Hatfields and McCoys History Channel. Monday

I'm also enjoying the show very much. To me, TV is so terribly overrun with reality shows about rich spoiled brats, poser bikers, cupcakes and fashion--- I'm still in mourning for Deadwood, so this miniseries is a treat for me. Love him or hate him, Thanks Kevin Costner for this one!
 
I watched bits and pieces of the first episode. Probably won't watch the rest. Too much senseless killings by a bunch of ignorant rednecks for me to stomach. Must be something better on TV. (I can only hope!)

Nothing good is on TV.
 
I am sure all the John Wayne and other Westerns movies were absolutely authentic down to every detail.

Actually, it's a product of the times. Westerns in the 50's and 60's were more romanticized and were criticized at the time for it by many film makers and purists. But Wayne's last movies appear to have made an effort to get more historically accurate - how could one argue against that in the "Shootist" ?

War movies of the era suffered the same. Compare "The Battle Of The Bulge" with "Saving Private Ryan". I don't think it's a bad thing that audiences are more discriminating about such these days. When I go to see an action hero jumping from skyscrapers and the US military fighting aliens I expect to suspend belief and simply enjoy it for what it is. But when I see a period movie depicting historical characters rendering an interpretation of a true story . . . yes, I like the technical details to be correct. I don't plan to nit-pick the clothes, weapons, or techniques used in the upcoming "Abraham Lincoln - Vampire Killer". I somehow think it's not exactly historically relevant in this case . . . :D
 
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Didn't some southern arms companies make Remington copies with a brass frame? I know they made Colt copies like that.
I've never seen a Confederate Remington copy of any sort.

RE: the aledged brass frame Remington, the South had several copies some with brass frames due to the lack of steel during the war such as Spillar and Burr, Rogers and Spencer, Dance and Brothers, Whitney, etc. All of these are reproduced today and available to movie prop suppliers.
Spiller & Burr and Dance revolvers were Confederate copies of Colt models. Whitney and Rogers & Spencer were thoroughly Yankee, being manufactured in Connecticut and New York state respectively. Again, I don't believe anyone copied an "army or navy caliber" Remington and used a brass frame until some Italian company did it in the 1970s.

But I don't know anything about the saddles and don't care. :)
 
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With all the comments about the guns, I'm surprised no one has brought up the issue of the kind of saddles used in the film, even depicting the Civil War years.:):rolleyes::D
Hey, this is a gun forum, not a horse lover's site. What do you expect?
 
I've never seen a Confederate Remington copy of any sort.
Spiller & Burr and Dance revolvers were Confederate copies of Colt models. Whitney and Rogers & Spencer were thoroughly Yankee, being manufactured in Connecticut and New York state respectively. Again, I don't believe anyone copied an "army or navy caliber" Remington and used a brass frame until some Italian company did it in the 1970s.

But I don't know anything about the saddles and don't care. :)

They were all more or less copies of Remington's solid frame design: Spiller & Burr - Google Search

What's a saddle?
 
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I have studied one western historical event as I am connected to each side of it. "The mountain meadows massicure".
Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A couple years ago there was a flop of a movie on it with Jon Voight. "September Dawn". While I found the movie interesting it didnt begin to cover the real facts. The main theme was about a romance that never happened---until now. A morman girl falls in love with a boy on the wagon train who gets killed by her own people in a massicure wipeing out about 120+ people on the train and the mormans let 16 kids live under the age of 8 as they figured they wouldnt remember the massicure.
I nor my wife are not morman. However when I retired, remarried, and my wife and I decided to move here at cedar city utah, my mother in law, (Theresa`s stepmother) informed us she was the great great grandaughter of john doyle lee. Lee was the only man to be exicuted for his role in the massicure! It happened about 40 miles southwest of cedar city. The cedar city militia and some local indians massicured the train.
There were many reasons it happened that is too lengthy to explain deep here, but it happened.
Two years ago Theresa`s daughter found a nice guy to marry. (His real name IS guy). Both familys met in california for thanksgiveing and the engagement party. My MIL and guys mother were sitting on the couch getting to know each other and found out guys mother was the gr, gr, grandaughter of one of those spared orphans! Truth is stranger than fiction!
 
Well, that'll teach me to rely on my infallible memory after three beers--I did not remember the Spiller & Burr was a solid frame design.

But, actually, without meaning to be argumentative, the S&B wasn't a copy of a Remington, but of the excellent Whitney. See Spiller & Burr Home Page

No argument, all I really knew about them is that they had the superior solid frame in brass and were made in such small numbers I could never afford one.

Definitely a brass frame Remington at least in one scene. one place in the 3rd part Anse has a holstered S&W #3.
 
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Well, I watched the first 2 episodes tonight and skipped the comercials-only took 3 hrs and 20 minutes. Will watch the final one Sunday. Pretty good for pure entertainment. not a real student of the feud so I can't tell how accurate it is or not.
 
Well it got fairly ridiculous tonight. I thought the first two nights were pretty close to what is generally accepted as the truth, as best remembered after 120 years. But tonight, merely entertaining with a fact thrown in here and there.
 
