only people that I was aware of keeping their issue arm with them in their private lives were General Officers, and I believe it was theirs to keep. I did know a few West Point men who carried a private property 1911a1, after the Army had transitioned to the M9.


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For many years prior to WW2 US Army officers were required to provide their own uniforms and personal equipment, including side arms. General officers are usually issued a personal side arm upon promotion to that level, and the pistol is transferred as personal property. Such pistols have included Colt hammerless .380 pistols, specially made "General Officer" model 1911-style pistols, and probably others.

During WW2 US Army Air Corps officers (pilots, bombardiers, navigators) were usually issued a pistol upon graduation from their training programs, and kept that pistol with them during all assignments and while in transit. Individual officers were responsible for those issued pistols, and if negligently lost or unaccounted for could be required to reimburse the Army.

During my time in the Army (1968-72) some personnel were authorized privately-owned side arms. This typically required written orders from their senior commander, and was usually limited to officers and senior NCO's. Some special operations troops are allowed privately-owned firearms, also requiring written orders. Some officers and senior NCO's went to Vietnam with travel orders specifically authorizing privately-owned weapons, usually pistols and combat knives. Those authorized privately-owned weapons were sometimes required to store them in unit armories while not in use; some personnel were authorized to keep those weapons in their quarters.

US Army CID (Criminal Investigation Division) agents and some MI (military intelligence) agents were issued .38 revolvers which they kept with them throughout each assignment.

At one time I was assigned to the 6th US Army Provost Marshal's Office as a Line of Duty Investigator, a job that required frequent travel all over the western US to investigate injuries and fatalities involving off-duty soldiers. I had open travel orders authorizing airline tickets, rental cars, hotels, concealed weapons, etc, and I had an issued handgun (.38 Colt Cobra revolver) that I kept with me for months at a time. Inventory control was accomplished by a copy of my orders and a "hand receipt" acknowledging issue of that particular handgun, kept in the unit armorer's office. It was made very clear to me that I was responsible for that revolver, or for the $54.00 value shown on Army records at the time.

While it is generally true that the US military keeps very tight control over weapons, there were certainly a number of exceptions.

Defining "tight control" brings up another memory. In the mid-1970's a shipment of M60 machineguns enroute to a National Guard armory in Colorado was unaccounted for, presumed stolen. Investigators were provided all the shipping documents and markings of the shipping crate, but it took the Army depot sending the weapons several months to determine the actual serial numbers of the weapons involved. It seems that, at that time, once packed for storage the primary inventory control was the markings on the crate, with individual weapons' serial numbers maintained in separate files. Hopefully in this day of computers such an incident has become less likely.

 

[NYlakesider]

For many years prior to WW2 US Army officers were required to provide their own uniforms and personal equipment, including side arms. General officers are usually issued a personal side arm upon promotion to that level, and the pistol is transferred as personal property. Such pistols have included Colt hammerless .380 pistols, specially made "General Officer" model 1911-style pistols, and probably others.

During WW2 US Army Air Corps officers (pilots, bombardiers, navigators) were usually issued a pistol upon graduation from their training programs, and kept that pistol with them during all assignments and while in transit. Individual officers were responsible for those issued pistols, and if negligently lost or unaccounted for could be required to reimburse the Army.

During my time in the Army (1968-72) some personnel were authorized privately-owned side arms. This typically required written orders from their senior commander, and was usually limited to officers and senior NCO's. Some special operations troops are allowed privately-owned firearms, also requiring written orders. Some officers and senior NCO's went to Vietnam with travel orders specifically authorizing privately-owned weapons, usually pistols and combat knives. Those authorized privately-owned weapons were sometimes required to store them in unit armories while not in use; some personnel were authorized to keep those weapons in their quarters.

US Army CID (Criminal Investigation Division) agents and some MI (military intelligence) agents were issued .38 revolvers which they kept with them throughout each assignment.

At one time I was assigned to the 6th US Army Provost Marshal's Office as a Line of Duty Investigator, a job that required frequent travel all over the western US to investigate injuries and fatalities involving off-duty soldiers. I had open travel orders authorizing airline tickets, rental cars, hotels, concealed weapons, etc, and I had an issued handgun (.38 Colt Cobra revolver) that I kept with me for months at a time. Inventory control was accomplished by a copy of my orders and a "hand receipt" acknowledging issue of that particular handgun, kept in the unit armorer's office. It was made very clear to me that I was responsible for that revolver, or for the $54.00 value shown on Army records at the time.

While it is generally true that the US military keeps very tight control over weapons, there were certainly a number of exceptions.

Defining "tight control" brings up another memory. In the mid-1970's a shipment of M60 machineguns enroute to a National Guard armory in Colorado was unaccounted for, presumed stolen. Investigators were provided all the shipping documents and markings of the shipping crate, but it took the Army depot sending the weapons several months to determine the actual serial numbers of the weapons involved. It seems that, at that time, once packed for storage the primary inventory control was the markings on the crate, with individual weapons' serial numbers maintained in separate files. Hopefully in this day of computers such an incident has become less likely.

Thank you Lobo!


I posted that my Marine senior non com (E8) cousin had a issue .45 and ammo he could keep at home. I was taken to task on that in this thread.. I was going to let it drop but I feel I must clear it up!

