have a few question regarding an early smith & wesson 44 double action first model re

[mmaher94087]

superdave, Look down the cylinder bores. There should be two distinct rings about 2/3 the way down. These rings correspond to the bottleneck shape of the .44-40.

 

[mrcvs]

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.

These two photographs tell me this is a refinish, although the refinisher got much of it right, such as blued thumb release and trigger guard.

The extractor star would originally have been blued and the “softness” of the butt around the serial number suggests a refinish, probably not factory. But, is there a digit code under the stocks on the frame, such as 07.51, this signifying a possible factory refinish July of 1951.

Also, is there spacers inside the stocks?

 

[iby]

The 44-40 variant began circa 1886 so that should date the subject revolver.

 

[superdave269]

Good Idea. I reload the 44-40 so I know exactly what you mean by the bottleneck. I always thought of it as a 45Lc that had been wildcatted or necked down. I am convinced it's Frontier model. I will wait until tomorrow to break the news. BTW Dave knows his Father way over spent on it. He paid $3K years ago. Dave wanted to sell it to me for $1K. Now I don't so.

 

[iby]

Typically the 44-40 sells for more than the standard model
Cheer up

 

[superdave269]

mrcvs, Looks like I missed the post about the star not being blue. Thanks something told me it was refinished.
I don't have the stocks but Dave does. I'll tell him to look.

 

[mmaher94087]

"Sounds like it is not as old as we thought." All frames were made before 1899 and are antique. These revolvers were sold into the 19- teens but are all classified by the ATF as antiques.

 

[superdave269]

So 1886 not 1881 pretty darn close to what we though after all.

 

[Model19man]

I think given the excellent condition $1K is a steal for that one.

I wish we had the data on a 44 Russian that we have on the 44 WCF. It's clear that black powder loads back in the day had more pressure and velocity than anything a "modern" 44 WCF would have. And the stories about smokeless powder having a sharper pressure spike are clearly not supported by the data either.

Link: Chasing the 44-40 - Pressure Testing

 

[Alk8944]

Thanks iby, that is the factory letter. Good point about no 44-40 made in 1881. I see this type thing with re-barreled colt SAAs often. After doing a quick search the front sight looks to be the correct shape but taller than the ones on line. Did they offer different sizes to tune in POI?

The front sight looks just like my Winchester Model. You don't need to measure the cylinder, if it accepts a .44-40 it is a Frontier and has a 1 9/16" cylinder and is a 3rd Model, not a 1st K-frame round butt stocks fit this gun. Reproductions are available from N.C.Ordnance. Pistol & Revolver Grips Made by NC Ordnance


If it is SN 302 it is still a very early gun for the model. The Frontiers were all completed before 1900, but were catalogued until 1915. My memory is this model was introduced in 1888. I'm too tired to look it up, but I have had mine since 1963 and have done a lot of research on it!


BTW, my gun has original, real factory MOP stocks with Gold medallions. As I recall I was originally into it for @5 or $35.


If anyone is going to reload for this gun be extremely careful. Over pressure loads will stretch the barrel latch making the barrel loose.

 

[Kinman]

Beautiful revolver, for a grand I'd be on that like the proverbial duck on a junebug.

 

[iby]

da 44-40

I am not as quick as some to pronounce a gun refinished unless blatantly obvious.
I have 2 DA #3's in original condition
The ejector stars are not blued. Both are in the white
FWIW

 

[mrcvs]

Mine has a blued ejector star and a search on the internet, with much reviewing of sites, reveals one photograph depicting the face of the cylinder of a nickel New Model No 3, and the ejector star was blued on that one as well.

Maybe some were blued and some “in the white”, depending on when manufactured?

 

[BMur]

Replacement part

I also believe the factory blued the ejectors.
The one part that is often damaged is the ratchet teeth. To repair this condition is simple. Replace the ejector. A replacement ejector would be in the white. Early Major distributor catalogs clearly show every part available. They swap easily.

This gun was restored professionally. More photos would prove it. Part of a quality restoration would be to install a new undamaged ratchet/ejector to sharpen the action. No brainer.

Murph

 

[iby]

I also believe the factory blued the ejectors.
The one part that is often damaged is the ratchet teeth. To repair this condition is simple. Replace the ejector. A replacement ejector would be in the white. Early Major distributor catalogs clearly show every part available. They swap easily.

This gun was restored professionally. More photos would prove it. Part of a quality restoration would be to install a new undamaged ratchet/ejector to sharpen the action. No brainer.

Murph

You have quite an imagination
Maybe post one of your originals with the blued star

 

[iby]

Mine has a blued ejector star and a search on the internet, with much reviewing of sites, reveals one photograph depicting the face of the cylinder of a nickel New Model No 3, and the ejector star was blued on that one as well.

Maybe some were blued and some “in the white”, depending on when manufactured?

Ian
Are you looking at NM 3's or earlier?

 

[BMur]

Original Finish?

Wow iby,
I guess I struck a nerve.
Here is one of the best “Original Factory Nickel Finish” NM3 I have ever seen.
Take a deep breath, relax, and look closely at the photos of the finish. Notice the wear patterns, notice the location of finish loss, notice the “Blued” ejector.

This is an excellent example of surviving original factory finish.

Very rare to find one like this.

However, it’s very common to find a quality restoration.
It is also “Very Common” to find replaced ejectors because like I mentioned???? They are very often damaged!!! That’s a fact!!

Or is this my imagination??

Murph

 

[444 Magnum]

This one made 1905 shipped 1910. Extractor is blued. Front sight looks like OP's. My pistol has the caliber designation on the barrel left side, OP's does not.

Here is a picture comparing the extractor from the 1905 manufactured model with the extractor from a model made in 1886. The 1886 manufactured pistol had the external parts re-nickled, but not the internal parts. Notice that neither the extractor rod nor the star appeared to be blued. This is a very early one...who knows?

 

[mrcvs]

It appears there is no conclusive evidence whether or not ejector stars were originally blued all of the time or just some of the time. But it’s obvious that this did not occur none of the time.

Irrespective of this, from the photographs provided it appears, IMHO, that the OPs revolver has been refinished.

 

[deadin]

Just checked my Frontier.... Blued extractor.

It shipped to Monkey Wards in Chicago in Dec 1900 (serial #11808)
I traced the original owner ( I got the gun from a granddaughter) and family history has it hanging on a peg in a chicken coop somewhere either in the Dakotas or Eastern Montana in the early part of the 1900's. Needless to say it is somewhat "finish compromised", but is still mechanically as tight and crisp as when new......