HAS ANYONE NOTICED THE "NEW METHOD" OF COCKING A SEMI-AUTO?

[tmd17]

More concerning to me than how some rack their slides back with a red dot is the growing dependency on electronics for a close quarter self defense handgun.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Red Dots are GOOD!!

If you're as old as I am with tired eyes red dots are very important. The dots are built to withstand the constant slamming of the slide when firing. I can assure all you worry-warts that using the red dot body to rack the slide is minimal stress vs. shooting.

Take a collective deep breath and find something else to fret about!

 

[Old cop]

I'm old too, set in my ways & I don't have a red dot on anything. Watching videos over time I noticed the same thing, mostly younger people, and it occurs to me that could damage the screws holding the red dot in place. All said, not a good idea IMHO.

 

[Fishinfool]

Re / mount strength. Just a couple of years ago, a buddy I cross bow hunt with started carrying his cross bow by the scope, like an AR with a carry handle. Said it was plenty strong enough.

That season, he jumped about 5 feet off a rock, while holding his bow by the scope. The impact of the landing separated the scope base screws from the bow.

I have a number of range and hunting handguns with optics, and have never utilized them to carry the gun, or work a slide. Just seems like common sense?

Larry

 

[Gene L]

I have a red dot on a Buckmark. I wouldn't put one on a CF.

As for practice distance, 3-5 yards is enough to get you on paper. It represents a good GetOffMe range. A lot of other stuff is "gaming." Like running toward a target from 25 yards off...hardly Defensive Shooting. More like Offensive Shooting and unless you're in the military or law enforcement, or unless you're playing a shooting game you have the right to run away and increase the distance between you and the threat.

 

[max503]

but it seems like every tacticool guy on YT videos is doing it after they themselves saw it on a YT video. Next thing you know, they'll all be ... stabbing it forward as they pull the trigger.

Hey! I remember the old-time cowboys doing this on the black and white Westerns!

What goes around comes around!

 

[max503]

I didn't know optical sights on a handgun served a purpose until now.

Plates and bowling pins.

 

[Gene L]

Hey! I remember the old-time cowboys doing this on the black and white Westerns!

What goes around comes around!

On "The Cisco Kid" sidekick Pancho would thrust his pistol foreword from his wrist when shooting. No fast draw, just a motion like he was casting a flyrod.

 

[luvsmiths]

A red dot on a handgun is the first thing wrong here.

Next the kids will be scoping them.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I see hunters carrying their rifles by the scope(using it for a handle)........I smile and move on along. As you stated. Lots of stupid stuff out there...Most want to be a cool tactical tommy.

 

[ken158]

Just like guns with slide locks and some owners want them to be slide releases

 

[luvsmiths]

I see hunters carrying their rifles by the scope(using it for a handle)........I smile and move on along. As you stated. Lots of stupid stuff out there...Most want to be a cool tactical tommy.

Well, we know that the animals they shoot at will be safe.

 

[Skeet 028]

I hunted with a fellow..had a pre 1950 M-70...Stith mount and scope. It was a 257 Rbts. Carry that rifle like that a lot . I called him one shot Bob. I really wanted that rifle...Wouldn't sell it. I did buy a pre war Super Grade Hornet from him though. Still have it more than 40 years later. It has a Stith mount with an old Weaver K-4 with a Leitschert (sp) 2 X multiplier. Pretty rifle and worth a ton...but not very accurate. Those scopes and mounts were, like the rifles, all steel

 

[Skeet 028]

Haven't even thought about it till just now.. I have a commander size Kimber 45 with laser grips on it. Bought it that way from a friend. I did check to see if they were sighted. Right on about 20 yards. Hell at 20 yards I will be hiding behind a tree or car or getting out of Dodge. I also had a red dot on a Ruger 22 target gun...bought it that way too. I do have to say it was a rabbit shooting handgun...but NOT a carry piece

 

[kbm6893]

Off topic, no doubt, but OP brought it to mind. Back in the 60s and 70s, the Army taught a method of racking your 1911 slide with one arm incapacitated. It involved hooking the rear sight on your belt or boot top to gain purchase and pushing the butt down with your good arm hand. Didn't work very well, but any port in a storm.

