Have you ever had to draw your weapon for self defense?

[Denverd0n]

Believe that if you wish, but the responding officer(s) generally cannot initially tell friend from foe, so they are likely to treat all as foes. It's just the world in which we live.

No, it's really not. There are numerous states where open carry is legal. If some hysteric calls 911 and starts screaming about a man with a gun, the cops usual first question is, "Is he doing anything wrong? Anything threatening?"

Often that ends it right there.

If it doesn't, and the cops come out, they all know that the person with the gun might be a completely peaceful, law-abiding citizen who just happens to be carrying. They may be a little more alert than usual as they approach him, but they are NOT going to put him down on the ground without a better reason than, he is lawfully carrying a firearm.

This is not just speculation on my part. I have a relative who is an LEO in Arizona, where open-carry is legal. I have friends who live in other states where open-carry is legal, and who routinely carry. The cops in those states do NOT throw down on people, and prone them out, for nothing more than legally carrying a firearm!

 

[Autonomous]

If only that were always true.

 

[jmace57]

I had a knock on the door at 9:30 one night. I grabbed my Model 19 nickel and held it just behind my hip when I answered it. There were two late-teen boys there. I asked them if I could help them with something.

They started looking at each other - I could tell trying to decide whether to go ahead with the home invasion they were planning. I brought the revolver out and put it against my front leg and asked them again if I could help them. They ran off as fast as they could. (they would have had to come up stairs at me, and I could have responded if I had needed to) That's the only time.

 

[375hh1973]

You mean that "banjo music" look?

Had that predator look. Not quite a squint.

6th sense was screaming at me, GTFO.

 

[mtgianni]

The first time was as a Reserve Officer in the SD. We pulled over a car and had information that one of the occupants had a warrant from the FBI. We both went hot with revolvers and circled the car. 15 minutes later, about 1:00 AM the dispatcher told us the Feds had cancelled the warrant, just forgetting to let the locals know about it. No one was happy that morning.

 

[adwjc]

Weapon vs Firearm

It's funny to see the reference to NRA language preferences when they name their most popular courses as follows:

NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course,
NRA Basics of Person Protection Outside The Home Course,
NRA Defensive Pistol Course and
NRA Basic CCW

The object of each course after mindset, is generally use of a gun.

 

[Smoke]

No, it's really not. There are numerous states where open carry is legal. If some hysteric calls 911 and starts screaming about a man with a gun, the cops usual first question is, "Is he doing anything wrong? Anything threatening?"

Often that ends it right there.

On Halloween morning 2015 three people were shot in downtown Colorado Springs by a man with a rifle.

Apparently, 10 minutes before he started shooting people had called 911 to report him and were told that him walking down the street with a rifle in his hand was a legal and no cops were coming. in

In 2020 I was working at FedEx one night and I saw a guy walk down the street in front of the warehouse with a rifle in his hand.

I decided not to call the police because again, what he was doing wasn't illegal and he wasn't on FedEx property.

The FedEx shift manager was just coming to work at that time and saw the guy and he told me to call the cops. So I did.

The dispatcher initially told me that no cops were coming because the guy wasn't doing anything illegal.

I asked her how that worked out for them the last time they tried it and she got pissed. But she told me again no cops were coming.

The weird thing is, 10 minutes after I got off the phone with her 5 cop cars converged on our front gate looking for the guy.

I never saw him again and I have no idea if they caught him or not.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I prefer to keep my handguns concealed for stealthy reasons. If a bad guy decides to rob the establishment I'm in I don't want him to take me out first. Odds are if they were just stealing money I'd just be a good witness anyway, but I don't want my hand forced.

BTW, I gave my 442-2 a rest, 9mm ammo is a lot cheaper lately so I'm back to carrying my 940... I had forgotten how nice that little revolver is.

 

[Imissedagain]

In almost four decades of outfitting boats with electronics, when leaving the vessel in the night, a gun was in my hand.
Owners would ask why, and I would reply, the evil doers most likely have a weapon in their hands.
Some yards and marinas were dangerous at night.

 

[Autonomous]

I don't blame you. Not just desperados but organized theft rings prowling Florida boat yards and marinas too.

 

[Muss Muggins]

So I want to clarify, Oklahoma is an open carry state. Are you saying that you would prone out somebody that you saw just minding their own business with an openly displayed firearm in a holster. You'd prone somebody out for an absolutely legal activity?

True story bro, I would have your badge and a fat settlement check before that one was all over.

You might want to Google Sorensen V Colorado Springs

$23,500 to be exact . . .

Subhead | News | gazette.com

 

[shawn mccarver]

Remember what Sam said in Ronin: "No, but I hurt someone's feelings once (or three times)"

 

[azhobo]

Re: Had to draw?

Yes once, many years ago. Forced to draw and fire. No dogs involved. Lotsa paperwork followed.

