Had some trouble with S&W, but they took care of it

[tenntex32]

Not to throw fuel on the fire but part of the fun of buying a "new to me" revolver is the detailed inspection prior to purchase.

That being said I have bought rather few brand new guns. Those that were brand new were looked over very thoroughly, and nothing was assumed with regards to fit, finish, and function.

There is a reason I gravitate towards the "older" guns, fit, finish, and function wise.

I hope the OP gets satisfaction from S&W with regards to his PC example.

Dale

 

[sigp220.45]

Hell, I've picked up new guns from the dealer and not even opened the box til I got home.

The OP paid big bucks for a brand-new "Performance Center" gun from a first-tier gun maker. It should be right.

After two trips to the Mothership it still isn't right.

I think he's been polite enough. I love my Smiths, but man - time to put the Kool Aid down.

 

[BigBill]

I looked over new and used guns. I think one of my newer n frames has the barrel skewed but only a hair off well within the movement of the rear sight. No biggie nothing I can fix in the vice with a pipe wrench lmao. Nothing to get up set over it's a piece of metal and will be here when I'm dead and gone. My days are numbered and I'm short timing now. As long as they go bang I'm happy. Lol

 

[Bumpus13]

Of course we do. Guns are being produced at record levels. We have more access to social media than ever before, where it didn't even exist for decades.

The human mind also, intentionally, even lessens/forgets past negatives as time goes on.

Everything about today lends to this greater *perception*.

I have little doubt we're producing far, far better guns than have ever been done so before at a much higher quality rate even.

Factor in how relative prices have dropped greatly and the quality of gun produced today is frankly just incredible.

Much to the disagreement of some, even some on these boards, man is far better today than yesterday. The back-in-my-day-ers couldn't be more wrong.

I definitely agree there's something to this.

You didn't hear as much about the problems back in the day, simply because you didn't have access to as many people back in the day.

The internet is a game changer.


Edit: That being said ... The barrel on the OP's gun is completely unacceptable, and hopefully they can finally get it right this time. I'd be livid too.

 

[Benchrest1]

I've bought quite a few new S&W's. Most are from the Performance Center, and I haven't had any problems so far. However I don't see anything that really makes them any better than the normal guns.

 

[gman51]

It does seem the PC guns have many reports of problems. $1800 for that gun, that barrel should have been gold plated for that much money.
I am guessing whomever reworked your gun had a bad attitude with S&W because nobody should have installed that junk barrel on any gun.
I agree PC doesn't mean the gun gets special building start to finish. It is just a gun off the line with all the others but it has a few upgrades such as trigger work done to it.
I have to say I got a good one when I bought my 627-5 Pro. I found no flaws with it.
I do believe you catch more with honey than sour apples. You might ask who did the repairs on your gun when the junk barrel was installed. Your repair order stating what was done to your gun possibly has the name or initials of who did the work. I would ask to talk to his supervisor and send the supervisor pictures of the barrel. I would also send copies of all the repair orders on your gun. There is no excuse for that junk barrel put on your gun. Somebody should be fired over that repair. You just might get a new gun because that one has a heavy tint of yellow on it.
I would inform someone that the picture of the barrel is being seen on a gun forum. Tell him the forum members are waiting to hear what S&W did about this total poor CS.

 

[Gunna1day]

This is a sad story indeed and I hope the OP eventually gets this mess sorted. This is a common occurrence these days unfortunately and not just with S&W. Jump on the ruger forum and there are plenty of posts on unhappy Ruger customers there too. But from what I hear Rugers customer service is outstanding. As I have said before I would rather buy a good older model S&W or ruger firearm that was made with a lot more TLC than some of the rubbish produced these days.
It's the results of machines doing most of the work and less hands on like the good old days. That together with poor quality control and this is what happens. It's getting almost like a lucky dip when purchasing new guns these days and it's just not good enough.

 

[tda003]

I think that the "coulda, shoulda", etc. posts to the OP are off the mark. The issue here, as I see it, is that Smith sent a flawed revolver out to the gun store that should never have left the CS in that condition and then seemed incapable or unwilling to make it right. What anyone else would have done when purchasing a firearm is totally irrelevant. The fault is S&W's.

I certainly understand his frustration, but agree that he should keep his anger in check while trying to get the revolver properly repaired.

Also, I would absolutely contact Smith's CEO about the issue, documenting the issue and with accompanying photo(s).

