Has Anyone Used This 9mm Ammo

[Beauetienne]

I've read varying opinions on this ammo that range from it being made for sub-machine guns and it is not safe for anything else, to it being just a little hotter than standard 9mm.

Anyone here actually shot this stuff.

PS
The 'Danger' was written on the box by me in the event of my untimely death and my not having determined whether it is or isn't too hot for modern 9mm's.

 

[Joe4d]

100 gr sp at about 1340,,, nothing to right home about. Corbons 115's are about that

 

[WR Moore]

Hirtenberger ammunition, like most European ammo, is made to the CIP standards rather than SAAMI. That means it's slightly hotter than most of the standard pressure mass produced stuff here in the US. If the previous poster is correct about the velocity, that would appear to be standard CIP velocities/pressures for that weight of bullet.

While I haven't used that particular ammo, I have used 9 mm Hirtenberger and Geco in the past and found it slightly more muscular than similar US ammo of the same type. This is in line with what one would expect from the different standards. (Plus, the US companies down loaded 9 mm for decades, allegedly to protect us from cheap, unsafe foreign guns.)

The law enforcement label refers more to the bullet type. The vast majority of handgun ammo produced in Europe is FMJ of some type.

Checking their current website, they're Austrian (and a conglomerate) and appear to no longer bother with small arms ammunition. That might vary depending upon how much money is involved.

 

[TomkinsSP]

100 gr sp at about 1340,,, nothing to right home about. Corbons 115's are about that

IIRC somebody is selling 50 grain SD ammo for 9x19 with 2000 fps advertised.

 

[rwsmith]

Law Enforcement Grade..

Sounds hot. SO, I wouldn't use it in my smaller, lighter pistols, but other than that. Sometimes I do shoot hot stuff in those pistols, but sparingly.

 

[okiegtrider]

Did a little search for Hirtenberger 9mm. Seems there is a bit of internet legend on some forums about this brand.

Found this online that suggests that what you have there is not likely any more dangerous or higher pressure than most other commercial ammo. Unless you have the head stamps described here, and that seems unlikely, you are probably safe.


"Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320."

 

[Walter Rego]

I shot about a half box of that exact same ammo out of my CZ75. No issues at all.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

They don't appear to be overly "hot", so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

What type of bullet? The only sub-gun 9mm ammo I've ever shot in a handgun was West German (before the wall came down) military/LE that was truncated cone, flat-nose FMJ. A dealer friend gave me a box of 50 back in the late-70s... no data on the box. They did have quite a bark to them. I used to stagger them with regular round-nose FMJs and JHPs in my first Browning HP. Made for interesting shooting.

 

[okiegtrider]

Also found a few photos online of the ammo described in that bulletin.

 

[Beauetienne]

Thanks for all the replies.
This ammo has a headstamp of ' 9mm Luger, HP, and what looks like +P+'.
I'm looking forward to firing it in a Glock 22 with a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel.

 

[RGVshooter]

"Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320."

I'm just curious because I was unable to find any credible source of this info other than this is the same info lifted from other gun forums going back to at least 2008.

Now I reload 9mm and 90-100 grain 9mm is listed with velocities upwards of 1350fps. Which isn't surprising with such a lightweight bullet. My Speer #14 manual only warns on using 147grs bullets in carbines in which barrel pressures would be too high and potentially cause a problem. I would imagine any 9mm bullet heavier than 124grs zipping along in excess of 1200fps would have a brutal recoil & potential damage to the firearm. But a 90-100grs bullet zipping at 1300 would have a nice loud POP, but the recoil would be very manageable. I really doubt it would cause a problem with such a light projectile

Just for reference,The Tokarev TT33's 7.62x25 produces velocities of around 1400fps using a 85gr-90grs bullet yet the recoil is very tame.

 

[RGVshooter]

This ammo has a headstamp of ' 9mm Luger, HP, and what looks like +P+'.

The circle with a "+" inside it is a NATO headstamp

 

[Beauetienne]

The circle with a "+" inside it is a NATO headstamp

Thanks, but no such circle marking on these. Will try to get a good pic.

 

[Steve912]

The circle with a "+" inside it is a NATO headstamp

Hirtenberg produced a 100 gr softpoint that was rated (and
headstamped) "+P+". NATO marking is different animal.

 

[Joe4d]

"Hot" is pretty meaningless if you are judging it off muzzle blast , noise or recoil.
Chrono numbers give velocity and let you know about pressure.
I could easily load 9mm ammo with a slow powder that throws up a big fire ball and recoil but isnt any more powerful than the same load recoiling far less.
Ammo was loaded for Sub machine guns,, its not super powerful, they just used slow powder to take advantage of the longer barrels, shoot it in a short barrel and u get more noise, more fire, more recoil. Same pressure though

 

[okiegtrider]

I'm just curious because I was unable to find any credible source of this info other than this is the same info lifted from other gun forums going back to at least 2008.

Know what? Fair question. I did find that posted on a number of different forums, but not on any government website. I looked high and low before I posted that. The closest I could get to a credible source was a few posts that credited the NRA ILA with forwarding that press release. I found posts going back to 2005 that contain that same text purporting to be a press release from ATF. But nothing on the ATF website. The press releases there only go back to 2013.

So I dunno. Maybe the press release is the real internet legend. Beats me.