Guy switches from .45 to 9mm after gunfight

I carried a SIG P226 in combat and never had a problem with it or the round (M882 ammo) I just recognized it's limitations and directed the rounds appropriatly.
If said officer feels better with the 9mm more power to him, I continue to use the cartridge and pistols chambered for it. Yes I own .45s but I figured out a long time ago that it isn't the round or the gun that wins the fight, it's the PERSON behind it!
Dale
 
Well, I can understand why he switched. I have a Para high cap .45 that I have always shot very well. Very well until I shot it in a steel match a month ago. The results are making me consider trading it off.

Why?

Because in the rapid fire match the torque was twisting the big Para out of my normal grip . . . thus making me miss. I'm a very good shot, and have won over 100 matches, but after that Para began to twist in my hand I was in deep trouble!!!

I have fairly small hands and the Para is quite wide. However, in slow fire at the range it works good . . . but NOT under the clock during a "fast and furious" type match.

Many folks just plink with their handguns, but when they must keep up a sustained rate of fire under stress they may discover their gun twists out of their grip too . . . and thus causes them to not shoot well. I surely learned my lesson!
 
I swore I'd never get into the "X" vs. "X" discussion. It always boils down to "different strokes," but....

I have only one comment. [And keep in mind that I carry both calibers in question on a 50/50 basis]

If, as stated, one shouldn't blame the 45 for misses while under fire, and [as I can certainly say from experience] you get a little wild when people are shooting at you, no matter how practiced you are....

Doesn't that just support the idea of capacity being just a little more important than first thought?

If after all, you're bound to miss...shouldn't you have more rounds to make up for the inevitable "freak out factor?"


I'm not sayin'....I'm just saying...


Len
 
I maintain that a person get accurate with practice. It does not matter if you use a .380, a 9mm or a .500.

Police officers are notorious for not shooting their sidearms until it is time to qualify. They do not practice as a general rule.

I shoot a .45acp 2-3 times weekly and can hit whatever I am aiming at and I am fairly accurate with point shooting. I did not get this way because I shoot a .45acp but rather I practice with the .45acp.

I would have to agree.

Besides, I've never seen a Sig P220 that wasn't dead nuts accurate.
 
We all see the impossible shots on TV and in the movies that the good guys seem to make unfailingly. Snap shots from the ground level at folks on a roof 50 yards away and the like with a snub nosed revolver or such - Hollywood baloney; but as several have already said - if you want to shoot well you have to shoot A LOT.

Shooting is like any other physical endeavor as far as the muscle memory, visual cues, balance and familiarity by repetition. Ask an NFL quarterback or a MLB pitcher how accurate they are if they don't throw a ball for three months.

Yet, MOST folks, not just cops, seem to think that in a life and death situation where the targets are actually shooting back they will be able to perform that which they would have difficulty doing well under range conditions under less time constraints, not to mention less stress. (as an aside I am constantly amazed at the bragging about shots people claim to be able to make under time constraints and distances - even when they are ON the range where it could be verified; when asked to demonstrate such amazing skills they always seem to have a reason why they cannot do it at that particular place and time but still cling to the notion that they have done it and could do it again if only they had their own gun, or their own reloads, or whatever :rolleyes:).

I've always maintained most people CAN'T shoot. At least not as well as the general population tends to believe. IN MY EXPERIENCE the AVERAGE gun owner spends very little time (if any) in actual practice and working on the fundamentals even if the individual practices regular concealed carry for self defense. They just don't. Those here who shoot weekly or even monthly and expend any significant number of rounds are the exception rather than the rule. This extends to police officers as well. I've known many that only shot their sidearms when required to by their departments for qualification purposes, whether quarterly, semi-annually, or annually. And that usually consisted of no more than 50 to 100 rounds at those times.

Thankfully, in the last 25 to 30 years there seem to be many more "survival oriented" officers on the streets that do pay attention to weapon choice and marksmanship, but looking at the big picture I would stand by my above comments.

If you want to do something well, you must do it often. If you want to do something exceptionally well, you must do it constantly. Shooting is no different from anything else in that regard.

