Ziggy2525
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Pretty sure the first part about the sign is sarcasm.
"Gun On Premises" Signage
- Thread starter DrDoctor
- Start date
Pretty sure the first part about the sign is sarcasm.
Deterrence as discussed in your previous thread is the precursor to advertising or using deadly force to defend yourself.
If your deterrence fails and you need to go to deadly force, you need every tactical element stacked in your favor. That includes NOT advertising beforehand you are armed. Such advertising almost ensures the perps will also be armed and ready for a gunfight. It will probably also ensure they will come in greater numbers. You just potentially gave up tactical advantages.
Signage should be simple. Having No Tresspass--Alarm System—Beware of Dogs—Armed—etc., all the signs—just gets ridiculous and will probably communicate that at least some of the signs are false flags and that the homeowners are very scared of interlopers. Not what you are trying to communicate.
If your deterrence fails and you need to go to deadly force, you need every tactical element stacked in your favor. That includes NOT advertising beforehand you are armed. Such advertising almost ensures the perps will also be armed and ready for a gunfight. It will probably also ensure they will come in greater numbers. You just potentially gave up tactical advantages.
Signage should be simple. Having No Tresspass--Alarm System—Beware of Dogs—Armed—etc., all the signs—just gets ridiculous and will probably communicate that at least some of the signs are false flags and that the homeowners are very scared of interlopers. Not what you are trying to communicate.
To One And All,
GREAT replies!!! Very much appreciated, too. And, NO offence taken by any of the comments!!! I'll now admit to having a pre-conceived notion about both of my questions, and I was more than abit frustrated at the lack of consensus from those entities to whom I made inquiries. All of you have made cogent comments, and support my pre-conceived notion about my questions.
The local state police patrolmen who patrol this area said that just 1 no trespassing in the back, and 1 in the front, both on or near the house, is the best idea. It informs potential miscreants that they aren't welcome, but doesn't allude what may await them should they not heed the warning.
I also contacted our insurance company (thanks again to those who suggested that . . .), and their response was in favor of the "no trespassing" signs as being in compliance with many state statutes pertaining to pre-warning uninvited individuals from entering the property. Conversely, there weren't that keen on any gun signage, due to potential liability issue in the event "something untoward" should happen in the event of an armed altercation. As for the open-carrying, their unofficial position was basically it's not the greatest idea, and their official position was basically "whatever's legal in your state".
Again, fantastic responses from one and all. As they say in the Navy – Well Done!!! We're now even more confident and comfortable with the avenues we're pursuing. Our warmest personal regards to all of you. Thx.
GREAT replies!!! Very much appreciated, too. And, NO offence taken by any of the comments!!! I'll now admit to having a pre-conceived notion about both of my questions, and I was more than abit frustrated at the lack of consensus from those entities to whom I made inquiries. All of you have made cogent comments, and support my pre-conceived notion about my questions.
The local state police patrolmen who patrol this area said that just 1 no trespassing in the back, and 1 in the front, both on or near the house, is the best idea. It informs potential miscreants that they aren't welcome, but doesn't allude what may await them should they not heed the warning.
I also contacted our insurance company (thanks again to those who suggested that . . .), and their response was in favor of the "no trespassing" signs as being in compliance with many state statutes pertaining to pre-warning uninvited individuals from entering the property. Conversely, there weren't that keen on any gun signage, due to potential liability issue in the event "something untoward" should happen in the event of an armed altercation. As for the open-carrying, their unofficial position was basically it's not the greatest idea, and their official position was basically "whatever's legal in your state".
Again, fantastic responses from one and all. As they say in the Navy – Well Done!!! We're now even more confident and comfortable with the avenues we're pursuing. Our warmest personal regards to all of you. Thx.
How about this--
Get a giant sign for your front yard: "Break into my house, steal my guns".
I used a word that would adequately describe doing such a thing. Mods dinged me.
You keep writing about, more or less, intimidating a would-be attacker. This is called "talismanic thinking". It's the tendency to think that because you have A Gun, that you won't need it. It's a horrible mindset:
(a) It encourages a certain degree of boisterousness--"I can deal with this situation, I have a gun!" or even "I don't need to take this nonsense, I have a gun!" instead of "I should get the hell out of here, this situation sucks".
(b) Nobody is scared of your gun. Nobody. What deters attackers is your preparedness, attitude, and ability to communicate.
(c) When you spend all your time thinking about how you won't need to actually use your gun, you won't be able or prepared to use it if you have to.