We were taught that in the police academy in the 90's gunbelt or boot was used.

 

[steelslaver]

I got zero redots and only 2 center fire semis. While racking on with a Red Dot might not be the best plan I bet the G forces that it goes though under recoil are more intense than when you rack it. Stationary, bang, Slammed back, dead stop, sprung forward , dead stop. All in all in .06667 of a second.

Very few slides crack from being racked, that happens when they are being fired, . That is why sight screws can shear off.

 

[scooter123]

Steelslaver has it correct, the G forces imparted by recoil of the slide make the force needed to cycle the slide by hand is NOTHING. When red dots were first tried on Semi's the loads imparted by recoil basically had the sights flying off the slide within 500 rounds or less and common wisdom was they just didn't work on a semi. This then caused the red dot manufacturer's to downsize the sights and use exceptionally strong materials for their construction and these sights are now "keystoned" into the slide by a precision milled cut in the slide. End result is these sights will now provide a good service life.

Personally I have 3 red dots sights, all on 3 different revolvers that produce exceptional accuracy. As a result they are great for shooting from a rest and get used perhaps once every two or three years. Because I have found that it is very easy to become dependent on these sights and when that happens you won't be able to hit a barn using iron sights. With the exception of my precision rifle which has a scope mounted all of my rifles feature Iron Sights. Yeah, I'm a Geezer, but I am a Geezer who can hit 1 inch targets at 100 yards with plain old Iron Sights. BTW, I can also hit a 108mm disk flying at 45 mph at 40 yards using a 410 shotgun and find that much more fun than shooting any paper target. That's a hint folks, get out there and start busting Clays with a shotgun and you'll find it's a lot more challenging hitting a moving target that it is to shoot at something sitting still. It's also a much bigger thrill when you start hitting well and shoot some straights.

 

[luvsmiths]

I'm pretty sure that Paul Bart, Mall cop, has a red dot on his personal carry, outside of the mall.

 

[WR Moore]

Just like guns with slide locks and some owners want them to be slide releases

Somewhere on this site, there's a copy of the appropriate page of the Army's original manual for the 1911. One was instructed to use the "slide stop" to release the slide after inserting a loaded magazine.

Don't confuse nomenclature with function. Or in this case, multiple functions. The "slide stop" also keeps the slide assembly on the frame.

 

[smoothshooter]

It's not something I would do, but the stresses on the electronic sight mount and screws would be much greater from the violent slamming fore and aft of the slide each time the gun is fired than from the method you described.

 

[Echo40]

I never got into the whole red dots on pistols craze, but it sounds like the sort of thing that could cause problems to me.

AFAIK, optics aren't designed to double as a means to rack a slide more easily.

 

[BillBro]

Ill go with the old fart mentality, with which I agree. Just seems like it cant be good for your optics window, the coating and unnecessarily hard on the mount. I bet they think it looks cool though, and it must be if youre seeing it on YT too!! So tactical.
Emergency(hand or arm has taken a round or two, missing a few digits etc..) situation ok, I can see it but just to look tactucal then no, just stupidity.

 

[lrrifleman]

I have more handguns than digits, but only 4 wear red dots ... and only because after 50 years of shooting irons, I wanted to give it a try.

My Ruger Mk III 22/45 Target is now wearing an RDS for Indoor Precision Pistol matches ... it's an experiment.

My G17.5 MOS has an RDS for the MOS division, it is starting to help my speed and hits.

My Sig P320 Xcompact now has an RDS only because when I am shooting at the Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit, we shoot under IDPA rules, and because I carry/use a laser, I have to shoot in the carry optics division. Even though I tend to hold my own, in time plus events, the shooters using red dots are leaving me in the dust!

My Sig P365-380 is now wearing an RDS, not so much as my carry gun, but more as a training aid for the bigger Sig and the Glock.

At the Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit, because of the number and variety of challenged shooters, we are all taught how to rack the slide on less common surfaces, most often utilizing the rear sight (and guaranteed way to destroy a standard Glock sight) but in an emergency situation, anything goes!

That said, it's always good to have iron sights that you can depend on!