The last episode was the best for me. The Battle of Grapevine scene was impressive in that it wasn't a typical well-choreographed affair where everything went right. People tripped and fell, ran into trees, guns broke, most shots missed, people got left behind - pretty much what I would expect in a brawl between two disorganized and probably highly intoxicated groups of combatants.

As for accuracy, it seems to have followed actual events fairly closely.

Hatfield and McCoy Feud | Hatfield McCoy Country
 
fueding was a way of life here in ky and west virginia in that Period, of which the hatfield/mccoy got the most press,

you have to remember that these states where border states ( west Virginia was created due to this issue, because the appalacian people did not identify with the plantation/planter portion of the rest of Virginia) and families as dissplayed in the series often had siblings that fought on different sides resulting in long standing feelings of betrayal, much more so than some of the other states

my family had members who fought on both sides of the war, and that where involved in a fued known as the Lile/Wallace fued here on the green river, resulting in several deaths and cuttings.

wiskey was a way of life and commerce for the majority of folks of that period here in ky
and hard feelings, Guns and wiskey made for some heated difficulties during that period. where almost every man had both the gun and the liquor

issues where usually solved without aide of the law,

i lived on the farm where the first ky union casualty of that war was killed when the union army sent a platoon of soldiers here to get a local southern leaning neighbor, when they got here they found that his neighbors had came to his defence resulting in the first union soldier fatality in ky of the war, and the routeing of the union force that night

we are not that far removed from the period, with good oral and printed historys of the period

the picture below is a family photo and the old man in the white beard was a veteran of the csa army, a participant of the Lile /Wallace fued, a neighbor and friend to the Confederate General Simon Boliver Buckner,( the ky Governor) mentioned in the series, and the great grandad of the boy on the top row with the suspenders, who"s family he resided with in his old age, the boy was my grandad who i had the pleasure of knowing for the first 40 years of my life,
my 63 sharps carbine was a gun captured by the old man in the battle of stone river in murfreesboro tenn, he was wounded later in the same battle and brought the gun 80 miles north to his ky home to recuperate from his wounds, and it was told that it was used in the Lile/Wallace fued as well.

these Ky/west virginia hills were a place of swift and decisive action and some might even say they are today, people still end up dead after slights and the killers go unfound for decades, many being confessed on their deathbeds
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj55/kywonder/WindowsLivePhotoGalleryWallpaper.jpg http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj55/kywonder/oldguns2.jpg?t=1305300666
 
fueding was a way of life here in ky and west virginia in that Period, of which the hatfield/mccoy got the most press,

you have to remember that these states where border states ( west Virginia was created due to this issue, because the appalacian people did not identify with the plantation/planter portion of the rest of Virginia) and families as dissplayed in the series often had siblings that fought on different sides resulting in long standing feelings of betrayal, much more so than some of the other states

my family had members who fought on both sides of the war, and that where involved in a fued known as the Lile/Wallace fued here on the green river, resulting in several deaths and cuttings.

wiskey was a way of life and commerce for the majority of folks of that period here in ky
and hard feelings, Guns and wiskey made for some heated difficulties during that period. where almost every man had both the gun and the liquor

issues where usually solved without aide of the law,

i lived on the farm where the first ky union casualty of that war was killed when the union army sent a platoon of soldiers here to get a local southern leaning neighbor, when they got here they found that his neighbors had came to his defence resulting in the first union soldier fatality in ky of the war, and the routeing of the union force that night

we are not that far removed from the period, with good oral and printed historys of the period

the picture below is a family photo and the old man in the white beard was a veteran of the csa army, a participant of the Lile /Wallace fued, a neighbor and friend to the Confederate General Simon Boliver Buckner,( the ky Governor) mentioned in the series, and the great grandad of the boy on the top row with the suspenders, who"s family he resided with in his old age, the boy was my grandad who i had the pleasure of knowing for the first 40 years of my life,
my 63 sharps carbine was a gun captured by the old man in the battle of stone river in murfreesboro tenn, he was wounded later in the same battle and brought the gun 80 miles north to his ky home to recuperate from his wounds, and it was told that it was used in the Lile/Wallace fued as well.

these Ky/west virginia hills were a place of swift and decisive action and some might even say they are today, people still end up dead after slights and the killers go unfound for decades, many being confessed on their deathbeds
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj55/kywonder/WindowsLivePhotoGalleryWallpaper.jpg http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj55/kywonder/oldguns2.jpg?t=1305300666

"ky wonder" ~ That is one great story you posted above and if I could, I would have hit the like button many times over! I like the way you were able to explain in truth the attitude and way of life of the long gone inhabitants of that era and geographical location. I for one thank you for that!! With your permission, I would like to save, label, and keep the pictures you posted as my studies continue. Please e-mail me.