(d) It encourages poor choices in equipment--"I'm going to carry my 6" nickeled Model 29, because it's big and will scare attackers!" when you've got a perfectly good 10+-shot compact 9mm at home. You should make equipment selections based on what's effective for you to use, not what you think is going to scare a junkie at 3AM.
I'd also not open carry if I could help it. For one thing, it advertises that you have stuff worth stealing. For another, to the uninitiated, it makes you look, frankly, crazy. I have a couple neighbors that used to do that--and although I'm Gun Culture'd enough not to let that change my opinion of them, my opinion of them before that was that they were crazy. Now I thought they were bat-guano crazy.
Don't be like my crazy old neighbors. IWB a nice pistol.
Grayfox
US Veteran
The bad guy should never know you're armed until the second bullet hits him in the chest.
Like other above, nothing on my person, vehicles or property indicates my political bent or gun ownership/affiliations.
I practice with my CC and nightstand guns and endeavor to be a 'grayman'.
I practice with my CC and nightstand guns and endeavor to be a 'grayman'.
Living in South Texas, we don't need no stinkin' signs. Everyone knows.
I'm not surprised by the lack of consensus and would not expect endorsement of "gun" signage nor OC. It is not in the general good nature of public officials to endorse packing a gun to defend one's self. A few sheriffs/LEOs will, but overall, it is not their policy to do so.
Likewise with insurance companies. Of course they are not in favor of anything that may increase liability, defined as taking money out of their pockets.
No Trespassing signs may have a required placement according to some states--number of signs, distance between signs, specified locations, etc. Check state laws before posting them willy-nilly. Or the state may not require any signage at all if a criminal intent/act was involved.
fredj338
Member
Putting up signs that you have guns on the property or in your vehicle is just stupid. It is not a deterrent. Bad guys knock on the door, no one home, kick it in & steal your stuff. A better bet is back to the dog. A sign with a large dog on it saying beware of dog, add a alarm company sign, far better than telling everyone you have guns in an otherwise empty house, especially out of town.
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I can't speak to the current laws, but it used to be in some states the presence or absence of No Trespassing signs determined the difference between simple trespass and criminal trespass charges.
"My blue heeler is Catholic" was a sign on a neighbors front gate. He didn't like the guys distributing "Watchtower". Worked for him.
You should have noted what state you are in so we guys could consider a response based on that PC knowledge - but I don't think any signs about guns does anything for you. Kind of like CCW, nobody's business but mine. I'm ok with no trespassing signs and currently use them on rural property.
In my former business, we heard frequently from law enforcement people; "When you have a home burglary, it will probably be someone you know or someone that knows them!"
Family members....yes, sadly, it happens more often than you would imagine, and is excluded under most Homeowners' Insurance policies...friends, friends' wives or kids...and which of us hasn't shown our grandkids our guns, taken them shooting and/or enjoyed working with them in our shop?...who have seen you proudly showing off your belongings, workmen who have access to your home, and can "scope out" the premesis while "doing their job" can be suspect, but, while a little paranoia can be a good thing, it can be carried too far. "Ostentatious display" (open carry) even if legal, is a very personal thing, but perhaps not the wisest choice in all situations.
Access to my shop area is access to our heating/air conditioning/plumbing/ laundry areas, visible to any repairman who looks around. Covering reloading equipment, components and ammo storage so they are not readily identifiable, may be all that is possible. When I was young and dumb, I had a garage sale...in my garage...which allowed low lifes to enter and scope out my tools and other items. So, guess what? A week later, we had a burglary. Fortunately, my insurance covered the loss, but unfortunately, I got an inexperienced adjuster, who got confused, and sent me two of everything that was stolen. I called, and told her it was too much, and I didn't want anything except what was taken, and she was flustered, and told me "Just keep it!" Like in Boxing..."Protect yourselves at all times!"
Family members....yes, sadly, it happens more often than you would imagine, and is excluded under most Homeowners' Insurance policies...friends, friends' wives or kids...and which of us hasn't shown our grandkids our guns, taken them shooting and/or enjoyed working with them in our shop?...who have seen you proudly showing off your belongings, workmen who have access to your home, and can "scope out" the premesis while "doing their job" can be suspect, but, while a little paranoia can be a good thing, it can be carried too far. "Ostentatious display" (open carry) even if legal, is a very personal thing, but perhaps not the wisest choice in all situations.