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I think a big reason behind the lack of quality control is the internet. I ponder what would be on the net about S&W's back in the Bangor Punta era had the net been invented then. If I remember correctly there was a school of thought regarding the difference between Bangor Punta and Lear Sigler Smiths but you only got to read about it in the monthly gun rags and then if you actually bought one and paid hard cash for it. Not to excuse true quality control issues, but Let's face facts boys-we are spoiled with instant information. Who knows what would be going around regarding the earlier Smiths if we has the communications we have now. Our "internet" pretty much consisted of gun shows and showing off guns at the camp, barbershop, gunshop or whatever gathering place we frequented. I remember obsessing over a tiny discoloration on my Model 63 along the black sight. Hell, I even got the sales clerk to knock off $10. If I has the internet, I could have posted pictures, wa wa'ed about it ad infinitum and so forth. Instead I pretty much forgot about it and shot and enjoyed the gun.

 

[Borderboss]

I think that it's horrible that the LGS, which the OP is a repeat customer of, actually decided to sell guns that it knew were sub-par. The LGS could have easily sent them back to the distributor or S&W, depending on how they get their stock. Instead, the LGS decided to sell it to a good customer.

Seems like the LGS should be losing a good customer right about now.

 

[LostintheOzone]

This is why I don't buy new S&W's. I know that doesn't solve your problem but if you bought a new car and continually had to take it to the dealer for warranty work would you buy another one. I wouldn't. Lots of stuff gets built this way these days so S&W isn't a standout company. Ruger and Colt also do it.

I bought a new S&W 625 about 6 years ago for $1000. It wasn't up to my standards so I'm not going to fight it. Just not buying anymore. Problem solved.

Just purchased a J frame built in 68. Took it to the range on Friday. Beautiful piece of work. Happy, happy.

 

[D1911]

I've never heard of a manufacturer refunding a consumer. If they did we'd hear about it all the time because everybody and their brother would demand their money back for a gun that "didn't work" for some reason or another instead of getting something fixed like a broken sight or something stupid like that that could be easily fixed by a local gunsmith. Not saying that's the case here, but rationally speaking i doubt that'll happen, but who knows. I say keep sending it back until they get to know you by name and phone number.

A number of years ago when S&W came out with the 8-shot 627 PC gun, I bought one from my LGS. I was pretty giddy with it when I looked at it at the shop, and probably didn't look it over like I should have. But once I got it home, I noticed the "PERFORMANCE CENTER" stamp on the side of the barrel was stamped at an angle; nothing crazy, but it wasn't straight. I contacted S&W and told them my concerns, they sent me a return tag and back it went. Shortly thereafter, I got a call from one of the smiths at the PC and he agreed the stamping was off. He also said he looked at the other barrels for that model that they had on hand, and all were stamped the same. They offered another gun or a refund, so I took the refund. Sent them my receipt for the gun, they sent me a check. It was painless and they were great to work with.

 

[LostintheOzone]

A number of years ago when S&W came out with the 8-shot 627 PC gun, I bought one from my LGS. I was pretty giddy with it when I looked at it at the shop, and probably didn't look it over like I should have. But once I got it home, I noticed the "PERFORMANCE CENTER" stamp on the side of the barrel was stamped at an angle; nothing crazy, but it wasn't straight. I contacted S&W and told them my concerns, they sent me a return tag and back it went. Shortly thereafter, I got a call from one of the smiths at the PC and he agreed the stamping was off. He also said he looked at the other barrels for that model that they had on hand, and all were stamped the same. They offered another gun or a refund, so I took the refund. Sent them my receipt for the gun, they sent me a check. It was painless and they were great to work with.

Smith employees must have a lot of opportunities to purchase returns at a substantial savings.

 

[LVSteve]

Last time I saw finish like that on a gun it was on the OUTSIDE of a 1943 production Mosin Nagant rifle from Ishevsk.

My 686 has an EDM barrel and it is superb. But my M&P 9L has an almost frosted appearance in the grooves. Apparently, they are all like that. SMH.

 

[flagman1776]

I get the OP's frustration but losing it isn't going to help. I think I'd go the S&W President route. Copy all correspodance to date. Document all the dates. Include pictures. Lots of pictures of every flaw.
Be super polite. Like someone who's PISSED but you just know they are simmering.

I hope this will get you a fixed gun faster with less ping-pongs than continuing via standard CS route. I believe you will eventually get a satisfactory gun but you shouldn't have to do this.

 

[Bayou52]

After reading accounts like the one in this thread, and they are not limited to the S&W brand, I'm feeling less and less confidence about buying any handgun, new or used, unless I can personally handle it and fully inspect it first.

Bayou52

 

[Gene L]

Back when I was with the PD, we were armed with revolvers and occasionally upgraded to newer models. Even back then, we had to send revolvers back.

Another thing to consider as a cause, not an excuse, is most if not all the old revolver gunsmiths with years of experience have retired. There is less handfitting because computer-machined make its necessity limited.

Got a friend who went to revolver school at s&w back in the 80s. The school was, IIRC, two weeks long and involved a lot of filing and fitting.