As a student of the War for Southern Independence and the era, I can truthfully stand up and say that this movie was nearly spot on historically correct. Even though I was a "both sides" extra in the shorter 1993 movie "Gettysburg" which makes me partial to it (yes, I got to meet the likes of Martin Sheen, Jeff Daniels and Sam Elliott), it doesn't come nearly as close to the "true story" as this movie did. Its very difficult to tell a story on the screen that lasted nearly a half century without throwing in non-historical pieces to fill in the gaps. If one reads about this particular feud, they will see that the movie is as close as possible to the truth aside from a few incorrect prop weapons. I give Costner / Paxton along with the entire cast, crew, and production a thumbs up and hope that more historical movies of this caliber keep coming in the years ahead.

BTW ~ I edited this post to add this link > http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...st-watched-in-history-report-says-1134375658/ . Its a great interview with Costner and Paxton on a leading news show that sort of gives an insight into the actors frame of minds and why they made the movie.
 
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PA,

Thanks for the added insight and the link.

"The American fabric is guns and alcohol"

"Kids with money and nothing to do"

Sad but true.
 
Hondo44-I have observed the same thing regarding PTSD, in fact, Kostner's character in "Open Range" was a textbook case of PTSD. The post Civil War era, and the subsequent move west was populated by people with the disorder that has been called PTSD since 1978. Think about the James Brothers for instance. My paternal Grand Dad had an ancestor who was a WV post master who had 4 nephews who came home on "leave" from the Confederate mounted cavalry, but without their horses, evidently because of shortages. When the visit was over, they robbed their uncle, shot four Yankee's for their horses, and went west, changing their names, and never were heard from again. There is supposedly a monument to the 4 Yankee's, and I probably saw it when I was a little guy, but I can't really recall it. As to the historical correctness , I find that younger people, more so than those a little older, don't see the need for accurate historical content because our educational system has moved away from giving history any real significance, and that's a shame. It is interesting to note that no Ivy League school has a core curriculum requirement for History credits. That's why we see these questionnaires where graduating seniors from these schools identify George Patton as being in the Civil War. It really is sad, because you can't tell the present or the future without a knowledge of the past. History just makes it so much mo0re interesting. I've enjoyed learning more from this discussion, thanks. Flapjack
 
I really enjoyed the series. Sometimes the actors were hard to understand, but since it was on the History Channel, I will watch parts again and pay better attention.

At the end of the final episode they kind of recapped most of the prominent family members. I guess you had to be a graduate of the "Evelyn Wood Speed Reading Course" to read it. By the time I read the name and date (remembered who the person in the movie was), I had missed info on each person. Oh well, like I said, I will just watch it again.
 
For some reason I didn't have a problem with the accents, born in Louisiana, south of I-10. Now my wife on the other hand, well that's a different story, born in Berkley and raised in Oakland. She would have to keep asking me "what did they say" and "how the hell can you understand them?" for the most parti thought it was pretty good.
 
I really enjoyed the series. Sometimes the actors were hard to understand, but since it was on the History Channel, I will watch parts again and pay better attention.

At the end of the final episode they kind of recapped most of the prominent family members. I guess you had to be a graduate of the "Evelyn Wood Speed Reading Course" to read it. By the time I read the name and date (remembered who the person in the movie was), I had missed info on each person. Oh well, like I said, I will just watch it again.

I missed the same thing, it zipped by.

You can watch it right here on you screen:)

Hatfields & McCoys — History.com Videos
 
"ky wonder" ~ That is one great story you posted above and if I could, I would have hit the like button many times over! I like the way you were able to explain in truth the attitude and way of life of the long gone inhabitants of that era and geographical location. I for one thank you for that!! With your permission, I would like to save, label, and keep the pictures you posted as my studies continue. Please e-mail me.

As a student of the War for Southern Independence and the era, I can truthfully stand up and say that this movie was nearly spot on historically correct. Even though I was a "both sides" extra in the shorter 1993 movie "Gettysburg" which makes me partial to it (yes, I got to meet the likes of Martin Sheen, Jeff Daniels and Sam Elliott), it doesn't come nearly as close to the "true story" as this movie did. Its very difficult to tell a story on the screen that lasted nearly a half century without throwing in non-historical pieces to fill in the gaps. If one reads about this particular feud, they will see that the movie is as close as possible to the truth aside from a few incorrect prop weapons. I give Costner / Paxton along with the entire cast, crew, and production a thumbs up and hope that more historical movies of this caliber keep coming in the years ahead.

BTW ~ I edited this post to add this link > 'Hatfields & McCoys' sets basic cable record as most watched in history, report says | Fox News . Its a great interview with Costner and Paxton on a leading news show that sort of gives an insight into the actors frame of minds and why they made the movie.
I am not sure the movie was particularly spot on historically. In the movie the combatants seemed to simply decide that there was too much bloodshed and that they were older, wiser and repentant. In reality the above mentioned Governor Simon B Buckner along with his West Virginia counterpart threatened to send in the militia because this feud was impacting tax generating commerce [the mining and logging industries].

Feuds were rare enough that they have names. If they were as commonplace as television has suggested there would be nobody left to mine and log the areas.

Here is the contemporaneous report from the Kentucky adjunct general.
http://kynghistory.ky.gov/history/3qtr/addinfo/hatfieldmccoy.htm
 
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