OP
Judgesherpa
Member
No markings at all under grips on flat part of frame
pretty clean there too...
pretty clean there too...
Help ID this pristine firearm
- Thread starter Judgesherpa
- Start date
OP
Judgesherpa
Member
The fourth # matches too
(the one only visible with latch raised)
(the one only visible with latch raised)
OP
Judgesherpa
Member
![IMG_1485[1].jpg](https://cdn.smith-wessonforum.com/attachments/226/226741-724d36b6b9cf42f0aff6fa7887b5d1ff.jpg?hash=76JMar_7PE)
OLDSTER
Member
Really nice, and welcome to the forum from North Dakota 
The numbers are all sharp, the case colors perfect, the gun looks new. I am no expert, but I'd like to see an expert evaluate the revolver in hand. Please send for that letter.
Regardless of the outcome, you have a very neat looking gun and one that any collector would love to own. 
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A very nice example, and highly unusual if it had Target sights from the factory. A letter as mentioned above and a careful in-person examination by a knowledgeable collector or dealer familiar with the model would confirm matters. Enjoy!
One fact you can always take to the bank is that the guns that left the S&W factory in the 1800s were literally perfect. That gun does not meet the inspection criteria of the era. Your pictures show light brushing of the metal and not a high polish of the era. The trigger guards were case hardened and almost all fade to grey over time. Yours is deep blue with the same brush marks. The sideplate still shows dishing quite clearly. No change in my opinion on a refinish.
You made one observation that is interesting to me and that is the long cylinder with the early serial number. S&W historian Roy Jinks, states the change from short to long cylinder was around 30,000 and your gun is just over, but there has been evidence the cylinder was transitioned at a higher number, BUT no big deal, since the frame of that revolver could have sat in an inventory bin for a very long time before being built.
You made one observation that is interesting to me and that is the long cylinder with the early serial number. S&W historian Roy Jinks, states the change from short to long cylinder was around 30,000 and your gun is just over, but there has been evidence the cylinder was transitioned at a higher number, BUT no big deal, since the frame of that revolver could have sat in an inventory bin for a very long time before being built.
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![IMG_1485[1].jpg](https://cdn.smith-wessonforum.com/attachments/226/226758-ba24b87daa0e53dbd34404dd32755458.jpg?hash=7upshsafmy)
DWalt
Member
For sure, it is not a .44 so that makes it certain to be a NM #3 Target. Can you determine if the bore is .32 or .38? I'd expect that at that SN the cylinder would be shorter, but anything is possible. At least to me, it does not appear to have an original factory blued finish. Or a factory reblue. Getting it lettered is strongly advised.
I think this gun is not chambered for .44 Russian. I believe it is a NM#3 Target and is either .32-44 or .38-44. It falls near the end of the SN range for the NM#3 Targets and has the short housing, single line address, longer top strap and long cylinder. The start of these features is given at SN 3644 in the SCSW, 4th. This gun with SN 3079 would now be the earliest known gun with those features. The SCSW also states that only 689 targets with these features were made in total between the two calibers.
Judge, if you have a micrometer, please measure the bore of the cylinder chambers.
Judge, if you have a micrometer, please measure the bore of the cylinder chambers.
That measurement is taken from the front of the cylinder. The possibilities are 32, 38, 44, 45, along with some other rare calibers not listed here.
Give us the best guess you can of the bore diameter.
It is either a .32-44 or .38-44, I cannot accurately distinguish with photo. Try a .38 Special (only for diameter ... do not shoot it should it fit ). If the .38 fits it is likely a .38.44. If the .38 is too big it is likely a .32-44. It could also be one of the less seen smaller calibers like 320 RR or .32-20 Winchester, etc. ... only a letter from S&W will be able to verify the caliber it had been manufactured in.
Only thing bothering me now is the single line barrel address. LIFT the clasp to look into the barrel Recess. Clean with a Q-tip if dark in there. Grab a picture of the SN in there.
Toward the end of production the single line barrel address was the newest style with some of them actually roll stamped with the Caliber. That's another subject we won't get in to as to why S&W felt they should not stamp the caliber on most of their early guns.
Also, a picture of the frame flat s under the grips.
We'll get you narrowed down to a few more precise possibilities or "the" actual accurate determination.
Jim Watson
Member
Charge holes sure look like my .38-44 Target.
OP
Judgesherpa
Member
I will get that measurement this weekend. And the pic under the grips. I'll include the fourth serial #.
The # in the barrel recess under the latch is clean and bright, and is the same # as the other three locations, and just as crisp.