 

[drcotlar]

What come to mind is the need to carry the sort of liability insurance that covers attorney and court costs in the event of a shooting. Even in the event of a justified shooting, as appears to the case you describe, it is likely the shooting will go to court. For me it helps eliminate unnecessary hesitancy in a situation where I need to defend myself, through that theory has yet to be tested.

 

[Mainsail]

Believe that if you wish, but the responding officer(s) generally cannot initially tell friend from foe, so they are likely to treat all as foes. It's just the world in which we live.

I believe it because it's true.

One guy bought his & hers motorcycles with his settlement money.

I took home a fair amount myself.

You see, there's a difference between speculation and experience.

 

[S-W4EVER]

... You see, there's a difference between speculation and experience.

Funny, after eleven years I transferred to a more (then-) conservative area of the State and became quite comfortable interacting with armed Citizens. I believe the more armed Citizens there are, the safer the Community is that you serve.

 

[BarryinIN]

Drew on a guy once. I walked in on break-in at the apartments I was living in at the time. He didn't care for me being there and turned towards me with the crowbar he had just used on the door.

Was about a twitch away from drawing one other time. A panhandler/mugger who was clearly trying to maneuver around me and my family to strike.

Had my hand on the gun butt a few times passing by the Charlois bull while crossing the pasture.

 

[gfors]

Working as a bartender, when I was a 20-something, with no formal firearms training and zero handgun experience (although I did have a subscription to Soldier of Fortune magazine) and very little impulse control, a guy with a bloody chef's knife tried to come behind the bar. We had an S&W in a cigar box, under the register. By the time I had the gun in hand, the guy with the knife was very close to me, maybe 6 or 8 feet away. Holding the revolver (I think it was probably a Model 36), with both hands, front sight right between his eyes, "Take one more step, and you're a dead man." He froze. "Put down the knife". He did. Everyone else, in the bar cheered and clapped!

As he turned and started to leave, 2 more guys came running in, one of them dropping the first guy, with a flying drop kick (ala All-Star Wrestling). Then the police showed up. Turns out, the first guy had pulled the knife on the other 2, trying to rob them. They managed to turn the knife on him. It was his own blood on the knife, and he was trying to get away from them, seeking refuge in the bar.

When all the dust settled, my boss asked me why I didn't just shoot the guy. After all, he had a huge knife, and was well within its striking distance. It very likely it would have been seen as a justifiable shoot, but I thank God every day that I didn't pull the trigger. To be clear, if dude had made even the slightest move, in my direction, I was ready to disconnect his brain stem.

I like to think that, maybe, the knife-guy re-evaluated his life choices, and became a model citizen. At the vey least, he was afforded a second chance.

 

[Old cop]

A little off topic but illustrative of today's political climate: A county officer in my state is on trial for involuntary manslaughter b/c he shot an unarmed man. Circumstances were the suspect stole sunglasses and was being chased from a shopping mall by the officer. He stopped, facing the officer and was digging into his waistband or pocket after the officer repeatedly warned him to show his hands. The officer drew his weapon & warned the suspect again, but he came out with was later determined to be a cell phone and was killed by the officer. I'm not sure if it was dark, or dusk, but I think the case is over a year old. I'm glad to be retired and am trying to talk my 24 y/o grandson out of being a cop.

 

[John Patrick]

A little off topic but illustrative of today's political climate: A county officer in my state is on trial for involuntary manslaughter b/c he shot an unarmed man. Circumstances were the suspect stole sunglasses and was being chased from a shopping mall by the officer. He stopped, facing the officer and was digging into his waistband or pocket after the officer repeatedly warned him to show his hands. The officer drew his weapon & warned the suspect again, but he came out with was later determined to be a cell phone and was killed by the officer. I'm not sure if it was dark, or dusk, but I think the case is over a year old. I'm glad to be retired and am trying to talk my 24 y/o grandson out of being a cop.

I wish I was on that jury. The worst result would be a hung jury.

 

[Autonomous]

I'm glad to be retired and am trying to talk my 24 y/o grandson out of being a cop.

IMO if he chooses that path, he studies ethics, psychology and tactics beyond what the academy offers.

Read people, know when and how to deescalate and how to survive if things go wrong.

There are so many videos online of cops not respecting citizens civil rights that would not exist with better training.

 

[John Patrick]

A little off topic but illustrative of today's political climate: A county officer in my state is on trial for involuntary manslaughter b/c he shot an unarmed man. Circumstances were the suspect stole sunglasses and was being chased from a shopping mall by the officer. He stopped, facing the officer and was digging into his waistband or pocket after the officer repeatedly warned him to show his hands. The officer drew his weapon & warned the suspect again, but he came out with was later determined to be a cell phone and was killed by the officer. I'm not sure if it was dark, or dusk, but I think the case is over a year old. I'm glad to be retired and am trying to talk my 24 y/o grandson out of being a cop.

On my way home I heard on WMAL that this is a Fairfax County, VA case. Disgusting.

I live in MD in the Bethesda/Chevy Chase area.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Several times , no dogs involved.

 

[Old cop]

IMO if he chooses that path, he studies ethics, psychology and tactics beyond what the academy offers.