That the officer in the original post hit 3 for 8 at 35 yards while under return fire and was using a major caliber handgun is actually pretty good performance. Add the luck and the fact that he went home and the scumbag went to the morgue, hard to argue with the results. As far as his switching to the 9MM, in a case like this officer, I would tend to take the view it's more the singer than the song. He will do as well or better with a 9MM because it appears he's more comfortable with it and I would wager he PRACTICES religiously.
 
To each his own for their own reasons. I don't second guess why people carry what they do but I can understand this cop's choice.

I've carried .45ACP, .40S&W, 357SIG, and 9mm in Glocks, H&Ks, S&Ws, and 1911s on duty. The one I have finally settled on as my absolute go to for duty carry, off duty, night stand, you name it this is the one I'm grabbing gun is...drum roll please...a 9mm 1911. I know, I know - heretic, blasphemer, yada yada yada - but I shoot my S&W SW1911 9mm Pro Series better and faster than any handgun I've ever owned and I'm confident that if I have to shoot something I can hit it with this gun. I've shot both it and my worked over Springfield Loaded .45 in the same matches, same courses of fire, same gear, just switching guns and mags, and I am consistently faster and more accurate with the 9mm than the .45. I have an alloy framed CCO size 9mm 1911 that I carry off duty for consistency of platform and caliber. It works for me!
 
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I carried a .45 for years, both on and off duty. I was good with it, as I practiced, and my practice was revealed when I always maxed out the semi-annual qualifications, much to the chagrin of some of the younger guys.
However, I now carry a 9mm and I'm very comfortable with its, and my, ability to defend myself. To me, my comfort level is much more important than any debate on ballistic differences between 9mm and .45ACP.
 
Many folks just plink with their handguns, but when they must keep up a sustained rate of fire under stress they may discover their gun twists out of their grip too . . . and thus causes them to not shoot well. I surely learned my lesson!

Good point. If you can't get it back on target for the second shot of a double tap, you need to rethink your choice. I practice double taps with my "carry" guns while hoping I'll never have the need to use the skill in real life.
 
Pecos, because in dozens of cases, it works just exactly as well as a .45 or any other handgun round. Shot placement and adequate penetration are what you need to effect a stop - dozens of other things may get you a stop, but these are the only two consistent things in the now more than 200 handgun killing cases I've worked on.
 
From the outside looking in:

Cold and clinically, if one reviews the details of the original post, it sounds like the issue, if any, is that more practice is what would have improved his shots-to-hits ratio. Caliber is irrelevant.

Now, factoring in all the real world stuff that's ABSENT in the cold and clinical approach, a grenade is thrown, heartily and handily, in the middle of it all. Mental stress level, adrenalyn, physical condition...y'know...not to mention that at the time, YOU'RE BRING FIRED ON!!!...

I've never exchanged fire with anyone so to monday-morning-Qback about this would be no more than attempting an exercise in self-validation.

I must honestly say, however, that I'd be a little squirrelly about downsizing from my .45. BUT once again, I've never been there so my concerns are based on theory only.


Hmmm...

Glad the encounter ended the way it did, regardless.
 
I'm totally unqualified to proffer any carry advice to anyone. As for myself, I fould myself flinching with my Beretta 40. I acquired a Beretta 92 and even with Winchester Ranger +P's, it is totally manageable. In my case, precise shot placement whether in DA or SA mode is a MAJOR confidence builder. While on active duty, we did extensive work with the Beretta in DA mode. We would shoot a round, decock, lower the weapon and reengage in DA mode. This was to get the newbies accustomed to the DA trigger. If people have ultimate confidence in themselves with a 1911, Glock, M&P, Beretta or whatever, that, to me is the best gauge of weapon handling ability.
 
I'm glad that we had quite a bit of latitude as to what we could carry in my day. As a card-carrying dinosaur (and instructor) I stayed with a
4" .357 right up to the end. I never could shoot the SIG 220 all that well and the Glock 17 wasn't my thing either. For some reason I shoot the Sigma (S&W's Glock) pretty well. OTOH the 1911 platform was a first love--but not authorized.