Fairly recently, he went to Smith's automatic school. He said there were warehouses of covered, unused revolver machines. The autos were put together from parts in buckets, as a lot of autos are. (Including Glocks...I went to the Glock Armorer's Course. Lasted less than a day.) I don't think autos need such tight tolerances since there isn't as much going on inside an auto.

I recently bought a 442 (without the hole) and it's an excellent little gun. Good trigger, so Smith still makes good revolvers. A lemon apparently slips through the line; I wouldn't let one bad apple speak for the entire barrel.

I've got a Shield, and it's fine. I typically don't buy new firearms, but when I do, I don't inspect them. Maybe if I paid $1800 I would, though.

 

[bmcgilvray]

Of course we do. Guns are being produced at record levels. We have more access to social media than ever before, where it didn't even exist for decades.

The human mind also, intentionally, even lessens/forgets past negatives as time goes on.

Everything about today lends to this greater *perception*.

I have little doubt we're producing far, far better guns than have ever been done so before at a much higher quality rate even.

Factor in how relative prices have dropped greatly and the quality of gun produced today is frankly just incredible.

Much to the disagreement of some, even some on these boards, man is far better today than yesterday. The back-in-my-day-ers couldn't be more wrong.

As a completely ossified "back-in-my-day-er" fogy and contrarian, I gotta disagree. If guns are better today then it's only because of low-cost materials and economical manufacturing techniques. Far better guns of higher quality aren't being produced, rather only cheaper guns are being produced. A generation of shooters has completely bought into the notion of "less is more," partially due to marketing which perversely paints a false picture of "perfection," a certain "reverse snobbery" that the new stuff is better than the old stuff. It's a case of "The Emporer's New Clothes" Everybody ooos and ahhhs over the wonders of modern arms when there's really nothing there.

I grew up, and throughout most of my adult life esteemed Smith & Wesson revolvers above all others. I bought lots of new ones even back in the Bangor Punta days and still have many of them. They weren't flawless, my beloved late 1970s Model 17-4 has a polish job down its long 8 3/8-inch barrel that'll make one seasick if he looks at it at just the right angle. None were bad though, all giving great function and perfect satisfaction through the years up to the present. Their looks are fabulous compared with current production.

Purchased the last two new Smith & Wesson revolvers in 1996 and 1998 and was especially pleased with the 1996 purchase. Design changes were soon on the horizon though that left me uninterested in new production guns. There's an entire world of fine used "traditional" Smith & Wessons (Colts too) out there waiting to be sampled.

The Forum has both this thread and a thread on the topic of Remington currently running. I am under no illusions that there is anything out there in manufacturers' catalogs superior to the firearms I use and admire. The manufacturers' products and catalogs evolved in the years since I came of age. The market moved as well.

I didn't move. What's more; unless the firearms market "regresses" to the olden days I ain't gonna move. I don't have a consuming desire to sample new guns. I'll happily live with the "guns of my youth" instead.

 

[Invictus357]

Sorry you are having this problem.

Maybe ask SW for a refund and then look elsewhere?

 

[kthom]

It's my considered observation that most folks today are looking for the cheapest price on things. Price is not my first biggest consideration (and not because I have a lot of money!) I think that a very small percentage of even many of us here would be willing to pay the real cost today for guns made like the "finer", "better made" handguns that were subject to the "better quality control" of yesteryear. Most are not willing to pay today's going prices for those old guns that we so highly esteem since we remember when we could buy them for less than a hundred or so dollars back in the day.

I have some revolvers that most would say I paid too much for in today's market. Maybe so, and I have no quarrel with them if they won't give it. Once in a while, somebody finds a great bargain, and I cheer when they do. But I own some revolvers that I had been looking for for a good long while without finding a nice shooter that was still in pretty good physical condition and appearance. Since those were scarce on the ground, not because they were rare, but because those who own them are loathe to get rid of them, you just don't see them often for sale where you can hold them in your hands with plenty of time to really inspect them before you lay your money down. Being able to do that is worth a lot of money to me! I've spent a couple of hours holding the same revolver in my hand while I look and look again before I get out my money. As long as I've got it in my hand, I have the right of first refusal. And usually before I decide there may be two or three guys at my elbows hoping that I'd lay it down so they could pick it up.

Have I ever overlooked something that I should have seen? You bet, but it's been a good while ago! And I make sure that the seller will allow me to bring it back if something is found amiss when I get it home for a very detailed inspection. We pay our money and we take our chances, right? Let the buyer beware has always been good advice. But I don't blame anyone else but myself if I have not done my due diligence. Yes, we can always get a lemon with anything, but it's as important to know who you are dealing with and what you can expect of them as it is to know as much as you can about what you are considering as a purchase. Taking more time in that process can reveal things never revealed when I'm in too big a hurry to buy!!! Just my personal thoughts here for what they might be worth!