 

[rockquarry]

Ill go with the old fart mentality, with which I agree. Just seems like it cant be good for your optics window, the coating and unnecessarily hard on the mount. I bet they think it looks cool though, and it must be if youre seeing it on YT too!! So tactical.
Emergency(hand or arm has taken a round or two, missing a few digits etc..) situation ok, I can see it but just to look tactucal then no, just stupidity.

Yes, and it appears that many of today's shooters are not gun people, sort of like many of their YouTube idols.

 

[CA Escapee]

More concerning to me than how some rack their slides back with a red dot is the growing dependency on electronics for a close quarter self defense handgun.

After reading a few posts here I thought what if it DOES break? It could be an "Aww shucks" moment for the shooter, then they may have to learn how to use the sights real quick.

If they're still alive, they'll probably go on YouBoob and tell the world not to buy that brand of red dot sight, (because they're training to be an Internet "Influencer," and) it broke when they did it.

I guess it's their money and they'll have to look for another one to torture.

 

[WR Moore]

While the private citizen data base does show the average distance of an armed encounter to be 5 yards, the longest range has been 27 yards. For those of us of a certain age, that's a range where the optic really comes into it's own. Reduced light is another. Admittedly, if available, my first instinct at 27 yards is to get behind cover.

Also, for others "of a certain age", I've found a nice stainless front sight to be much better than the basic black sight.

 

[DUSTYDOGDAN]

The only thing I can think of is some company gave them the red dot and told them to try and break it. I only have one pistol with a red dot and you will not be finding me racking it on the rocks out in the High Desert of Idaho any time soon.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Someone forgot to tell Officer Brown that it takes two hands to rack a round.

Time stamp 1:29.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QKpOlrFzklc[/ame]

 

[BB57]

I saw 1911's in the 1970's with tall sights, so you can rack the-slide on a countertop or table!

The first time your female unit discovered that gouge in the furniture, you learned not to do that in the house!

Ivan

You can still find that style of sight.

It's not a feature in my opinion but I won't walk away from one either.

I don't recall much talk about using the edge of a table top or counter top. Today, most of them have rounded edges and would not work, although those old classic 1950s and 1960s metal edged tables would be perfect.

However, I do recall a lot of discussion about being able to use the seam on a pair of jeans or the edge of a pocket to rack the slide. This was felt to be of use in the mall nija scenario of its time of being shot in one arm and being unable to rack the slide with the just the use of one arm without such a device.

Personally, my thoughts were:
- don't run your 1911 dry to get where you need to rack the slide to reload;
- if it jams and you need to do a tap, rack, bang, you need two hands anyway; and
- if you ran it dry and or jammed it and you are also shot in an arm and can't use it, you're probably not going to survive the engagement anyway.

 

[BB57]

While the private citizen data base does show the average distance of an armed encounter to be 5 yards, the longest range has been 27 yards. For those of us of a certain age, that's a range where the optic really comes into it's own. Reduced light is another. Admittedly, if available, my first instinct at 27 yards is to get behind cover.

Also, for others "of a certain age", I've found a nice stainless front sight to be much better than the basic black sight.

Being of a certain age, I still prefer iron sights.

I teach people to bring the pistol up into their line of sight, place the front sight on target, and then pause to refine the sight picture and align the front sight with the rear sights, then hold that sight picture while they release the shot.

Over time and hundreds of repetitions the muscles in their hand "learn" to hold the pistol so that the sights are already aligned when the pistol comes up and the front sight is placed on target.

At that point any pause in the process is just to confirm the front sight is on target and or that the target still needs to be shot. For example if you just delivered a controlled pair center of mass, and are transitioning for a "failure to stop" head shot, but the target is now going down, a third shot is probably over kill.

From that perspective, and with tritium night sights installed, I just don't see any real advantage to having a red dot sight installed on self defense handgun.

A laser is even worse as it's taking the focus off the front sight and gets away from basic fundamentals that help you develop a grip that produces consistent sights alignment, unless you train to put the laser dot right on top of the front blade, which is just another form of sight alignment.

I also have a bit of an astigmatism in my left eye, a hold over from an altercation with an assailant and a broken cheek bone in my law enforcement days. That slight astigmatism results in a comma shaped dot and I get the effect when shooting with both eyes open, even though my right eye is dominant. It's a non issue at close range, but it is an issue for longer range precision shooting at 25 plus yards.