Hammer cocks

[lewk68]

What would cause the hammer to cock while holding trigger back in a third gen smith and Wesson auto?

 

[armorer951]

Definitely having trouble understanding this question. Can you possibly re-state the question in a different way?

If you're referring to holding the trigger back and then cycling the slide......the hammer stays back in the cocked position in that scenario because of the disconnector.


Carter

 

[lewk68]

Slide is in forward position and trigger is held back but I can recock the hammer with my thumb , is that normal? This is a DASA pistol 4506

 

[armorer951]

Yes sir, that is normal. Because of the disconnector's function, the trigger will not reset until it is released.

Imagine what would happen if you held the trigger back when firing and a full magazine in the pistol.......... and the disconnector malfunctioned.

You would have an empty magazine in a few milliseconds.



Carter

 

[Dangerman]

If you are worried something is wrong dont. My 915 does the same thing.

Im not sure why anyone would ever try and operate the pistol this way though. I wouldnt consider it good firearms handling.

 

[armorer951]

If you are worried something is wrong dont. My 915 does the same thing.

Im not sure why anyone would ever try and operate the pistol this way though. I wouldnt consider it good firearms handling.

This disconnect/reset cycle happens every time the gun is fired.



Carter

 

[Dangerman]

Yes sir, that is normal. Because of the disconnector's function, the trigger will not reset until it is released.

Imagine what would happen if you held the trigger back when firing and the disconnector malfunctioned.
You would have an empty magazine in a few milliseconds.



Carter

Theres a few pistols that will do this if you remove one part but essentially you have a runaway full auto pistol. Not something I would want to mess with and Ive shot a Glock 18 conversion before. Machine pistols are dangerous for even experienced shooters to handle if they are not practicing with them. My Class 3 friend wanted me to try it (although I wasnt real excited). I unloaded the magazine and started with 2 rounds LOL. After a few times I put 4 rounds in it and tried to learn to control the trigger. Better believe I had a two hand death grip on that Glock too!

 

[Dangerman]

This disconnect/release happens every time you fire the gun.



Carter

We hope!

Ive never had a runaway on a S&W third gen so they seem pretty strong. From what I remember about the XM9 trials it never happened either. S&W actually did very well in those trials.

 

[lewk68]

Reason why I ask this question is because my sig 220 will not let you cock the hammer when the trigger is held back unless you cycle the slide

 

[Dangerman]

Reason why I ask this question is because my sig 220 will not let you cock the hammer when the trigger is held back unless you cycle the slide

I checked my Ruger P series pistols. They wont let you do it either.

 

[lewk68]

So is this caused by a worn disconnector?

 

[Dangerman]

So is this caused by a worn disconnector?

I think it might just be differences in Design from the 3rd Gens to other designs. My 915 is not what I would consider worn. My Berettas and Taurus 92s dont do it either. Ill tear the 915 apart tonight or tomorrow and look for wear but when I bought that pistol I did a complete takedown of the lower to inspect all the fire control parts to understand the mechanism and get it cleaned up (Didnt really need it). IMO I think its just part of the design on the S&W.

Somebody should be able to answer this here though. A lot of people here do conversions on the 3rd gens. Im waiting on parts to do one too but its a DOA pistol. Pulling the trigger all the way back and cocking the hammer is not one of the things I do when function testing a pistol. I never even noticed it until your thread here. Im a little curious as to why the S&W does it myself now. Seems like the disconnector works a little differently on the S&W.

One of the older S&W techs will probably chime in here once they see it and can understand the title of the thread. If not I would put this in the gunsmithing section and try it there.

 

[armorer951]

The original OP question was concerning a third generation SA/DA 4506. There are differences with respect to the DA only S&W design, including a different (or altered) hammer. The OP's disconnector is operating normally.

When activated, or pushed down by the slide. (out of battery) the disconnector in the SA/DA pistols pushes down on the drawbar, which removes the drawbar's influence on the sear/hammer interface. The hammer of the "in battery" pistol can be brought to the rear by firing, or other intervention, but will stand on the sear until the slide closes and the disconnector allows the drawbar "up", restoring it's contact with the sear. Testing the integrity of the disconnector is done in a confirmed safe pistol by pressing the slide backward slightly out of battery. The trigger should no longer function with the slide out of battery, or "not fully closed" position.

In the DA only scenario, the hammer design is unique, and operates directly through a "camming" interaction with the drawbar. The hammer cams off of its seat on the drawbar as the drawbar is pulled forward by the trigger. There is no "double strike" capability. When the slide cycles after firing, the sear in these guns puts the hammer in the "pick up" position for the drawbar, interrupting it's compete downward fall.

Clear as mud.



Carter

 

[stansdds]

The Browning Hi-Power cannot be cocked when the trigger is pulled to the rear. It's just a different fire control system design.

 

[lewk68]

I’m guessing that’s the way smith designed it, was wondering if anyone with a third gen smith auto can check if there pistol does that too

 

[lewk68]

Thank you dangerman for checking your 915.

 

[armorer951]

I’m guessing that’s the way smith designed it, was wondering if anyone with a third gen smith auto can check if there pistol does that too

All of the S&W SA/DA variants do this.


Carter