This piece spent many years in Back Bay Boston, and before that probably in Cambridge, Ma. That is where we originated from after taking the boat over...but I have no clue when it came into our family. My great great may even be the original purchaser..?
Also, we are not a gun family...which is interesting. My Mom hated guns.
My Dad was Army in Korea and Nat Guard for ever after..
Master Sargent I think, or is it Sargent Major.. what ever, a bunch of stripes over and under..
The # in the barrel recess under the latch is clean and bright, and is the same # as the other three locations, and just as crisp.
This piece spent many years in Back Bay Boston, and before that probably in Cambridge, Ma. That is where we originated from after taking the boat over...but I have no clue when it came into our family. My great great may even be the original purchaser..?
Also, we are not a gun family...which is interesting. My Mom hated guns.
My Dad was Army in Korea and Nat Guard for ever after..
Master Sargent I think, or is it Sargent Major.. what ever, a bunch of stripes over and under..
Those stripes are chevrons and rockers. Master Sergeant (MSG) has three over and three under. So does a Sergeant Major (SCM), except the Sergeant Major has a star in the middle. There is also a Command Sergeant Major (CSM) and a Sergeant Major Of The Army. It is a high rank for an enlisted man to achieve, so you might want to find out . . .
The gun has been refinished. As noted earlier, the latch posts are blued---should be in the white (as should the entirety of the muzzle----muzzle and rib----which has yet to be shown)----never mind any other typical refinish clues which may be present. The trigger guard also appears to be blued---should be case hardened.
The Russian style trigger guard was definitely an option. I own the (Duffy) gun (noted above) pictured in N&J (page 190), and it letters right down the line----including the trigger guard (the spur of which is checkered).
Ralph Tremaine
The Russian style trigger guard was definitely an option. I own the (Duffy) gun (noted above) pictured in N&J (page 190), and it letters right down the line----including the trigger guard (the spur of which is checkered).
Ralph Tremaine
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OP
Judgesherpa
Member
Hi
38 S&W caliber
38 S&W caliber
OP
Judgesherpa
Member
Also, any idea on the value?
I took it to a gun smith today to get the caliber.
He said it does not look refinished.....? Not sure what to make of that, since the majority here deems it is based on enlarging my photos...?
I took it to a gun smith today to get the caliber.
He said it does not look refinished.....? Not sure what to make of that, since the majority here deems it is based on enlarging my photos...?
You joined our group only a few days ago. Even as such, some tenured, experienced S&W collectors took you in as if you were an old time home boy. No less than 5, vigilantly studied and experienced S&W antique collectors (excluding myself) have responded to you honestly and above that ... factually. You must understand you asked for our honest evaluation. You have been provided such. That it may not be what you wanted to know, or different than you previously thought .. it is the truth served very gently to you. No one is dogging your gun nor your misconceive evaluation. It's still seems like a nice piece but it "is" what it "is".
You're New Model 3 Target .38-44 "is" ... without a doubt ... a refinished gun.
HOWEVER, in .38-44 caliber and "IF" it is mechanically excellent, meaning tight, crisp, hammer stops are correct and clean, no shakiness, tight lock up and no cylinder slop, with good or better rifling ... AND ... all the numbers match (frame, cylinder, barrel latch and barrel where number is visible in the recess of the rear barrel end with the latch raised), it may fetch up to $1500.00. Perhaps a tad more if someone wants it bad enough.
Once refinished every negative feature is harshly judged. Your cylinder axis pin is ground flat ( buzzer noise ), the sanding and polishing is a bit rough (more buzzing), the vertical posts are in color instead of white as is the barrel crown and front forward upper rib end. No doubt with a hands on, physical examination it will show more evidence of same.
Had it been a S&W factory refinish it could have fetched about $500 to $1000 more but yours is most surely not a factory refinish. It seems to be a decent, practical, utilitarian grade refinish but not anywhere near that of a restorative quality refinish.
If your smith thinks it has not been refinished, ask him if he wants to buy it. You won't find another smith worth his salt to tell you that is anything but a refinished New Model 3. More than likely he his just inexperienced in antique firearms. That would be an excellent finish if it were on a late WWII Hi-power or end of war Nazi luger or Beretta.
If a 32-44 and 38-44 is in 95%+ original condition ( preserved in the condition it left the factory when new) it could bring up to $5,000 in today's market.
For it to be worth any more than that, it would have to be ANIB, being absolutely drop dead gorgeous and stone cold "new" condition. Then it might fetch a bit more. Other than a ANIB exemplar showing up (which would be an extreme rarity for us S&W Antique collectors), what is quoted above is the top of the rainbow for your specific New Model 3.
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