Access to my shop area is access to our heating/air conditioning/plumbing/ laundry areas, visible to any repairman who looks around. Covering reloading equipment, components and ammo storage so they are not readily identifiable, may be all that is possible. When I was young and dumb, I had a garage sale...in my garage...which allowed low lifes to enter and scope out my tools and other items. So, guess what? A week later, we had a burglary. Fortunately, my insurance covered the loss, but unfortunately, I got an inexperienced adjuster, who got confused, and sent me two of everything that was stolen. I called, and told her it was too much, and I didn't want anything except what was taken, and she was flustered, and told me "Just keep it!" Like in Boxing..."Protect yourselves at all times!"
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That is quite correct. You need to know what your state's law is with respect to such signs.
It is EXTREMELY rare to see "No Trespassing" signs in urban areas or even typical, residential suburbs. At least in my experience. It is very common to see such signs on property in rural areas.
Texas has interesting rules on this - I am only familiar with the purple paint system here but it might exist elsewhere:
(c) Texas Parks & Wildlife 2019
The point of the purple paint is that posting "No Trespassing" signs all over rural acreage creates a visually unappealing situation PLUS it is expensive and such signs do eventually fall, etc. But if the property is properly posted in conspicuous places, especially at ingress points, then the property owner can use purple paint on fence posts or trees to give effective notice.
So, that said, and I still don't know what kind of property we are discussing, or where, but if the rules are similar to Texas, I would not hesitate to recommend a "No Trespassing" sign to give third parties notice that their presence is unwanted and banned = criminal trespass if they come inside the property line.
I would never post any sign about guns. Not funny ones, not threatening ones, none of that. Let it be a mystery and a surprise.
Dog signs are mostly there for the property owner's benefit - if a dog attacks someone on the property the owner can say the visitor/intruder was warned. Arguably, it might keep intruders from trespassing.
I would not put anything. Certainly I would not advertise that I had a gun (s). If i really felt the need to put anything, it would be simple like" There is nothing on this property worth risking your life for", and let the potential perp figure it out for themselves
We've never put any bumper stickers on any of our cars. When obummer was running for his 2nd term, I saw a car with an obummer sticker on the back with the rear glass broken out. Apparently someone didn't like the political bent of the car owner, and expressed such. Plus, we don't think putting a dozen stickers on the back of the car makes any sense – who'd be interested in our points of view – we certainly aren't interested in theirs.
Per the state police, since we live on 1+ acres of land in a "semi-rural" area, we have to have a no-trespass sign on at least 2 sides of the property, so we've got 1 on the back of the house, and 1 near the corner on the front of the house. The reason for the signs is as mentioned – to differentiate between simple trespass, and criminal trespass (the presences of the signs make it criminal trespass). The statutes pertaining to such signage is very similar to those of Texas as explained herein, with the exception of the purple paint. Other than signs, fences, barriers, visible land usage, that about it.
As for the dog sign – my dad had a dog sign in the window of his garage, and he didn't even have a dog. The state police patrolmen advised doing the same thing, regardless of dog ownership, and we've had a dog sign in our garage window ever since we moved here 20 years (wayyy toooo longgg) ago.
Per the state police, since we live on 1+ acres of land in a "semi-rural" area, we have to have a no-trespass sign on at least 2 sides of the property, so we've got 1 on the back of the house, and 1 near the corner on the front of the house. The reason for the signs is as mentioned – to differentiate between simple trespass, and criminal trespass (the presences of the signs make it criminal trespass). The statutes pertaining to such signage is very similar to those of Texas as explained herein, with the exception of the purple paint. Other than signs, fences, barriers, visible land usage, that about it.
As for the dog sign – my dad had a dog sign in the window of his garage, and he didn't even have a dog. The state police patrolmen advised doing the same thing, regardless of dog ownership, and we've had a dog sign in our garage window ever since we moved here 20 years (wayyy toooo longgg) ago.
DevilDog72
US Veteran
I have my security signs up. Have thought about a sign that reads " The locks are for your safety, not mine"
I would not post any sign about guns in the house at all.
I would not post any sign about guns in the house at all.
Ziggy2525
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You seem to be on the fence about the whole gun sign thing.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
Friends of mine used to have a big, handsome Bouvier de Flandres, the Belgian sheep dog that looks like a small silvertip grizzly. He was a sweetheart, but had a bark that would wake the dead from five years ago. He used it to greet visitors.
They had a sign on their driveway gated that said "Trespassers will be eaten." Never had a problem.
As for gun signs and stuff like "If you can read this you are in range", no.
