Help: 38-55 reloading for an early '94.

[Malpasowildlifer]

My step-father just inherited an early Winchester model 1894 in 38-55. It is a rifle with a full octagonal barrel. I've been told it is an early one, especially since the barrel does not say nickle steel. Thus, it has to be loaded with black powder or low end smokeless powder loads.

I read a Duke Venturino article and other writings that said the bore sizes were all over the place for 38-55 and can run from .375 to .380 (or larger?)

Anyways, Mom and my step-dad said they'd pay for components for it as I'm stocking up on other ammo and components and the election is getting close.

I don't know how to slug barrels, don't have the stuff to do it, don't know anyone that does and don't know anywhere to take it.

Based on the above, can anyone say with certainty what size bullets it'd like, or does it need to be slugged? And if it would take "long" or "short" brass?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Inusuit]

I have an 1893 Marlin in .38-55. Mine is very accurate with quality hard cast .375 and moderate smokeless loads. It was made in 1904.

Since Winchesters may, or may not, have had variations in bore diameter, the only way you will know about yours is to either slug the barrel or try different diameter bullets to find what it likes. I will bet there are YouTube videos on how to slug a barrel.

I am unfamiliar with "long brass/short brass," but I'm ignorant in other ways as well.

 

[oger]

You must slug the the bore just use a soft lead slog that is a little bigger the the bore and drive it through the bore mike the result. Size you cast bullets .001 bigger at a min. You should use the long brass that is the size of early 35-55s but someone decided it needed be shorter in later years.

 

[Harrison]

I have two 38-55 rifles, and have been reloading that cartridge for over 10 years. I also shot 38-55 in single shot schutzen matches.

Back then the factories used almost pure lead bullets, usually anywhere from 1:40 to 1:20. Loaded over a charge of black powder these soft bullets would expand to fit the bore, even an over sized bore. Probably you would be best with a softer bullet in .378 or .379. The early winchester's used the longer brass. I believe the shorter brass came about in rifles chambered after WW2. Some modern rifles still take the longer brass, if they are chambered according to the original specs.

If nothing else, a load of 10-11 grains Unique, over a 245-260 gr. lead bullet is an accurate and low pressure 38-55 load.

For that old rifle, without it having a nickle steel barrel, I would be very careful shooting smokeless powder loads, or jacketed bullets. You are safer with softer lead and black powder.

 

[Hang-Fire Hank]

SLUGGING THE BARREL...

Malpaso:

...isn't too difficult. Find a lump of pure lead (muzzle loader friend/shop?) that's somewhat larger than the muzzle opening. Clean the barrel thoroughly to be sure any old lead build-up is removed (brass brush, not stainless, & Butch's Bore Shine). Dry the barrel. With the rifle vertical & something under the butt to keep it from harm, place the slug on top of the muzzle & use a leather-bound hammer (protects the muzzle) to pound it down flat. Have a dowel rod or coated cleaning rod (protects the rifling) to pound it the rest of the way down & out of the chamber.

Using a caliper, measure the minor & major diameters of the slug. The largest (major) diameter (or a thousandth over) is the width of the bullets you should order. The difference between the two dimensions is the groove depth. Could be 4 to six thousandths.

Good Luck!
Hank M.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have an early Winchester 1894 in 38-55 , it was shipped in 1897 . IT does not say " smokeless powder " on the barrel . I contacted Accurate Powder co , explained what I had and that we needed to match smokeless powder to black powder in velocity and pressure . They were VERY helpful , quickly recommended AC 5744 , which I had on hand . He gave min and max loads in accordance with black powder .
Mine shoots bullets sized .379 . I sized one .380 and made a dummy round ( no powder or primer ) it wouldn't chamber . The .379 just did so that is what I shoot . I just tumble lubed them as I did not have a lube/sizer die at the time . That worked very well . Maybe this has helped you . I'm sorry I don't remember the loads and I'm not home this weekend but if you call accurate they will give you min and max loads . Good luck ,and have fun .
BTW: The mold I bought from Lee , 2 cav for about $25 . Works just fine .

 

[da gimp]

If you shoot any of the old Winchester lever guns a lot, there is a wonderful huge old reloading manual for every cartridge that was ever chambered in the antique Winchester levers (& single shot rifles too I think) called "Winchester Lever Legacy" by Clyde "Snookie" Williamson.

It lists many different bullet weights & styles, from cast, cast with gas checks & jacketed using many smokeless powders & a few black powder loads too... for all the antique Winchesters, using Clyde's collection of rifles & those of his friend to develop the loads.

The loads for the .Winchester 1886 .50 Express takedown, were developed using Clyde's antique deluxe 1886 takedown .50 Exp.. a rifle that is easily worth $40,000 to $50,000. This manual is well known amongst serious antique rifle fans is the best source of data that there is for them. I paid $75.00 for ours on FleaBay back in 2000... they are still available there or on Amazon... maybe even could be bought cheaper...

 

[rockquarry]

Unless you really know what you are doing, might be best to avoid slugging the bore. Instead, gamble and try to obtain at least a sample of the largest diameter soft bullet you can find, plainbase or gas check. This will be somewhere around 250 -280 grains. Load it with a minimum charge (black or smokeless) according to the Lyman manual or other published data that shows mild .38-55 loads. Don't use internet or other questionable data without verifying against reputable published sources. Seat bullets to recommended overall length for the .38-55 (might have to vary this a little).

If the cartridge will chamber okay, it should be fine. You could have a rifle that needs a .375" bullet, but I'm guessing something on the order of .379" would be a better fit and shoot more accurately.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Cowboy Action type ammo will also be a factory ammo that is safe in your old '94. This ammo is loaded with soft lead and often has a hollow base to expand to take the rifling. I have loads for an old '94 (that belonged to a late friend) using .379 bullets, these won't chamber in any of my modern 38-55's.

Any gunsmith can slug your barrel for you! If you call in advance, they should be able to do it while you wait. They just drive a round ball down from the muzzle with a rod, then measurer it with a good dial caliper or micrometer.

The normal bullet weight for lever actions is 255 & 265 grains, depending on gas check.

Accurate 5744 and IMR Trail Boss are two great powders to use and loading data is on their web pages! Black Powder loading is far more complicated than smokeless loading, at least to get ammo that works for more than a few shots at a time. If you would like details, PM me anytime.

My best 38-55 performance has been with a 2005 production Winchester High Wall (1885) using Bear Creek Bullets over Trail Boss. back in 2006, Using a Lyman tang sight and front globe I put several (10) in a dime sized group at 100 yards. That was off a rest and rear bag and the velocity was only about 800 fps, but it is still a great group! None of the lever actions have shot that good for me. Bear Creek Bullets are pure lead and powder coated so they don't get lead fouling in the barrel. They have several diameters and a few weights available, and ship everywhere!

The longer brass is only important if you are shooting Black Powder, the .085" difference is expensive! Always crimp in the groove on lever action ammo (in single shot ammo it isn't necessary).

If I can be of help, just PM me.

Ivan

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

Copy, thanks everyone.