I agree that different people handle different weapons better and worse. We should make allowances for it within reason and take advantage of it. On qualification days I had to haul out .45, 9mm and .357 ammo, and everybody shot what he liked. There were still some pistoleros in those days and oddly enough the level of proficiency was pretty darned good.

I have my preference (ok, BIASES) but if somebody can get results with the gun and caliber of his preferences, I am not going to sneer at his choice. He might be the "cowboy in the continental suit" to my great embarassment.
 
A lot of folks who question 9mm effectiveness seem to be locked in a time warp. In case they hadn't noticed 9mm and every other round out there, has gotten better over the years (you gotta love technology). I can't even count how many choices you have just in 9mm. Thirty years ago...not so much, but then how big was your cell phone 30 years ago??? Just about every LE agency in the country carried 9mm for years as they all migrated from wheel guns and many still do. That's good enough for me but largely because 9mm (in my case an MP9c), is what I shoot best. As always....YMMV.

I carry Winchester JHP +P loads in my Browning and while I wouldn't ever shoot it as a steady diet, anything that puts a short cartirdige like the 9mm on a par with a .357 Magnum...and with 14 shots to boot...is something in its favor.
 
I carry either a SIG 220 in .45, a Glock G17, Ruger SR9, or EMP 9mm. Happy and confident with all. No problem with either caliber. Probably why I've never owned a .40, I don't see a reason!

Oh yeah, I also carry and like the .38 special, .357 magnum, and 10mm. But none of those is a daily carry, more special purpose such as deep conceal or woods hiking.

Carry what you shoot best!
 
Just 1 guy's Thought

9MM I think of as a last resort.
start big and work down till you have something that works for you ... if it happens to be a 9MM .. then I guess it's better than fists.

Having worked 100+ Officer shooting along with a far share of homicides, 9mm will almost always get the job done. Today's torso recovered modern SD Ammo are bt a nickel and a dime in size and doing 9-11". Always worked for me?
 
Pecos, because in dozens of cases, it works just exactly as well as a .45 or any other handgun round. Shot placement and adequate penetration are what you need to effect a stop - dozens of other things may get you a stop, but these are the only two consistent things in the now more than 200 handgun killing cases I've worked on.
I'd like a more detailed explanation on why you ditched the 40 entirely. My reason is that as an instructor I have a LOT of people (Mostly women) say "I'm new to armed self defense, what do you recommend?". What follows is a VERY detailed evaluation on my part. After verifying the student's mindset and teaching basics with a 22, I try to get the student into the largest, most powerful gun they can handle reliably (Read: They feel comfortable with). This usually entails their using a pistol/revolver from my accumulation. The 40 does have operational disadvantages for most new shooters, but some take to it like a duck to water.
I'm just curious if 'Im missing some aspect here.
P.S. I've carried a 45 ACP 1911 for 35+ years and now have the resulting back problems. I'm going to switch to a 45c M&P (8 ozs lighter) or a 40c M&P (14 ozs lighter- feels like nothin').
_______________________
Boxers or briefs? At my age, Depends.
 
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I not only think that the OP's friend did the right thing, based on HIS experience and evaluation, I think I may have even lucked into understanding it. The 220 is not such a small gun. It may not fit his hand as well as the 226. Even the 226 is marginal for me.

I generally try to carry a gun that I shoot well, and I'll probably never have to use it. I can certainly sympathize with an LEO who is trying to do the same thing.
 
Zombie thread. :D

With modern defensive ammo, service calibers from .38 to .45 have a lot more in common than not.

What the heck's a "feebie"?
 
Re: OP. Good for him. Bullets are not magic. They make holes. Put holes in the right places and people fall down. Not impressed with the idea of a handgun bullet shocking anyone except at hard off the muzzle distances. Lots of very effective 9mm loads available. A Sig 226 w/ quality ammo would easily be a first round draft pick for just about any possible eventuality. Same with a .40 S&W... excellent round. As well, the 9mm and to a lesser extent the .40 offer higher capacity in common pistols. In the op, the officer emptied his 220... a 226 or G-17 would have still be running.
 
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