Read people, know when and how to deescalate and how to survive if things go wrong.

There are so many videos online of cops not respecting citizens civil rights that would not exist with better training.

You do realize that many of these videos have been edited to reflect a particular view of cops?

 

[Autonomous]

Yes. Do not take my comments as being anti LE.
A lot of the 'auditors' are real asses but too many LE are ignorant of the constitution and unnecessarily aggressive. Otherwise, the videos would not flourish.

 

[Super Trucker]

A little off topic but illustrative of today's political climate: A county officer in my state is on trial for involuntary manslaughter b/c he shot an unarmed man. Circumstances were the suspect stole sunglasses and was being chased from a shopping mall by the officer. He stopped, facing the officer and was digging into his waistband or pocket after the officer repeatedly warned him to show his hands. The officer drew his weapon & warned the suspect again, but he came out with was later determined to be a cell phone and was killed by the officer. I'm not sure if it was dark, or dusk, but I think the case is over a year old. I'm glad to be retired and am trying to talk my 24 y/o grandson out of being a cop.

Even 30 years ago a cop shooting an unarmed criminal was not Ok.

Should the criminal you posted about go to jail, yep.
But death over stolen merchandize, and scaring a cop, come on?

I don't know the details, was the criminal 100% mentally able to make a good decision? Meaning not deaf, on drugs, understand English, etc?
Again I wasn't there, but the info you posted tells me there should be an alive criminal in jail.

There absolutely should be penalties for killing people that shouldn't be killed, I mean that isn't a political climate thing, it's just being a decent human.

 

[Super Trucker]

I wish I was on that jury. The worst result would be a hung jury.

This thinking is why we have the distrust of LE we do today. If they were held accountable for their actions we wouldn't see these stories so often.

I'm trying to think of when killing an unarmed criminal would be acceptable.
I'm coming up short of examples.

 

[BC38]

Yeah, LEOs should always be required to wait until an uncooperative criminal actually FIRES a weapon at them before they respond with deadly force.

Assuming that what a fleeing criminal suspect is pulling out of their waistband is a gun is completely unreasonable. Ergo, NOT waiting for the fleeing criminal suspect to actually fire a weapon at the responding LEO, before the LEO uses deadly force to neutralize the perceived threat, is clearly murder.

LEOs should be required to give fleeing, and uncooperative criminal suspects the benefit of the doubt - up to and including letting them take the first shot - before they use deadly force.

After all, that is only fair, right?

NOT!

I was always taught that I should comply with the orders of LEOs, and, if they were wrong, to address that issue later. If I'm running from the cops, refusing to obey their commands, and then pulling "something" out of my waistband, that just seems like I'm asking to get shot.

From everything I have seen, criminal suspects who COMPLY with commands issued by LEO's virtually NEVER get shot. Arrested? YES. Arrested unjustly? Sometimes. Shot and killed? NO. Are LEOs just trigger-happy cowboys LOOKING for an opportunity to shoot someone? NO. 99.999% of them just want to serve their community and make it a safer place.

I've yet to see a case of a compliant criminal suspect who was summarily executed by a LEO in the last 50 years. But, if anyone has actual documented cases of that happening, then please, enlighten me. Because I haven't seen it.

 

[John Patrick]

On my way home I heard on WMAL that this is a Fairfax County, VA case. Disgusting.

I live in MD in the Bethesda/Chevy Chase area.

This thinking is why we have the distrust of LE we do today. If they were held accountable for their actions we wouldn't see these stories so often.

I'm trying to think of when killing an unarmed criminal would be acceptable.
I'm coming up short of examples.

Really easy for me.

The criminal doesn't listen to police officer commands, doesn't reveal his hands, continues to reach for, search for and grab something in his pocket, and draws it out.

The police officer was - and should have been - in fear of losing his life. It is unreasonable to require the police officer to wait to verify with certainty what the criminal is drawing is or isn't a gun or other weapon. Waiting to verify with certainly is waiting to be shot.

Prosecuting the officer in this or similar cases teaches the criminals they do not have to listen to police commands even after they've been caught.

It also teaches police officers or potential future officers that the State's Attorney (Commonwealth Attorney in VA) will prosecute them despite a very reasonable fear of losing their life, and so seriously discourages retention and recruitment and discourages officers from doing their jobs as well.

Wonder why crime has skyrocketed?

 

[petepeterson]

From everything I have seen, criminal suspects who COMPLY with commands issued by LEO's virtually NEVER get shot. Arrested? YES. Arrested unjustly? Sometimes. Shot and killed? NO. Are LEOs just trigger-happy cowboys LOOKING for an opportunity to shoot someone? NO. 99.999% of them just want to serve their community and make it a safer place.

I've yet to see a case of a compliant criminal suspect who was summarily executed by a LEO in the last 50 years. But, if anyone has actual documented cases of that happening, then please, enlighten me. Because I haven't seen it.

Have you seen any videos starring Daniel Shaver?