My cousin told me about the gun and for a fact you did not want to call him a liar he was a 34 year lifer and a total Marine through& through. He did not have that issued weapon till the final years of his Marine time. Why he had it I do not know, I did not ask and he did not say other than it was a issued 1911. My cousin was not a gun person and only shot for quails or in action.. He never to the best of my knowledge owned a civilian gun.

After he retired he came back to the same job as a civilian for a couple years. He lived in Swansboro NC died in 1998 at age 72!

 

[Smoke]

There's a scene in Eldorado where Mississippi takes a shot at one of the bad guys and hits a sign over his head instead. While the heroes were discussing Missisippi's poor shooting he's got the shotgun resting on his shoulder and aimed right at John Wayne's head. With his finger on the trigger I might add.

I see poor gun handling like this in almost every movie with guns in it. I just picked El Dorado as a good example.

 

[Smoke]

Thank you Lobo!


I posted that my Marine senior non com (E8) cousin had a issue .45 and ammo he could keep at home. I was taken to task on that in this thread.. I was going to let it drop but I feel I must clear it up!

My cousin told me about the gun and for a fact you did not want to call him a liar he was a 34 year lifer and a total Marine through& through. He did not have that issued weapon till the final years of his Marine time. Why he had it I do not know, I did not ask and he did not say other than it was a issued 1911. My cousin was not a gun person and only shot for quails or in action.. He never to the best of my knowledge owned a civilian gun.

After he retired he came back to the same job as a civilian for a couple years. He lived in Swansboro NC died in 1998 at age 72!

First of all I never said I thought that you were lying. I don't think your cousin told you the whole story but I never said I thought you were lying.

I joined the Army much later than Lobo got out and I was in it much longer than he was. During the time I was in the situation he describes never would have happened. Contrary to what you see on TV CID doesn't even carry weapons except in very specific circumstances and they absolutely do not maintain their weapons in their quarters.

I have no idea when your cousin was in and I have no idea what he actually had in his home. A Korean War or Vietnam bring back that was falsely reported "lost" (IOW stolen)? is a possibility but I'm positive he didn't sign out a weapon from the unit arms room and keep it at home.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Thread drift going on here, and I am guilty as charged.

 

[Lt JL]

In the film "The Sting", there is a closeup of the hit woman threading the suppressor on to her revolver.

 

[Harkrader]

Don't get me started.

 

[American1776]

I see actors brandishing a 1911 with the hammer down, ready to shoot someone.

When someone in a movie opens the cylinder on a double action revolver and spins it, the cylinder makes a clicking noise like a SA. Dumb.

 

[Smoke]

I see actors brandishing a 1911 with the hammer down, ready to shoot someone .

I'm not sure if this is an error exactly but it is beyond question my biggest pet peeve and it drives me nuts every time I see it.

I mostly see it in westerns but two guys will meet up and one will pull a gun on the other and then they have whatever conversation and the guy puts his gun back in the holster they go into the bar and have a drink together.

If things are so serious that you feel the need to throw down on me I promise you we are not going to be drinking together 5 minutes later.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Ian Fleming knew little about guns. He received a letter from the British gun writer Geoffry Boothroyd concerning Bond's armament, "Major Boothroyd" was then introduced as Bond's armorer.

 

[Inusuit]

In a Brit cop series set in Montreal, one of the officers fires his handgun. Rather than report it, his partner gives him an "official" round so the count won't be short. When he hands it off, there's a bullet in the case, but the primer has been fired.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Everything in The Expendables 1 through 4.

 

[RGVshooter]

Magnum Force is still one of my favorite Dirty harry movies but even this scene where one of the dirty cops slaps on a clip on silencer over a Colt Python was just.....wrong

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

And I won't even discuss ammunition which is accounted for To. The. Round. ( and people go to jail when they're caught with it)

I don't doubt the accuracy of your reporting of YOUR experience, but I can assure you that that was NOT the case in all services at all times, even in peacetime.

 

[Jeff423]

One of the things that I am amazed at are movie snipers. I Have seen a number of scenes where a sniper pulls a disassembled, skeletonized rifle out of a backpack, snaps it together - including the scope, and makes a 1000 yd. shot. Usually within an inch.
I guess those bench rest guys are really going down the wrong path with front rests, sand bags, wind flags, etc.

 

[Cardboard_killer]

I guess those bench rest guys are really going down the wrong path with front rests, sand bags, wind flags, etc.

I don't think flags and most of the rest of "etc" are normally available in combat. However, I agree, that marksmanship among movie snipers is often ridiculous. Two of the best war movies in the last twenty years had pretty good depictions of snipers, though.

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

I liked the multi shot LAW rockets in Chuck Norris' Invasion USA

Lots of goofy 1911 stuff in Longmire (I.e. thumbing the hammer back as he makes entry through a door)

 

[MOONDAWG]

Besides slide locked semi autos still firing...

My two favorite are bad guys threatening people with 1911's or Browning Hi-Powers with the hammer down.

People being shot with shotguns and blown 12 feet backwards.

RIGHT!

 

[steveno]

all you have to is watch "Death Wish 3" and "Death Wish 4" to see how much movies and reality can be

 

[Old Corp]

My brother and I used to loan and trade novels to read all the time. He got me started on the Lee Child books where daring-do character Jack Reacher rights criminal wrongs he always seems to repeatedly encounter.

In one story he'd secured a ".12 gauge shotgun loaded with 12 steel ball bearing buckshot for devastating effect".

I was thinking - oh, that poor shotgun barrel.....