They had a sign on their driveway gated that said "Trespassers will be eaten." Never had a problem.
As for gun signs and stuff like "If you can read this you are in range", no.
elm_creek_smith
US Veteran
A friend of mine lived on acreage big enough that you had to call the house to get the gate opened which allowed access to the 500 yard long driveway. Next to the gate was a target mounted in framed Plexiglas/Lexan with a five shot 7 inch group of .30 caliber holes in the X/10/9 rings. Noted on the target was "500 yards" signed by my friend, the range master, and two witnesses. He never had any problems. [emoji848]
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Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
Not to pick on you, DD--there are a lot of guys posting this sort of thing.
Just sayin'--if you've got a novelty "Bad things happen to intruders" sign, you may as well have a gun sign.
Also, reposting from the other thread because somehow it's been made relevant again.
Man Surprised to Find Unsecured Firearms Stolen From Truck Plastered in Cringey Gun Stickers - Pew Pew Tactical
Where I'm from, there's a lot of trucks that look just like that. I don't know what the last statement means . . .
I didn't have to. They have this nice picture right at the top:
And also, in case anyone still wasn't sure:
You're getting a little desperate, Muss.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Over 20 years ago a rancher friend of mine (here in Colorado, an open range state) was having serious problems with trespassers using ATV's, tearing up his pasture land and scattering his cattle. Asked me for some advice on how to deal with the problem.
I advised him to post his land conspicuously. He told me that he had NO TRESPASSING signs everywhere there might be any adjacent public access.
I suggested that he change his signs, using "KEEP OUT, RIFLE RANGE IN USE" signs instead. After a few incidents in which trespassers complained about someone shooting near them (while they were trespassing on posted property) the problem ended.
You just need the proper signs, and the self control to avoid hitting any of the little turds entering your property without your permission.
I advised him to post his land conspicuously. He told me that he had NO TRESPASSING signs everywhere there might be any adjacent public access.
I suggested that he change his signs, using "KEEP OUT, RIFLE RANGE IN USE" signs instead. After a few incidents in which trespassers complained about someone shooting near them (while they were trespassing on posted property) the problem ended.
You just need the proper signs, and the self control to avoid hitting any of the little turds entering your property without your permission.
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joeintexas
US Veteran
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly. Back on the farm we had a nice crop of pheasants, hunters would come from town and literally shoot birds in our yard. We had signs saying No Hunting, didn't phase them. My dad put up signs saying Hunters Welcome, $100 per day per gun. Miraculously the front yard bird shooting stopped. Sad thing was, we even had a gate they had to open at the end of the lane to get access to the property with a sign on it.
Exactly. Back on the farm we had a nice crop of pheasants, hunters would come from town and literally shoot birds in our yard. We had signs saying No Hunting, didn't phase them. My dad put up signs saying Hunters Welcome, $100 per day per gun. Miraculously the front yard bird shooting stopped. Sad thing was, we even had a gate they had to open at the end of the lane to get access to the property with a sign on it.
You know, it's a sad situation when people feel they can come onto anyone's property without the property owner's permission. But . . . it's totally different if someone comes onto their property uninvited. Two phrases come to mind – 1) "do unto others before they do unto you"; and 2) "you just can't fix stupid". Sad, but oh so true!!!
oldIrish
Member
DD,
you've posted two threads that have been both entertaining and informative. From what I recall of the first one,
both you and your wife had taken steps to balance out what you thought were areas where you felt vulnerable.
Post your "No trespassing" signs and quietly go about putting the other practical solutions in place.
Sippy Wallace had a great line in one of her songs...
"Women be wise, Keep your mouth shout, don't advertise your
man" Seems this can be applied to many areas of life.
you've posted two threads that have been both entertaining and informative. From what I recall of the first one,
both you and your wife had taken steps to balance out what you thought were areas where you felt vulnerable.
Post your "No trespassing" signs and quietly go about putting the other practical solutions in place.
Sippy Wallace had a great line in one of her songs...
"Women be wise, Keep your mouth shout, don't advertise your
man" Seems this can be applied to many areas of life.
I love it when hunters tell me the "property owner" gave them permission to hunt..... on my property.....................
Must be having memory issues ..... cus I don't remember giving them permission.....in fact I can't ever remember seeing them before!!!!!!
Must be having memory issues ..... cus I don't remember giving them permission.....in fact I can't ever remember seeing them before!!!!!!
Muss-It's obvious this is a parody. None of my friends that drive Dodge Ram duellies would be caught dead in a Chevrolet hat.
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